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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I don't care at this point. Sure, go for Quinsberry, I don't feel like swapping votes to another plan over that.
 
Wow, the edit on the leading plan is kind of weird especially for such a big part of the plan... Can't help but feel it could be abused by editing a plan at the last minute.

[X] Plan Compromise + Verenans
 
Yeah, I'm not okay with editing a plan with 40 voters without warning. Name voting, or a plan named "Redshirt's Opinion" would be one thing, but changing a plan where the whole point is it's put together to appeal to everyone, after people have voted for it, and without an "objections please" period is something else entirely.

I don't care about the change, but I do care about the principle:

[X] Plan WEB-MAT All-In
[X] Plan Stacking Advantages, Windherd Edition
[x] Plan: Waystone scrutiny, payments promised and Wind herding
[x] Plan: Hugo Bann is the man.
[X] Plan Compromise + Verenans
[X] Plan Quinsberry Compromise
[X] Plan Starting up debt free, Windherd Edition
[X] Plan Pickle's Political Protector Proposal

(I really hope windherding doesn't end up losing after all this)
 
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I guess I'm thinking a few things on this.

First, the EIC is going to be way out of their usual areas, so I don't think we'll get anything from them besides having the Hochlander in the area, as was mentioned before. I don't think a trading company is going to help us with looking through the woods the way, say, the hedgewise would, so it seems a bit of a waste to have them helping something we've already got Mathilde on personally, rather than doing something elsewhere.

And there's a lot of new money rattling around in the pockets of crafters who have been strictly limited as to materials for centuries. We want to increase ties with the empire, that is more important than doing a favor better for the jade patriarch.

As far as the library goes, I don't want to snub the halflings. Putting them off, treating them as obviously less important than the dwarves and humans- I think that's the sort of thing they are sensitive to, from what I know, and I'd like to head it off. So it's three-fold objectives: smooth over potential political issues, support the halflings in K8P, and bulk out our connection before talking to venerians.
 
kingreaper said:
I don't care about the change, but I do care about the principle:
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Changing plans has been part of the quest for a long time though, and overall I think it's been a good thing to have the ability to do. Fair enough in regards to wanting an objection period, but personally I would say this post counted as one.

Redshirt Army said:
At this point I'm open to having the library action be either Verena, Tilea, or Quinsberry.

If a solid argument or a bunch of people with a strong preference for any of those choices comes up, I'd be willing to adjust (or not adjust, in the case of Verena.)
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Thomasfoolery said:
Changing plans has been part of the quest for a long time though, and overall I think it's been a good thing to have the ability to do. Fair enough in regards to wanting an objection period, but personally I would say this post counted as one.
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That doesn't feel like a "HEY, EVERYONE! I might change what the leading plan says if no-one minds, so let me know if you have any objections." as much as a "my opinion is swayable" to me, and I don't feel like the two should be treated as the same thing.

I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong, and I'm pretty sure it's not against the rules (like, say, editing in your own version of the plan in an earlier post than the plan's originator) but it's not something I'm personally comfortable with in this context - clearly there are quite a number of voters who picked the compromise plan and disagree with the change, and I don't feel like it's right that any voters who don't happen to notice that the plan they voted for was changed before Boney decides to close the vote are stuck with whatever Redshirt decides to change it to.

With that change being made I can no longer trust that Redshirt won't suddenly go "Hmmm, I don't actually want to windherd, I'd rather have Egrimm learn to fly the gyrocopter" - and if I can't trust that, I can't vote for a Redshirt plan.

So yeah, it's not something that I'm okay with. Not saying that you're wrong for being okay with it.
 
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Ugh.

I specifically made a post where I solicited opinions on what to do with the library section of the plan, in order to give fair warning in case I decided to change it, because I didn't feel that it was an important part of the original plan but wanted to make sure that a lot of people wouldn't be upset if I shifted things.

Redshirt Army said:
I'm still open to altering that, since library purchases are a pretty minor aspect of the plan.
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I then waited three hours, and didn't get the sense that the change would be controversial during that time. I do apologize to anyone that I inconvenienced with this, but I did think I gave fair warning.

I won't be making any future changes to the plan going forward.
 
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I was asleep during that three hours, and I would have objected to the change if I was there, if that mattered. Now that I'm awake and the plan's already changed because I was asleep during the whole process, I don't feel like I care enough to object too strongly, but if I was present I would have objected.

I'm not changing the plan I'm voting for because I don't like to shift too much, but that is my perspective on it.
 
I was also not actively on the present-day thread during those 3 hours, and when catching up I missed the
Redshirt Army said:
I'm still open to altering that, since library purchases are a pretty minor aspect of the plan.
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While I try and keep up with thread chatter during a vote I often wind up skimming - and it didn't particularly stand out.

Redshirt Army said:
because I didn't feel that it was an important part of the original plan but wanted to make sure that a lot of people wouldn't be upset if I shifted things.
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I'm of the opinion that if something is significant enough that you want to change it, it's necessarily significant enough that you shouldn't change it (unless something huge has happened that means you have firm reason to believe everyone will agree with the change, or you actually have a consensus of the voters to make that change).

Not saying that you have to agree, or that you've done something immoral or unethical - but personally I'm not going to be comfortable voting for your plans because I rely on the plans staying unchanging barring extremities.

