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[X] Plan Stacking Advantages

[] Plan Starting up debt free seems to have the Gambler coin twice. Shouldn't that be not possible or am I missing something here?
 
[X] Plan Stacking Advantages

[] Plan Starting up debt free seems to have the Gambler coin twice. Shouldn't that be not possible or am I missing something here?
It's applying the Gambler to the laying the foundations action, and then at the end is noting that the face of the coin being used this turn is the gambler.

It could be phrased more clearly (having the bottom line be "-[ ] COIN: The Gambler") but it's not trying to use the coin twice.
 
My concern at present is that we have no priestly participant yet, while the Ranald family plot hook dangles right in front of us simultaneously.

We can't merely trace the steps of the original Waystones and expect to get anywhere far - too much knowledge has been lost. We have to be able to come at it from an oblique angle, to bring in new tools and techniques for analysis and engineering both that can do jobs for which the original methods are beyond us.

I haven't kept up with the thread, and I can tell this is one of those times where aim just not going to actually catch up, but I wanted to put the thought out there in case somebody else hadn't. Hopefully it's more than dead weight. :V
 
I like the field trip plans , but I'm worried about putting Egrimm in a position where he can directly sabotage his old boss.

[X] Plan Stacking Advantages


[X] Plan Compromise
 
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[X] Plan Pickle's Political Protector Proposal

For now this is the one that I prefer most. Primarily because it doesn't involve Johann going with us to investigate Alric. I'm fine with Horstmann being operational support, but I genuinely do not see what Johann can do for us in that respect. He is not an operational support kind of guy. Maybe if we were planning to steal stuff from Alric's room and giving it to Johann so he can Breach the Unknown or Tale of Metal it, but I don't think we're doing that.
 
[X] Plan Pickle's Political Protector Proposal

[X] Plan Stacking Advantages

Good with either.
 
[X] Plan Pickle's Political Protector Proposal
[X] Plan: Jyn+debt free
[X] Plan Stacking Advantages
[X] Plan Starting up debt free, Windherd Edition
 
@Boney This question is purely out of idle curiosity so feel free to give me a non-answer if you'd like. Was there anything about Triton in the books we got on Minor Dieties? Does he count as a minor diety or is he just considered a servant of Manaan and isn't really venerated all that separately like Clio and Scriptisisi tend to be?

Triton is a bit of a weird one. It feels like they made him to look intimidating on Warhammer maps out on the sea rather than actually exploring him as an entity. There are very few mentions of him acting out, aside from that one time he appeared before Magnus.
 
[X] Plan Pickle's Political Protector Proposal

For now this is the one that I prefer most. Primarily because it doesn't involve Johann going with us to investigate Alric. I'm fine with Horstmann being operational support, but I genuinely do not see what Johann can do for us in that respect. He is not an operational support kind of guy. Maybe if we were planning to steal stuff from Alric's room and giving it to Johann so he can Breach the Unknown or Tale of Metal it, but I don't think we're doing that.
I know Johann has been memed to death as a blunt instrument by the thread, but if you'll recall, he successfully fooled Mathilde into thinking he was a Journeyman until the Bursar gave the game away. He has 19 Intrigue. Dude's a certified sneaky bastard.
 
I know Johann has been memed to death as a blunt instrument by the thread, but if you'll recall, he successfully fooled Mathilde into thinking he was a Journeyman until the Bursar gave the game away. He has 19 Intrigue. Dude's a certified sneaky bastard.
That's not enough. We're looking at a Magister Patriarch of the Light Order and a three time Supreme Patriarch whose age is in the three digits. If you don't have any supernatural methods of stealth inherent in your sneaking, I wouldn't want to bring you along.

If he's not coming along, then Learning is where it's at, and Johann's specialty is not deductive thinking. His specialty is figuring things out in the middle of action.
 
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My concern at present is that we have no priestly participant yet, while the Ranald family plot hook dangles right in front of us simultaneously.

We can't merely trace the steps of the original Waystones and expect to get anywhere far - too much knowledge has been lost. We have to be able to come at it from an oblique angle, to bring in new tools and techniques for analysis and engineering both that can do jobs for which the original methods are beyond us.

