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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Dark_Prince said:
[x] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred

Cmooon, this is a chance to ensure an Emperor potentially even better then Karl Franz to stand against Archaon if he rises here. Not to mention it allows us to do all the other fun stuff in the Empire without getting tied to one or the other.
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If you want to improve defenses against chaos, the best method is waystones. For me personally the issue with doing fun stuff in the empire is that I dislike Heidi and would rather do fun stuff for Belegar.

Edit: Sylvania, Wissenland etc. all improve chaos defenses by removing/reducing the other threats, and while we can contribute to these as Bodyguard, they do require a full time commitment: which is why they are options to vote for.
 
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Talon TigerDino said:
More seriously, I highly doubt Edgelord does more for Ranald than the High Priestess position. Not only does HP smooth over a divine kerfuffle, which is a stupidly rare opportunity, but I'm pretty sure Kislev has way more warm bodies to convert than Sylvania. One's a country. The other's Sylvania.
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We were never going to be able to convert all of Kislev though.

Also I really want God of Sylvania/Protector shenanigans so me waking up to find the Waystone tie with it is over in favour of Waystones is sad :(

Although admittedly all the Waystone arguments have made me not so opposed to Waystones winning now so I can stop obsessing over this.
 
primemountain said:
5) And let's not forget why Sylvania became the way it is. You want to fight Rats? I'll bet you we'll be up to our tits in rats in clearing Sylvania. They can't stay away from all that tasty, tasty Warpstone. Which is another thing Mat is firmly suited to dealing with. Who else is an expect of fighting both Skaven and Undead?
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IIRC there is basically no warpstone left in Sylvania after a few centuries of Skaven and aspiring necromancers using it all up.

The rest of the post is still valid though
 
Darth. said:
We were never going to be able to convert all of Kislev though.

Also I really want God of Sylvania/Protector shenanigans so me waking up to find the Waystone tie with it is over in favour of Waystones is sad :(

Although admittedly all the Waystone arguments have made me not so opposed to Waystones winning now so I can stop obsessing over this.
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Everyone (well, almost everyone) in the empire worships Ranald, even if only a little when they really, really need a tiny bit of luck.
Getting Ranald into Kislevs pantheon of acceptable gods means that soon enough same will likely be true of Kislev.
Sylvania might have more need for protector, but even there i doubt most people will turn to Ranald as their main god.

No idea what the math on how much divine power each option turns into, but i think for advancing Ranald worship as a thing, if that is what someone is after, Kislev has lot more potential.
That said, while i am voting for neither, i think Edgelady is more interesting option.
 
Bodyguard is 5 away from taking first and im going to bed, hope yall pull this ahead because i genuinely believe that this is the option that makes everyone the most happy since we get a bit of everything and can most likely do mini turns like the Dum Expedition covering everyones option of choice, and we get to do it while helping out good old Ranald and interact with the Royal family
 
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Since all the cool kids are doing it:

Bodyguard > Markgraf >> Waystones >>>>> Loremaster-At-Large

I mostly just want Mathilde going somewhere other than the dwarves. We get so much cool passive descriptions and learn new things - both IC and OC - by going somewhere new!

Sylvania isn't super new, but it's better than more dwarves. And when we're done there, I'm sure we'll move on. But with the Dwarven options, if we don't choose to leave now, when will we? We'll be less and less willing to consider it the longer we're here.

This vote has been stressful for me not because I don't like Waystones or even being Loremaster all that much, but because it seems like it's a proxy vote on staying with the Dwarves for the rest of the Quest by default. I like the Dwarves, really! But I want to see other things too.
 
Interesting point I thought I'd bring up, since I don't think I've seen much discussion on it. Our current minions friends in K8P's are unlikely to follow us for several of the options, if that might influence your vote.

