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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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DragonParadox said:
The trouble with that is if we put in the effort to educate Mandred then he would be a pretty good candidate yeah? So obviously getting him on the throne becomes a form of greater good. How do we stack it up against others?
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At a certain point, we accept the "loss" and move on, because it's not worth escalating our efforts further.

We didn't test the Second Secret because it broke our reading of the articles, and there was literally no downside to that beyond knowing that we'd done so. The thread just won't stand for it.

This is all, of course, still predicated on the idea of Heidi asking us to do shady shit instead of what she's described the job as - going out and helping people to earn their gratitude. If she asks us to do something too shady, we can just say "no, that's not what I signed up for, give me something else to do."
 
tapkomet said:
Uh, what? Loremaster will explicitly involve us traveling between the various Dwarf holds and solving their issues. It is not at all staying in place
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its still largely Dwarf holds or dwarf related issues.

thought out the role of K8Ps loremaster we intervened in a non-dwarf matter once, when it was a crisis: even though Bro-king said that it was cool to help out the local human powers.

and the prevailing argument on why we never did actions in the 'foreign relations' list was because 'we K8ps loremaster'

I do not see any chance passed 'we Dwarf loremaster' if we pick that one.

thread habit will keep our actions within dwarf problems for however long we are in that job.

and I don't want that, I'm bor'd of dwarf problems, I want high action/intrigue/struggle that you can only get from the more squabbly factions.

I want my council of personalities, each with their own ambitions. not meeting where we walk around the mountains while patting each other on the back.

there is no intrigue among the dwarfs that, as humans, we care about.
 
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Honestly if we end up spending about 10 years on making sure he is good to inherit the throne than I would definitely vote to make sure he gets the throne.
 
DragonParadox said:
But what about bending the articles a bit? Say not a military defeat, but engineering a scandal for a rival EC? We are a Grey Magister, naturally inclined to look for and exploit edge cases. I don't really want to exercise that skill in dynastic politics.
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Look, I'm not even one of the people voting to be a bodyguard/mentor to Manndred and your arguments are coming across as fearmongering. Mathilde (and the playerbase) isn't suddenly going to lose all agency or free will if we agree to work with Heidi. If an opportunity comes along to bend any rules, there will be a vote on whether to do so. Just like there has been every other time.
 
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I'm surprised that the top three options are so close, and that Markgraf isn't top 3. It seemed like there was a lot more discussion on Markgraf than the votes would indicate.
 
ReImagined said:
95-93-93

I'm surprised that the top three options are so close, and that Markgraf isn't top 3. It seemed like there was a lot more discussion on Markgraf than the votes would indicate.
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Ultimately, any amount of discussion is going to be mainly a small fraction of the total voterbase.

Like, the top 20 posters in the thread probably have something like 50% of the posts, I would wager.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
Look, I'm not even one of the people voting to be a bodyguard/mentor to Manndred and your arguments are coming across as fearmongering. Mathilde (and the playerbase) isn't suddenly going to lose all agency or free will if we agree to work with Heidi. If an opportunity comes along to bend any rules, there will be a vote on whether to do so. Just like there has been every other time.
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I think you may be using a rather broad definition of fearmongering. We have already bent Article 7 into a pretzel. Is it really inconceivable that he would do anything against Article 1?
 
DragonParadox said:
But what about bending the articles a bit? Say not a military defeat, but engineering a scandal for a rival EC? We are a Grey Magister, naturally inclined to look for and exploit edge cases. I don't really want to exercise that skill in dynastic politics.
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I think there's a disconnect going on here over how much the election and dynastic politics are contested. Things like "rival EC" are quite rare - while all ECs have some ambition to become an Emperor/Empress, it is not significant, and they are very often willing to support the heir of the current Emperor for some concession or support said Emperor can offer. So, there isn't really a need for antagonistic politics in the first place.
 
DragonParadox said:
But what about bending the articles a bit? Say not a military defeat, but engineering a scandal for a rival EC? We are a Grey Magister, naturally inclined to look for and exploit edge cases. I don't really want to exercise that skill in dynastic politics.
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Gotta be honest I've my doubts about Heidi sending us to do these. I can't really see what she'd gain from doing that to one EC, he'd still have 1 vote and vote against Mandred after the scandal. In any case, though, we can always not vote to doing that kind of thing, because I seriously doubt BoneyM would remove our agency like that.

