Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Alratan said:
I'm not sure there's any supposed here. Strong magic such as storms of magic weakens reality so spirits can act more freely, but that doesn't meant ghosts are aligned with any of the winds that forms a storm of magic, or with Dhar.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I was talking about it from a college paradigm and under that paradigm everything in the world material or physical is aligned with one wind or another.

Toothpick: Well if it is made of wood that is a remnant of Ghyan and if it is metal that's Chamnon
Oil Lantern: Well the body is metal, so Gold Wind again, the flame is Red and the light is White
Cute Hamster called Mister Snuggles: Well he is a beast so that is Ghur, but he does have a tendency to cause warm fuzzy feelings, that is the Red wind again :V

So where in that paradigm do ghosts fit to see if any of the colleges can steal their trick of speaking to souls, are they a natural manifestation of endings? I would maintain that they are not since ghosts are defined by the fact that they linger... so if they go against the natural flow of one of the winds what does that leave but Dhar?
 
Alratan said:
Has Boney said they were? Realms of Sorcery says that Teclis explicitly didn't recruit from the established legal Cults, as those with magical talent could already usefully (and legally) cast spells from the divine lores:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Boney said:
More than a little of what the Grey Order teaches can be traced back to Illusionists and the Hedgewise, rather than Teclis. And the Light Order draws on ancient philosophies of Tilea and Nehekhara, the Amethysts on Morrite lore, and the Brights on the fiery parts of Elementalism. The first students of Teclis were those that could be taught as quickly as possible to fight in the Great War Against Chaos, and they went on to be the founding members of the Colleges, so there's no 'pure' Teclisean teachings.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hmm. Possibly parts of the Cult of Morr that weren't legally sancitoned? At least, it seems difficult to reconcile Morrite Lore without involving the Cult of Morr in some way.
 
Last edited:
Just because Teclis did not specifically seek out priests of Mor to join the Amethysts does not mean none of them would have done so. It's been over a century since then, a century during which the draw of death magic to priests of Mor more interested in the power over death than dreams and such would have been obvious. I mean can you imagine what it would be like to refuse them.

Amethyst wizard: What you want to be a wizard? Get out of here you are just as useful as a priest
Priest: Guess OK then. I'll talk to the shady fellow in dark robes over there, see you at the next necromantic invasion
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
Just because Teclis did not specifically seek out priests of Mor to join the Amethysts does not mean none of them would have done so. It's been over a century since then, a century during which the draw of death magic to priests of Mor more interested in the power over death than dreams and such would have been obvious. I mean can you imagine what it would be like to refuse them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Doesn't Gretel worship Morr? Although that seems more of the reverse, much like how Mathilde follows Ranald as a fit for her magic.
 
[X] Order

[X] Preservation

These too work very well together, for order we need to come up with a system that will keep track of all the books no matter how many new ones are added. Preservation is more about how to build the place.
 
Last edited:
lancelot said:
[ ] Order
Despite the best efforts of librarians, practically every library eventually has to resort to The Stacks when the amount of books outstrips the ability to impose order on them. Every scholar has known the experience of delving deep into a maze of dimly-lit shelves many times their height in search of a volume that the library's records insist is in there somewhere. Seek from the outset to ensure that no visitor to your library ever suffers this fate.

[ ] Preservation

These too work very well together, for order we need to come up with a system that will keep track of all the books no matter how many new ones are added. Preservation is more about how to build the place.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You need Xs in the brackets to vote.
 
ReImagined said:
Hmm. Possibly parts of the Cult of Morr that weren't legally sancitoned? At least, it seems difficult to reconcile Morrite Lore without involving the Cult of Morr in some way.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Cult of Morr may simply have been far sighted and recognised that the Amethyst College could develop into a great ally or terrible threat to them, and opened their libraries and some of their outer mysteries to the members of the early College as a way of influencing it to develop in a way they found desirable. You can share lore without transferring people.

Or, another option, is that we know another Collegiate wizard who is aware of the inner mysteries of Morr's Cult despite never being ordained into it. They could have, for example, gained access to the knowledge by looting it from necromancers who hadn't had that section of their copy of the Liber Mortis redacted too much, and then laundered the knowledge as that's a much safer thing to admit to knowing than the bits about necromancy.

DragonParadox said:
I was talking about it from a college paradigm and under that paradigm everything in the world material or physical is aligned with one wind or another.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm not sure that's true. They recognise the existence of earthbound magic, divine magic and runic magic as other things that aren't affiliated with a Wind.

I think they also recognise that the soul isn't attuned with a particular wind unless mutations or arcane marks are involved.

I also don't think they necessarily believe that everything material is elementally resonant with a Wind, obsidian and lead are both called out as being magically inert or repulsive.

They recognise that most materials and mental states resonate with the Winds, but they recognise that it's not a perfect match.
 
Last edited:
Burned_Cookie said:
Paranoth: "Wait where does that road lead?"
*entirely new part of the planet*
Paranoth: "Oh shit, here we go again."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I have to wonder how him being the Patriarch of the Jade Order even works. According to Boney the people in his order usually don't know where he is at any given moment and they consider that normal. How is that supposed to work? What if you need to get him in a hurry? What about all the administrative work? Does he do it on the road, or does he just leave it at the hands of the LMs and he's basically an overpowered figurehead who comes back when it's a big deal to smash things and then go back on the road?
 