EDIT: Tone - I'm tired, and this is probably coming across as more aggressive than I intend it. Just trying to explain my position, not trying to convince anyone that they've done something wrong.
 
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[X] Plan Pickle's Political Protector Proposal
[X] Plan Stacking Advantages
[X] Plan Compromise

Would prefer protector or gambler, but oh well.
 
In other news, I'm happy. Why?

This is the first turn vote planning where the Top 3 plans are all using different faces of the Coin (Night Prowler, Gambler, Protector).

The Gambler is a very strong effect, but I'm glad we've gotten to the point where it's not immediately obvious what face should be used.
 
Codex said:
In other news, I'm happy. Why?

This is the first turn vote planning where the Top 3 plans are all using different faces of the Coin (Night Prowler, Gambler, Protector).

The Gambler is a very strong effect, but I'm glad we've gotten to the point where it's not immediately obvious what face should be used.
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I find it funny that the first time this happens is after we get a fifth face, so there are still two faces not in the running :p
 
I appreciate redshirt being open to discussion and argument about the minor elements of the plans. Getting one of two in a plan with a good shot at winning is enough for me to approval vote it-

[x] Plan Compromise

[X] Plan Quinsberry Compromise

[X] Plan Fire Beats Ice (Compromise variant)
 
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K von Carstein said:
It was Cadaeth (who is from the ward of frost) who approached us for the project. Not inviting them for it would be unpolitical.
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Cadaeth invited Mathilde to the Project in her capacity as the Queen's ambassador to Middenheim, not as a representative of the Word of Frost. She's obviously strongly in favour of it being done but there's no indication that she'd be offended if she's not the one doing it.

picklepikkl said:
FWIW, I support recruiting Adela as our pilot, since she already has the engineering background for it. @Boney, I assume this would require a personal action? If so, I'd support doing that next turn when our Overwork is available.
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This could be done as a WEB-MAT action. Added:
[ ] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (optional: specify who) (NEW)

Apologies in advance for possibly complicating the current debate about editing votes.
 
Boney said:
Cadaeth invited Mathilde to the Project in her capacity as the Queen's ambassador to Middenheim, not as a representative of the Word of Frost. She's obviously strongly in favour of it being done but there's no indication that she'd be offended if she's not the one doing it.



This could be done as a WEB-MAT action. Added:
[ ] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (optional: specify who) (NEW)

Apologies in advance for possibly complicating the current debate about editing votes.
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It's fine. You have a lot on your plate, and the quest is getting more and more complicated as the scope gets bigger. It's understandable if things get lost amidst all the options.
 
Boney said:
Cadaeth invited Mathilde to the Project in her capacity as the Queen's ambassador to Middenheim, not as a representative of the Word of Frost. She's obviously strongly in favour of it being done but there's no indication that she'd be offended if she's not the one doing it.

This could be done as a WEB-MAT action. Added:
[ ] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (optional: specify who) (NEW)

Apologies in advance for possibly complicating the current debate about editing votes.
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Well, if anybody's interested in swapping it in... :V

[X] Plan Fire Beats Ice (Compromise variant)
-[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays gold costs.
-[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
--[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
-[X] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot: Adela (NEW)
-[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
-[X] Investigate Alric
-[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
-[X] LIBRARY: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Quinsberry)
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
-[X] COIN: The Night Prowler

[X] Plan Compromise
 
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I have to admit that as someone that does support the change I find the idea of changing plans mid-vote more than a little iffy.
Apparently it's traditional, I guess I get that if you don't allow it it's difficult to update small parts of existing plans, but...I don't know. Some voters have already changed their votes over it, and though I assume for most pepole the Library vote isn't the issue that will decide their vote the whole point of a vote is that posters can tell you their preferences and you don't have to assume.

I'm a newcomer to the thread and I haven't read most of the discussion posts in its thousands of pages, so I imagine this issue came up before. Is there something resembling a consensus on this issue? Is there word from the QM on it? Can't there be some system in place to notify voters in event of a plan change? Maybe a post pinging them and informing them of it?
 
mathymancer said:
I have to admit that as someone that does support the change I find the idea of changing plans mid-vote more than a little iffy.
Apparently it's traditional, I guess I get that if you don't allow it it's difficult to update small parts of existing plans, but...I don't know. Some voters have already changed their votes over it, and though I assume for most pepole the Library vote isn't the issue that will decide their vote the whole point of a vote is that posters can tell you their preferences and you don't have to assume.

I'm a newcomer to the thread and I haven't read most of the discussion posts in its thousands of pages, so I imagine this issue came up before. Is there something resembling a consensus on this issue? Is there word from the QM on it? Can't there be some system in place to notify voters in event of a plan change? Maybe a post pinging them and informing them of it?
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There has been discussion on this before and Boney has said something on it before. I've been searching for it for a while but I cannot for the life of me remember the exact wording and SV's search function is not being helpful.

I believe it was along the lines of "When making a plan make a summary of what you are planning to do with it/what the broad strokes are and if you decide to change something later on see if it still follow the initial focus to decide if it should really change". Or something like that. I'm hard paraphrasing cus it's been a little while. I do think it was in the Author's Notes of an update, but there's 270 of them so it's not exactly that easy (I can narrow it down further by going through only the plan voting updates but that's still hefty).
 
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