Currently we employ Max and Johann, and watch over the Ducklings. Max has his apprenticeship so anything outside of K8P's is off the table, but he might be available for helping with papers if we devote an action to it. Johann was originally there for Skaven warp tech, but we passed all that stuff along to his College. However, he did come along with us to Karag Dum so he might be up for adventures elsewhere.

The Duckling club are doing their own things. Herbert will follow the Winter Wolves and they would be guaranteed to join the Border Princess job. Gretchen we could hire the mercenary company she's with for a fair few of them. Adelia... dunno. She's doing nepotism stuff so she might be free in K8P's if we help her with that?

For the shippers among us, Mathilde's girlfriend, Panoramia is busy with the multi year project of getting the soil fertile enough in K8P's. She would be available for the Waystone project, since it would be based where she works, and I could see her also being partly available for the Border Princess job as it's practically next door to her home. Sylvania is a bit further away so I doubt she'll be there other than in winter. Even then, why would she want to spend her free time in a Dhar choked land when she can stay with Mathilde in her cosy cottage at K8P's or Mathilde's tower?

People have mentioned Egrimm a few times and we could try and grab him for a few of the options. Depends on his Patriarch letting him go. The impression I got was it would have to be something important for him to let Egrimm go. Waystones and Bodyguard would fit that category, Loremaster might since Mathilde could pitch it as improving dwarf relations with other Colleges or something like that. Sylvania already has a load of Battle Wizards roving through it so I doubt that would count? I could be wrong, though.

Finally, we come to one of the most important points. At K8P's we have our friend, and prospective love interest at one point in the quest, which I honestly found hilarious, Cython, the Ice Dragon of Hysh. They've been around for a very, very long time. They quite likely know more about magic than most elves and I'd imagine they would be quite happy to work on the Waystone Project with us if we asked. Hysh is generally opposed to Chaos more than the other winds and the waystones help with that.

I also want the scene where everyone gathers for the initial meeting in the Dragon room in Mathilde's tower and Cython flies in and joins them :V
 
Vebyast said:
Nobody's saying that Mathilde would be bad at it. However, IC, we have better things to do, and OOC, I think that other options would be more fun.

I'll begin by contesting your assertion that Mathilde is the only one that can make Sylvania functional and that this is an incredibly valuable thing for Mathilde to be doing. Roswita is already making major progress on Sylvania. That's why the job she offered us is even an option. Mathilde doesn't need to dedicate herself to the effort. I suspect that Roswita will keep making progress as long as Mathilde keeps a couple weeks open a year to smash vampires, which we've already been doing. I also think that the Empire does not need to expand any further - it's already internally divided, squabbling, and in places overextended. Further expansions will only cause problems. Taming Sylvania would be nice, but I'm not sure it's exactly the right time.

I'll continue by pointing out that the other options are far better uses of Mathilde's time. She's probably the single biggest contributor to the political relationship between the Karaz Ankor and the Empire since Sigmar himself. Continuing on that track is more valuable than anything we could possibly do to help Roswita do what she's already doing. The Waystone Project similarly promises to restart the Great Works of the Ancestor Gods and usher in a new Silver Age for the Karaz Ankor. The bodyguard project is the least impactful of the leading options, and that's because all it's doing is (narratively speaking) dramatically improving the chances that the next Emperor will be a Ranaldite and a Wizard-friend, with commensurate improvements in the stability of the Empire.

In conclusion, "important task that Mathilde is uniquely suited for" describes literally every option we've been given[1]. That's what the Lady Magister position means. On top of that, I think that the other options get more utility out of Mathilde's unique skillset.
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Let's start with "IC, we have better things to do". No, no we don't. We are, currently, deciding, IC, what Mat's "best thing to do" will be. Thinking that the other options are more fun for you is fine, but not really a selling point for others.