I haven't kept up with the thread, and I can tell this is one of those times where aim just not going to actually catch up, but I wanted to put the thought out there in case somebody else hadn't. Hopefully it's more than dead weight. :V

I mean what priest do you propose? Somehow I do not thnk Ulric knows much of note and they are the best disposed imperial priests to the prohject right now.
 
That's not enough. We're looking at a Magister Patriarch of the Light Order and a three time Supreme Patriarch whose age is in the three digits. If you don't have any supernatural methods of stealth inherent in your sneaking, I wouldn't want to bring you along.

If he's not coming along, then Learning is where it's at, and Johann's specialty is not deductive thinking. His specialty is figuring things out in the middle of action.
He's got a silver tongue though. He doesn't need to be invisible, just charismatic. Being charismatic is something he generally shows great success in.

The thing that surprises me is that people aren't bringing more people along on the missions. The more the merrier as I see it. Having Johann and Egrimm along for going into the woods for example would be better than just having one of them along.
 
If you don't have any supernatural methods of stealth inherent in your sneaking, I wouldn't want to bring you along.
There are methods of subtle investigation other than literally sneaking around. Probably more useful ones in this kind of situation, honestly - if it comes down to "hide your actual physical self from an Alric who's on the lookout" I wouldn't even bet on Mathilde, for the same reasons you outlined re: he's terrifyingly experienced and his specialty is the Wind of Revealing Shit. I expect Johann (who also, note, has 20 Diplomacy and a demonstrated ability to use it subtly) will be distinctly helpful for the social portions of the job.

Related, since I realized I haven't actually voted yet:

[X] Plan Stacking Advantages

As much as anything 'cause I want my boy to get the respect he deserves. Yes, Gold Man Punch Good, but that's neither his only character trait nor the one I find most interesting.
 
He's got a silver tongue though. He doesn't need to be invisible, just charismatic. Being charismatic is something he generally shows great success in.

The thing that surprises me is that people aren't bringing more people along on the missions. The more the merrier as I see it. Having Johann and Egrimm along for going into the woods for example would be better than just having one of them along.
Mathilde can disguise herself as multiple different people and approach someone, figure something out, and then mindhole them to make them completely forget everything about her. Mindhole only works on people's memory of Mathilde, not people's memory of Johann. If Alric is savvy enough and he realises someone is asking around about him, he'll find out something's wrong. Mathilde can make sure he doesn't know anyone's asking for him, but not if someone else is doing the asking.
There are methods of subtle investigation other than literally sneaking around. Probably more useful ones in this kind of situation, honestly - if it comes down to "hide your actual physical self from an Alric who's on the lookout" I wouldn't even bet on Mathilde, for the same reasons you outlined re: he's terrifyingly experienced and his specialty is the Wind of Revealing Shit. I expect Johann (who also, note, has 20 Diplomacy and a demonstrated ability to use it subtly) will be distinctly helpful for the social portions of the job.

Related, since I realized I haven't actually voted yet:

[X] Plan Stacking Advantages

As much as anything 'cause I want my boy to get the respect he deserves. Yes, Gold Man Punch Good, but that's neither his only character trait nor the one I find most interesting.
I considered the social aspects. I point you towards my conclusion on Mindhole not working on people's memories of Johann. Unless Johann is so smooth that he can ask about Alric without ever making it look like he's asking for Alric, I don't trust it.
 
Unless Johann is so smooth that he can ask about Alric without ever making it look like he's asking for Alric, I don't trust it.
I unironically believe that he is capable of doing this, yes. Frankly I don't believe it'll even be that hard. Even if Alric is on the lookout for possible spies (which he may or may not even have the spare focus for, under the circumstances) I don't expect everyone around him is going to share in that paranoia.
 
Guys just because we cannot see diplo rolls does not mean they do not exist and I really do not think getting Thorek and the Grey Lords to actually cough up secrets to each other and not condescend is going to be an easy job. Remember how it went with Algard and Kragg when we made the tower, well I am betting Algard is a lot thicker skinned then the Grey Lords of Laurenlorn, since he has not had millennia at the peak of his craft.
 
