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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Fayhem said:
My concern here is that the Grey Order memory-gates knowledge of the Skaven with magic, and only certain triggers will unlock it. So if we say this, then why wouldn't Starke's follow-up question be "what made you aware of the Skaven's existence before you headed to Karak 8 Peaks?" And then we're in the realm of pure invention.

[X] Trauma
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we can say that we "indirectly learned about the war underground from the head of the watch at the time, who originally assumed we were settling it up for that purpose"

no lie there
 
Ultrackius said:
we can say that we "indirectly learned about the war underground from the head of the watch at the time, who originally assumed we were settling it up for that purpose"

no lie there
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I think that cause needs to come before effect, though. So saying "we did what we did with the Watch because we found out about the Skaven after one of our hires reacted to what we already did with the Watch" seems problematic. Since that puts the cause coming after the effect, which is not how what one might term conventional causality works.

In addition, I'm dubious that the Porter doesn't know exactly what kind of thing works to magically unlock the Skaven briefing, so if the head of the Watch we hired referring to "the War Underground" didn't unlock the memories then that means that doesn't unlock the memories. Which the Porter would presumably know, since out of everybody in the Grey Order he's probably most likely to be directly involved in that memory-gating process in the first place. So then that explanation would fail the bullshit test with him even if we massaged causality to negate the previous issue somehow.

More generally, if Mathilde found out about the Skaven in Stirland, then based on what we've seen for what will trigger the memory unlocking, that would entail either coming across a Skaven plot and not reporting it, or somebody fucking with the Conspiracy of Silence.
 
[x] Other (write-in): Grief, but note that it certainly looks like Skaven would fit and such an explaination would paint the order in a better light.
 
[JK] Betrayal
-[JK] It was the start of my long con to gain Ranald's trust, which has recently culminated in him lowering his guard and revealing hidden divine connections. We can with some more effort use those to bring him to his proper place, subservient under Sigmar.

Meanwhile in this reality:

[x] Grief
 
Fayhem said:
I think that cause needs to come before effect, though. So saying "we did what we did with the Watch because we found out about the Skaven after one of our hires reacted to what we already did with the Watch" seems problematic. Since that puts the cause coming after the effect, which is not how what one might term conventional causality works.

In addition, I'm dubious that the Porter doesn't know exactly what kind of thing works to magically unlock the Skaven briefing, so if the head of the Watch we hired referring to "the War Underground" didn't unlock the memories then that means that doesn't unlock the memories. Which the Porter would presumably know, since out of everybody in the Grey Order he's probably most likely to be directly involved in that memory-gating process in the first place. So then that explanation would fail the bullshit test with him even if we massaged causality to negate the previous issue somehow.

More generally, if Mathilde found out about the Skaven in Stirland, then based on what we've seen for what will trigger the memory unlocking, that would entail either coming across a Skaven plot and not reporting it, or somebody fucking with the Conspiracy of Silence.
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I mean the earlier watch stuff, when we first recruited him he assumed we were fighting the war underground, and then later we tried to make it Ranaldian
 
Is there a standard model for quests like these? In regards to character skills, challenges, etc. I'm designing the start of a quest although I might never run it
 
Fayhem said:
I think that cause needs to come before effect, though. So saying "we did what we did with the Watch because we found out about the Skaven after one of our hires reacted to what we already did with the Watch" seems problematic. Since that puts the cause coming after the effect, which is not how what one might term conventional causality works.

In addition, I'm dubious that the Porter doesn't know exactly what kind of thing works to magically unlock the Skaven briefing, so if the head of the Watch we hired referring to "the War Underground" didn't unlock the memories then that means that doesn't unlock the memories. Which the Porter would presumably know, since out of everybody in the Grey Order he's probably most likely to be directly involved in that memory-gating process in the first place. So then that explanation would fail the bullshit test with him even if we massaged causality to negate the previous issue somehow.

More generally, if Mathilde found out about the Skaven in Stirland, then based on what we've seen for what will trigger the memory unlocking, that would entail either coming across a Skaven plot and not reporting it, or somebody fucking with the Conspiracy of Silence.
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"A dwarf mentioned them while working on my underground lair."
 
Total aside, but I recall waaaaay back when Boney said they weren't interested in Cathay because they'd have to essentially create a whole society from whole cloth for relatively little gain. Was this ever changed with the new Cathay lore from warhammer 3? I searched with the Cathay keyword but didn't really see anything. @picklepikkl

[X] Skaven
[X] Trauma
 
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Dragonofelder said:
Is there a standard model for quests like these? In regards to character skills, challenges, etc. I'm designing the start of a quest although I might never run it
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There's no real "standard" model, and many quest writers like to invent their own systems (and some don't have a system at all, being purely narrative with no mechanics or dice rolls). That said, this quest uses a variation of the popular "Crusader Kings 2" (or CK2) model, where characters have six stats (learning, martial, diplomacy, stewardship, intrigue, and piety) and various traits that modify those stats, and then adds the score to a 1d100 to determine the success of the action.
 