Roswita is done, and aware of it. That's why she's asking for a Markgraf. Because she can't keep doing it, she's the EC of Stirland and she needs to start doing that job. That's what it always comes back to. Trying to rule Sylvania from Stirland doesn't work. So someone who is not Roswita is getting the job, and if Mat doesn't take it, someone less qualified will. Because if she had someone more qualified, Roswita would have given it to them. Stirland remember? Look up the starting post, capable people hate going to Stirland. What will they think of Sylvania? Most capable sorts that go for it will go for it out of Personal Ambition or Zeal, and why those two are terrible ideas in Markgraf have already been explained.

As for the idea that reinforcing the relationship between the Karaz Ankor and the Empire is more important, that's your opinion. It's already a strong connection. There's an entire argument to be had on if it's better to polish the strengths of the Empire (Dwarven Aliance) or work on plugging the holes (Hello new Vampire War!). Obviously I fall on the side that we should be patching holes in our boat, not working on more cannon for the deckguns. We already have enough.

As for the Waystone Project, it must be preceded by such things as "Eventually, like in a few decades or so" and "if it happens to succeeded despite all previous attempts failing". That's the thing about the Waystone project. The best way to work on the Waystone project is to vote for the Waystone project. But Mat will only ever get one shot at getting it right and failure is both likely and its cost terrible, in wealth, time and lives lost. That's not a gamble I'm willing to take yet.

While every other option isn't best for the Waystone Project, it also isn't a commitment to it. So the progress and the connections we make for the Waystone Project are marginal, compared to working on it directly, but so are the risks. I do not want to fuck that up and I'm not feeling confident that the current Mat is up to the task. It's that simple. Is Mat Teclis? Is she Kragg? Because they failed.

The whole gamble of the current iteration of the Waystone Project is that the Eonir will be willing to share, and the Dwarvs will be willing to work with them, and hoping that if all that Diplomatic quicksand can be overcome, minds elder and more learned than Mat can solve the problem if they but work together. And even if you get them to work together, any solution will be on their timescales.

The best way to do the Waystone Project is to vote for it. The second best way is to take a Research Sabbatical so Mat can expand her own understanding of the world, before she tries to tackle the biggest, hardest puzzle on the planet.
 
Research gang! I would like to draw your attention to the following:

BoneyM said:
if you're like the Dark Lady and want to build a creepy tower, you can have the Iron Isle - it's the size of a city block
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BoneyM said:
I'll pay well, I'll give you whatever support you need, and if you want to get up to creepy Wizard stuff in your off hours, Nuln is used to that sort of thing."
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Now, Count Konstantin is not, strictly speaking, offering us dedicated research AP—he still expects us to do the spymistress job. But he will give us the opportunity and resources to spend personal research AP, and this "Iron Isle" sounds like a good place to build and establish a research institute.

I know Spymistress of Wissenland has fallen 100 votes behind the top four, but I've seen people concerned that Waystones, Markgraff and Bodyguard will be too much "all hands on deck" for personal research (at least in the early turns), and that Markgraff especially is not suitable for the research institute because of how much of a toxic wasteland Sylvania is. Nuln is very much not a toxic wasteland. It also avoids the "eggs in one basket" approach Altdorf has, and there's the Elementalists guild also based in Nuln, if I remember correctly, not to mention Elspeth von Draken herself. It also has a rich academic tradition in the form of the Engineers guild.

Honestly, if I had to pick one city in the Empire for an arcane research institute, it's Nuln.

Now Loremaster is also a suitable candidate for both personal research AP and a research institute (especially since we already have infrastructure in K8P), and it's also got a decent chance of winning, but if you wanted an Empire alternative with a dedicated foe who have been very fun to read about in the past (kill-slay the ratties, yes-yes!), then I recommend the Wissenland job.
 