Codex said:
I have to wonder how him being the Patriarch of the Jade Order even works. According to Boney the people in his order usually don't know where he is at any given moment and they consider that normal. How is that supposed to work? What if you need to get him in a hurry? What about all the administrative work? Does he do it on the road, or does he just leave it at the hands of the LMs and he's basically an overpowered figurehead who comes back when it's a big deal to smash things and then go back on the road?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They are the order with the strongest continuity to a significant pre-Teclis organization. They could have some other internal ruling system and just hand off the patriarchship to someone who can be trusted not to try to make weird power plays with it and then govern themselves without them. Alternately, it may just be presumed that he's off on druid business somewhere (Which is, of course, more important that college business since it's even more traditional).
 
Pg 131 of Storm of Magic gives an... odd piece of lore. The page is the bestiary entry for the Fenbeast, which I originally thought was a creature normally only used by Albion casters. The page states however, that the Jade Order "famously maintains a score of Fenbeasts as drudges to fetch and carry for senior wizards, only maintained by the ceaseless chanting of several dozen apprentices".

This doesn't make sense to me. A score is around twenty. A dozen is 12 people. Several means more than two but not many. Why would you have the apprentices constantly chant to maintain a number of fenbeasts when you have more apprentices than fenbeasts and can just have them do the work themselves. Waste of manpower I tell you. Very inefficient.
Andres110 said:
Real magicians don't do paperwork and wizards are never late so distance from important problems doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
By this logic Algard isn't a real magician because he does paperwork. Unless you're making a reference that I'm not getting. I know the Wizards are never late is a Gandalf thing.
 
Last edited:
Codex said:
I have to wonder how him being the Patriarch of the Jade Order even works. According to Boney the people in his order usually don't know where he is at any given moment and they consider that normal. How is that supposed to work? What if you need to get him in a hurry? What about all the administrative work? Does he do it on the road, or does he just leave it at the hands of the LMs and he's basically an overpowered figurehead who comes back when it's a big deal to smash things and then go back on the road?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maybe he has illicit access to the Worldroots and uses them to zoom all over the place exploring new locales.

He checks back in with his Order every year or so to deal with administrative stuff, but the secrecy required to keep Athel Loren (or various other dangerous entities) from finding out means the Jades have to constantly invent explanations for "where" he's been, how he got there, whether or not he's actually been there, and sometimes pretend he isn't around at all when he genuinely is in his office, grumbling over budget forms.
 
Codex said:
I have to wonder how him being the Patriarch of the Jade Order even works. According to Boney the people in his order usually don't know where he is at any given moment and they consider that normal. How is that supposed to work? What if you need to get him in a hurry? What about all the administrative work? Does he do it on the road, or does he just leave it at the hands of the LMs and he's basically an overpowered figurehead who comes back when it's a big deal to smash things and then go back on the road?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is a lot more normal in the context of the time, though we're still far from free of it in the modern day. High-level roles usually didn't have a standardized list of responsibilities, they were given incredible amounts of latitude to decide what they'll oversee themselves and what they'll hand off to others and it was either just assumed they would use this power wisely, or it was deliberately set up that way so that the positions would become sinecures that could be handed out to cronies. One could argue that Paranoth is failing in his responsibilities by not personally overseeing matters, but one could also argue that Algard having to oversee everything personally is a sign of poor administrative skills and is wasting a lot of time of a highly-skilled Wizard on non-magical tasks. Or it might reflect a difference in the cultures and responsibilities of the two Orders.

Codex said:
Pg 131 of Storm of Magic gives an... odd piece of lore. The page is the bestiary entry for the Fenbeast, which I originally thought was a creature normally only used by Albion casters. The page states however, that the Jade Order "famously maintains a score of Fenbeasts as drudges to fetch and carry for senior wizards, only maintained by the ceaseless chanting of several dozen apprentices".

This doesn't make sense to me. A score is around twenty. A dozen is 12 people. Several means more than two but not many. Why would you have the apprentices constantly chant to maintain a number of fenbeasts when you have more apprentices than fenbeasts and can just have them do the work themselves. Waste of manpower I tell you. Very inefficient.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It might be a case of writing it because it sounded cool without thinking it through, but it might also be a case of 'famously' not necessarily meaning it's entirely accurate. It sounds like the sort of rumour that might spread and grow in the retelling.
 
Boney said:
It might be a case of writing it because it sounded cool without thinking it through, but it might also be a case of 'famously' not necessarily meaning it's entirely accurate. It sounds like the sort of rumour that might spread and grow in the retelling.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If I were to modify it so it seems more sensible, I think I would just say that the Jade Order is a magically inundated space so constant maintenance of the Fenbeasts isn't required, and there isn't a score of them, just a few. I would also maybe say that they are usually dormant and are only activated in times of import such as dealing with intruders. That seems more reasonable. It also would make sense if outsiders saw the Fenbeasts active at some point and the stories became exaggerated. That tends to happen a lot.
 
Alratan said:
I'm not sure that's true. They recognise the existence of earthbound magic, divine magic and runic magic as other things that aren't affiliated with a Wind.

I think they also recognise that the soul isn't attuned with a particular wind unless mutations or arcane marks are involved.

I also don't think they necessarily believe that everything material is elementally resonant with a Wind, obsidian and lead are both called out as being magically inert or repulsive.

They recognise that most materials and mental states resonate with the Winds, but they recognise that it's not a perfect match.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I am not sure about obsidian, but there is a spell called 'armor of lead'. i think they have that one covered. As for earthbound magics I do not see why they would not think those resonate with the winds or with one of the recognized exceptions, so a Divine Servant who used to be a living person is not a ghost and resonates with his or her patron, but that still leaves the question of what Jim from Stirland resonates with, it can't very well be the lore of Jim, he is not big enough to have an aspect of magic linked to him.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top