Codex said:
Whew, I'm done with finals, so it's DL time. The first thing I want to say is that I like the vibes I'm getting from the narrative lately @Boney. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it or not, but it sort of feels like you're experimenting with a bit of a new style? Or is it going back to an old style? This update felt a lot more introspective than many of the other updates, full of tangents that Mathilde goes on in regards to her wanderings and musings, as if her mind is constantly scattering all over the place but always withdrawing back to her head when she needs to while maintaining a facade of "I was always here". Incredibly relatable to the ADHD experience. I've always felt that each "arc" you've been making has a different vibe, from Stirland to K8P to Karag Dum and now Laurelorn, I'm not sure if it's intentional or notm but there is something about the writing, maybe it's just the setting, that changes the feeling I get from reading.
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It's not quite a conscious decision to adopt a new style, more the inevitable result of an extremely different story being told. K8P and Karag Dum were largely military Dwarven projects, which is an entirely different kettle of fish to deeply political R&D projects involving a lot of parties with different priorities.

Codex said:
I suppose what I'm saying is that the longer the quest goes on, the more fantastical the quest becomes, but that isn't to say that it's ever lost its grounded touch. There is still a deeply human element to the story even with all the bizarre magical and fantastic stuff that happens. All the characters feel like fleshed out, deep personalities with their motivations and desires, and that is what I love about the quest so much.
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The thread's been choosing the arcs, and the thread's been going for the big and the arcane. Things would probably be a lot more grounded if, say, Border Princess or Sylvanian Count were chosen and Mathilde had to focus on the responsibilities of governance.

Codex said:
Is this supposed to be guest of a Magister or guest of a Lord Magister? Seems like an overly fancy waiting room to provide for any visitor to a Magister.
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Magister. Magisters are actually less than 10% of even the magic-capable proportion of a College, and that ratio is even more skewed for the Lights.

Codex said:
Very neat worldbuilding, and not something I remember from the books. The books don't really go too deep into what the titles of the Light Order mean. I'm a bit surprised Elrisse doesn't have her canonical title of "Chanter". Maybe that's just a common title and not super notable, or maybe Boney is just making his own stuff, it doesn't matter all that much.

Only other thing I want to say is that the guy who started the Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels had the title of "High Luminary Horx", so there's that. I suppose spending all your time hunting down unsactioned magic users can lead you to think of what you could do if you had access to those forbidden secrets.
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Yeah, I've been working on fleshing out the various titles that get thrown around without ever being fully explained for the Light Order into a set of specializations. 'High Luminary' is said in some parts of canon to be the name for the Light's Magister Patriarch, but in others Horx is referred to it despite ever rightfully claiming the title and it never seems to be reliably applied to anyone else, so I've made it the highest Light Order Witch Hunter rank instead.

Codex said:
Alright, so I'm a bit curious. Before, Mathilde said: "Her tone is steady and well-enunciated and just short of being rhythmic, as though they had been hammered into place in an attempt to bulwark against the vagaries of the spoken word". Now, she mentions that Elrisse looks like she's concentrating whenever she's about to make an expression or reply, as if she's thinking of the best way to do it. This combined with the practiced nature of her speech as if she is warding away the wanderings of spoken language give me a bit of a neurodivergent vibe. Could be ADHD, could be on the spectrum. If I have time to prepare for a conversation, then I actually make a flow chart and consult it to concieve the best possible outcome and make sure that I'm not misunderstood. It's nice to see a character on screen working with a similar difficulty (as if she's consulting a mental chart on what best to say), even if it turns out she isn't ND.

It's possible that it's an Arcane Mark, albeit not one recorded on the books (custom Arcane Marks are a thing), but I'd like to think it's just something mundane she's working through. It's not like it's my most out there headcanon (that might be trans Mathilde).
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Something I think is important for writers to keep in mind with writing in historical and fantasy settings is that people with all of these 'modern' diagnoses still existed, they just didn't have any sort of help in dealing with them and had to figure out their own ways to interface with a society that wasn't built for them.

Codex said:
Is Horstmann a Bass, Baritone, Tenor or Countertenor or is his voice range even past that? Are Light Magisters restricted by human voice range?
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By the extremely scientific method of 'which singer would I associate him with' (Hansi Kursch in Nightfall in Middle-Earth) and looking up what they are: high baritone. The Light Order uses existing musical tradition as a framework so they stick to what we would understand, but some are capable of things like solo harmonizing.

Codex said:
This is just funny. Ah yes, Merchants, infamous for being just as bad as thieves, tricksters, spies and radical sects. I suppose from a certain perspective, they are.
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This is one of my favourite kinds of joke, it's funny from a modern perspective but true from an in-setting one. Merchants get rich without owning land or titles, which is considered by many nobles to be an affront to the natural order of things.

Dragonofelder said:
Is there a standard model for quests like these? In regards to character skills, challenges, etc. I'm designing the start of a quest although I might never run it
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This quest is a play on a common quest format called a 'CK2 quest', where the main character is a noble of a historical or fantasy region with stats and often traits based on Crusader Kings 2. Or Crusader Kings 3 more recently, I suppose. The general trend is that the quest is given a character or choice of characters that have just come into power, and there's usually an immediate problem to deal with, often related to what killed the previous incumbent.

Strange9 said:
Total aside, but I recall waaaaay back when Boney said they weren't interested in Cathay because they'd have to essentially create a whole society from whole cloth for relatively little gain. Was this ever changed with the new Cathay lore from warhammer 3? I searched with the Cathay keyword but didn't really see anything. @picklepikkl
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Not yet, since what's available is currently just snippets from marketing releases. That might change after the release of TW3.
 
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[X] Grief
[X] Trauma

Absolutely not willing to make a direct, complete lie within the bounds of the grey college to another lord magister.

Also, aren't there not actually Skaven under Wurtbad?
 
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Votes as they stand.
Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on Dec 13, 2021 at 6:43 PM, finished with 296 posts and 37 votes.
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