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primemountain said:
As for the idea that reinforcing the relationship between the Karaz Ankor and the Empire is more important, that's your opinion. It's already a strong connection. There's an entire argument to be had on if it's better to polish the strengths of the Empire (Dwarven Aliance) or work on plugging the holes (Hello new Vampire War!). Obviously I fall on the side that we should be patching holes in our boat, not working on more cannon for the deckguns. We already have enough.
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The notion of plugging holes is why I and so many want to take Bodyguard. Because by the description we won't be fixing up a specific regions problems of everything possibly bad that could happen but bringing the problem down to levels where the regional leaders can handle it before moving on to next one. Why I like it so much because it will help more of the empire as a whole by plugging not one hole fully but patching up many at once, while still letting us have personal time to do research and such.
 
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Inspirit said:
Interesting point I thought I'd bring up, since I don't think I've seen much discussion on it. Our current minions friends in K8P's are unlikely to follow us for several of the options, if that might influence your vote.

Currently we employ Max and Johann, and watch over the Ducklings. Max has his apprenticeship so anything outside of K8P's is off the table, but he might be available for helping with papers if we devote an action to it. Johann was originally there for Skaven warp tech, but we passed all that stuff along to his College. However, he did come along with us to Karag Dum so he might be up for adventures elsewhere.

The Duckling club are doing their own things. Herbert will follow the Winter Wolves and they would be guaranteed to join the Border Princess job. Gretchen we could hire the mercenary company she's with for a fair few of them. Adelia... dunno. She's doing nepotism stuff so she might be free in K8P's if we help her with that?

For the shippers among us, Mathilde's girlfriend, Panoramia is busy with the multi year project of getting the soil fertile enough in K8P's. She would be available for the Waystone project, since it would be based where she works, and I could see her also being partly available for the Border Princess job as it's practically next door to her home. Sylvania is a bit further away so I doubt she'll be there other than in winter. Even then, why would she want to spend her free time in a Dhar choked land when she can stay with Mathilde in her cosy cottage at K8P's or Mathilde's tower?

People have mentioned Egrimm a few times and we could try and grab him for a few of the options. Depends on his Patriarch letting him go. The impression I got was it would have to be something important for him to let Egrimm go. Waystones and Bodyguard would fit that category, Loremaster might since Mathilde could pitch it as improving dwarf relations with other Colleges or something like that. Sylvania already has a load of Battle Wizards roving through it so I doubt that would count? I could be wrong, though.

Finally, we come to one of the most important points. At K8P's we have our friend, and prospective love interest at one point in the quest, which I honestly found hilarious, Cython, the Ice Dragon of Hysh. They've been around for a very, very long time. They quite likely know more about magic than most elves and I'd imagine they would be quite happy to work on the Waystone Project with us if we asked. Hysh is generally opposed to Chaos more than the other winds and the waystones help with that.

I also want the scene where everyone gathers for the initial meeting in the Dragon room in Mathilde's tower and Cython flies in and joins them :V
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For us, K8P and Sylvania can be practicly next door if we make a teleport tower.
And even without it, they are not exactly on the oppositesides ofthe world, it'll be a bit of a long range romance half a year atleast, but it's doable.
And being the problem solver for Markgraf of Sylvania who is also a Lady Magister is a big deal, even if there is a tonf of Battlemages already running around, because having a Lady Magister as a Markgraf is a very huge deal.
Would it be enough? Not sure.
But then it is not sure of any other option either.
 
picklepikkl said:
Maybe. It depends on who backs us and how. Boney said that deciding that is literally the first thing we'd do with the job.


I imagine Belegar would be extremely chill about showing results quickly, other dwarves (Thorgrim?) would be slightly less chill ("don't do a shoddy job, but it takes as long as it takes"), the Colleges significantly less chill (thinking in shorter timeframes than dwarves), and elves a complete mystery because who fucking knows with Eonir.

I really don't understand why you believe that "the effective ruler of half a province with a deep-rooted vampire and necromancer problem" is a job that can be done with a bit of murderhoboing in between other projects.

Here's the part where Rosie mentions that we're wrangling nobility and digging through financial records.

Here's the part where she mentions there will be conspiracies to root out.

Here's the part where she mentions we need to instill religion in the conquered populace, a task which is famously easily done.