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I unironically believe that he is capable of doing this, yes. Frankly I don't believe it'll even be that hard. Even if Alric is on the lookout for possible spies (which he may or may not even have the spare focus for, under the circumstances) I don't expect everyone around him is going to share in that paranoia.
No, but the people we talk to also talk to other people, and the more people still have memories of Johann the greater the chance one of them lets something vital slip within range of someone who is in fact paranoid about spies. A reminder that Alric is not acting alone, he still has a few loyalists working for him:
while Alric and his few remaining loyalists seem determined to fight to the last. And one unfortunate side-effect of Mira's early success is that now she and her supporters are left to keep the College operating normally while Alric is freed from those responsibilities and able to spend all his efforts and attention on seeking support.
And he's already been pushed out of Altdorf, Wissenland and Stirland. The man is desperate and likely to be on high alert, so I don't want to introduce additional variables that could result in failure, even if the failure isn't guaranteed.
 
The idea that Johann can help with the Alric investigation becaues he has high intrigue looks to me like a misunderstanding of what ability scores even mean. Those things are abstractions. Mathilde uses martial for both swinging swords and planning military campaigns, but that doesn't mean every character with high martial is both a warrior and a general.

Consider the capabilites we've actually seen Johann demonstrating - he's a decent liar and he's good at sneaking through enemy lines - those are very different thing from moving unnoticed in a friendly town. What do you actually see him doing in the course of the investigation? Having him go around asking people about Alric is ridiculous. A golden man with the molten eyes is a pretty memorable descripition, so if he's seen at any point by any one it will be trivial for Alric to figure out that one of Weber's people was there. Sneak into Alric's room? That's not the kind of sneaking he's good with - if someone sees him he can't pulverize them like he did when he was sneaking into a Skaven camp. Really, what's the plan here?

My concern at present is that we have no priestly participant yet, while the Ranald family plot hook dangles right in front of us simultaneously.

We can't merely trace the steps of the original Waystones and expect to get anywhere far - too much knowledge has been lost. We have to be able to come at it from an oblique angle, to bring in new tools and techniques for analysis and engineering both that can do jobs for which the original methods are beyond us.

I haven't kept up with the thread, and I can tell this is one of those times where aim just not going to actually catch up, but I wanted to put the thought out there in case somebody else hadn't. Hopefully it's more than dead weight. :V
Yes, I would very much like the recruit the Nordlander Hedgewise, an insular group that almost certainly worships Ranald's daughter, but otherwise don't seem to agree. Maybe next turn.
 
The man is desperate and likely to be on high alert, so I don't want to introduce additional variables that could result in failure, even if the failure isn't guaranteed.
Eh, I think this just comes down to a differing approach to risk/reward calculus then. IMO zero risk is an unachievable fantasy and would be unbearably boring if it wasn't, & I expect the gain from having a skilled partner will be more than sufficient to make up for the marginal increase in our chance of discovery. Think we just have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
@Boney This question is purely out of idle curiosity so feel free to give me a non-answer if you'd like. Was there anything about Triton in the books we got on Minor Dieties? Does he count as a minor diety or is he just considered a servant of Manaan and isn't really venerated all that separately like Clio and Scriptisisi tend to be?

Triton is a bit of a weird one. It feels like they made him to look intimidating on Warhammer maps out on the sea rather than actually exploring him as an entity. There are very few mentions of him acting out, aside from that one time he appeared before Magnus.

He's considered either an aspect or demigod son of Manann by the Cult of Manann, and any claims that he is a separate God in his own right is considered heresy.
 
It's funny to me how Manaan is this seemingly indifferent, uncaring god and you would expect his Cult to stay out of politics and be some sort of neutral force or something, but you look at their actions over the ages and they're a deeply political entity. Their suppression of opposing forces that could threaten their authority (Olovald, Stormfels although that's more justified etc.) and their involvement in the politics of Marienburg is quite interesting for a faction that I thought would attempt to be apolitical.
 
Hm, good point. I'll approval vote for:

[X] Plan Stacking Advantages
[X] Plan Pickle's Political Protector Proposal
I'm not sure if I understand your reasoning here. You agreed with a post that said windherding was better than Kurgan weapon studies and then voted for a plan with Kurgan weapon study and no windherding. Did you perhaps mean to vote for [] Plan Starting up debt free, Windherd Edition? Or []Plan Stacking Advantages, Windherd Edition?
 
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