Like, don't get me wrong. This sounds awesome. But it also sounds like a ton of work, and much of it is going to be done by wielding organizational power: the state, the EIC, holy orders, and so on. Not just by Mathilde getting a Dammerlichtreitersignal every six months, clearing out a den of cultists, and heading home for an early lunch and to give Wolf tummy rubs.
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...huh.

I wasn't actually all that interested in Markgraf, but this spiel has talked me into it, and persuaded me to drop Waystones to boot. And I don't even think you were trying to convince anybody!

[x] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[x] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
 
[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[X] Spymaster of Wissenland
[X] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
[X] Ranaldian High Priest of Kislev
[X] Border Princess of the Howling River

This is the exact same vote I made last time, I'm just voting again because I want the dopamine rush that comes from participating in democracy.
 
primemountain said:
Let's start with "IC, we have better things to do". No, no we don't. We are, currently, deciding, IC, what Mat's "best thing to do" will be. Thinking that the other options are more fun for you is fine, but not really a selling point for others.

Roswita is done, and aware of it. That's why she's asking for a Markgraf. Because she can't keep doing it, she's the EC of Stirland and she needs to start doing that job. That's what it always comes back to. Trying to rule Sylvania from Stirland doesn't work. So someone who is not Roswita is getting the job, and if Mat doesn't take it, someone less qualified will. Because if she had someone more qualified, Roswita would have given it to them. Stirland remember? Look up the starting post, capable people hate going to Stirland. What will they think of Sylvania? Most capable sorts that go for it will go for it out of Personal Ambition or Zeal, and why those two are terrible ideas in Markgraf have already been explained.
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We are specifically being appointed Markgraf by the Elector Countess of Stirland. After the Stirland army and Imperial Battle Wizards have conquered the place. Mathilde is Stirlandian. There is no way the people of Sylvania are going to see us as anything other than someone from Stirland. Because we are.

You also seem to be suggesting that we should take Markgraf, not because Mathilde wants to, but because everyone else who would go for the position would be a terrible choice and I don't think that's true. At worst, Roswita will be forced to keep a closer eye on the Markgraf position, whoever she gives it too, and as someone with plenty of Witch Hunter friends, she can do that very easily.

primemountain said:
As for the idea that reinforcing the relationship between the Karaz Ankor and the Empire is more important, that's your opinion. It's already a strong connection. There's an entire argument to be had on if it's better to polish the strengths of the Empire (Dwarven Aliance) or work on plugging the holes (Hello new Vampire War!). Obviously I fall on the side that we should be patching holes in our boat, not working on more cannon for the deckguns. We already have enough.

As for the Waystone Project, it must be preceded by such things as "Eventually, like in a few decades or so" and "if it happens to succeeded despite all previous attempts failing". That's the thing about the Waystone project. The best way to work on the Waystone project is to vote for the Waystone project. But Mat will only ever get one shot at getting it right and failure is both likely and its cost terrible, in wealth, time and lives lost. That's not a gamble I'm willing to take yet.

While every other option isn't best for the Waystone Project, it also isn't a commitment to it. So the progress and the connections we make for the Waystone Project are marginal, compared to working on it directly, but so are the risks. I do not want to fuck that up and I'm not feeling confident that the current Mat is up to the task. It's that simple. Is Mat Teclis? Is she Kragg? Because they failed.

The whole gamble of the current iteration of the Waystone Project is that the Eonir will be willing to share, and the Dwarvs will be willing to work with them, and hoping that if all that Diplomatic quicksand can be overcome, minds elder and more learned than Mat can solve the problem if they but work together. And even if you get them to work together, any solution will be on their timescales.

The best way to do the Waystone Project is to vote for it. The second best way is to take a Research Sabbatical so Mat can expand her own understanding of the world, before she tries to tackle the biggest, hardest puzzle on the planet.
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I don't think most people voting for Waystone's are expecting to actually fix the entire network or anything like that. Most people want it for the research opportunities, the Lore and world building and the opportunities to gather disparate groups together and combine the knowledge everyone has. A massive amount of the Waystone Project will be gathering the knowledge and researching what there is. The Eonir are already on board, if need be we can burn Dwarf favour to get some help from the dwarves, but quite frankly I'm pretty sure they'd be on board if Mathilde asks. The Empire Colleges are ready and waiting for us to ask, as Algard said after we met the Eonir.

Research Sabbatical also has nothing to do with the Waystone Project and won't influence the Project either. We currently have nothing in our research backlog that I think applies to Waystones and Boney has said we already have access to all the Waystone knowledge we can get without making a commitment for the Waystone Project.

Valmond said:
For us, K8P and Sylvania can be practicly next door if we make a teleport tower.
And even without it, they are not exactly on the oppositesides ofthe world, it'll be a bit of a long range romance half a year atleast, but it's doable.
And being the problem solver for Markgraf of Sylvania who is also a Lady Magister is a big deal, even if there is a tonf of Battlemages already running around, because having a Lady Magister as a Markgraf is a very huge deal.
Would it be enough? Not sure.
But then it is not sure of any other option either.
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Do the teleport towers have the range to jump between K8P's and Sylvania? I thought they were quite a bit more limited than that.

Being problem solver Lady Magister for the Karaz Ankor seems far more impressive to my mind, especially since the most obvious threats in Sylvania are finished and a large chunk of what's left is rebuilding and uplifting.

There's also scale. Sylvania is a small area, compared to the range the Karaz Ankor covers. Or the Empire.
 
Inspirit said:
Do the teleport towers have the range to jump between K8P's and Sylvania? I thought they were quite a bit more limited than that.
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I don't think teleportation range has been determined yet. I can't find the quote, but I'm fairly sure Boney said something about rolling for the distance when we build the tower, not before.

Edit: Found a quote on the teleport tower:

BoneyM said:
The exact details of how the tower works will be determined during construction
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Inspirit said:
Do the teleport towers have the range to jump between K8P's and Sylvania? I thought they were quite a bit more limited than that.

Being problem solver Lady Magister for the Karaz Ankor seems far more impressive to my mind, especially since the most obvious threats in Sylvania are finished and a large chunk of what's left is rebuilding and uplifting.

There's also scale. Sylvania is a small area, compared to the range the Karaz Ankor covers. Or the Empire.
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I think they have enough range to pretty much anywhere in the empire, could be wrong.

As for being problem solving lady to Karaz Ankor, well, i dunno, we'd be doig what we were already doing, not really that impressive to me.
While in Sylvania we would be doing what nobody so far has not done, and the most obvious threats being gone does not mean things have gotten safer.

I don't really see what the size has to do with anything.
 
Two options left for those of us that want to continue to work with Belegar, Waystones under his aegis or Loremaster at large.

Both of these options leave room for those of that voted for the research Sabbatical to be able to continue on our research projects slowly overtime and leave us with easy access to our existing infrastructure.
 
It occurs to me that if Mat does become Markgraf of Stirland the negaverse people thinkinh she was a Vampire all along are going to get a lot of ammo.

"Look, look: She's even done the thing every Vampire does when they are feeling secure in their power, she's off to conquer and rule Sylvania! I told you Weber was a Vampire all along!"
 
Will I'm current again. Karag Dum Expedition was full of ups and downs, I'm very glad for Karak Vlag else it would have felt a little like an escort quest writ large : here's 5 tanks and 500 men, escort somedwarf home!

Not that it wasn't well written, it was just a gamble and not all of them can be off like K8P. I personally thought some of the quotes, lines, and dialogue during the Expedition were some of the best in the quest! And we got to solo fight and survive and anti-magic Chaos berserker! So that's fun!


Now a 100+ pages of discussion if I want to make a well informed decision!
 
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