What I see far more likely is what Heidi said in the job description, being sent to do things EC wants, like killing Skaven or Vampires. Probably with us voting for what option we want to do, maybe one of those would be something like you propose but we can simply not vote for it.
 
agumentic said:
I think there's a disconnect going on here over how much the election and dynastic politics are contested. Things like "rival EC" are quite rare - while all ECs have some ambition to become an Emperor/Empress, it is not significant, and they are very often willing to support the heir of the current Emperor for some concession or support said Emperor can offer. So, there isn't really a need for antagonistic politics in the first place.
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Well Hedi is worried enough to hire a Grey LM. Ranald offered to pay us. I think it is reasonable to expect some opposition.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
there is no intrigue among the dwarfs that, as humans, we care about.
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The one intrigue I'd love would researching if it's possible to become the second coming of Nagash without using Dhar.
A Queen instead of the Dark Lord. Not dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. :o

But, it seems like we have already found it out long ago that no, we can't be a necromancer and not go insane-evil because, well, no necromancy without Dhar.
 
Also bending Article 7 is quite different to violating Article 1. They aren't comparable at all. Given the playerbase has, to omegahugger's disappointment, consistently voted against using Dhar or turning to Chaos, I'd have faith in it not voting to violate Article 1 and effectively commit suicide.
 
ALanos said:
It actually does provide a lot of prestige to Mathilde personally in the Empire though and while we have been fighting in distant shores to show the good of the empire we need to do some domestic prestige building so that Mathilde can be rightfully considered to be a Hero of the Empire.
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That's a part of it. But not a major one. We could garner more prestige if we just decided to travel around the provinces and help Elector Counts with whatever problems all on our own.

Though, I am curious how Heidi plans to make sure that whoever we help doesn't just think "Mathilde did me a solid", but also "The House of Holswig-Schliestein did me a solid by sending Mathilde".
Like, if for whatever reason we come to resend Heidi or just think that her son is a little shit, it would be quite easy for us to just covertly channel all that goodwill into votes for Roswita, or our personal projects or whatever.
If she either manages to convince Ranald of her viewpoint or is willing to withstand his ire, that is.
fan_of_D_Andreev said:
Well, I am interested in what exactly can we teach him. Would be very enlightening to me because I can't figure it out on my own. Like, what are we great at that we can teach someone without Ulgu or magic in general. Yes, I feel stupid there. :(
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The more benevolent interpretation of Ranaldism. Dwarven norms and culture. Insight into the Enemies of Man. Uses and purposes of Magisters. A bit of bureaucracy. How to swing a sword. Why economics matter. Being friends with Dragons. Moving incognito.
DragonParadox said:
Please stop using the GM's suggestion on a related matter hours ago as a conversational stick. If he objects to my conduct I am of course entirely open to changing it.
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He... already objected and you already said you'd drop it. It's the reason why I deleted all of my replies rebutting you from my last large reply aggregating post.
DragonParadox said:
Everyone is raised in a culture yes and that impacts how they act, but to explain why I put molded in italics, this is a prince, a lot of people are going to want influence over him and for a lot of reasons. Mathilde just being there will not magically make her the greatest influence in his life. Those are less scare italics and more 'this is very vague' italics as seen by the words added after that.
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She's not just there. She's personally vetting and managing his day-to-day teachers and bodyguards. That's as much influence as Heidi and Luitpold allow her before they feel the need to intervene.

That said, whi Luitpold is extremely busy, I don't expect Heidi to be anything close to hands off when it comes to her son's education. It seems like right now literally all of her plans and ambitions revolve around him.
Taxpayer said:
...Gonna be honest here, it really sounds like you're defending rape by deception so long as it happens to someone you're ideologically opposed to. That this is a heavily liked post kinda disturbs me, but it also doesn't change my opinion of SV a single bit.
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WT actual F? Seriously? That's where we're going now?

If you really want to start a discussion on whether keeping secrets about the past from your SO that would make him leave you if he knew makes every sexual encounter with them rape, then is there any chance that you're willing to have that discussion via PMs or in another thread? Because I really like this one and would like to see it continue uninterrupted.
Darth. said:
Going by how close this vote seems to be, we're going to have a lot of salty people no matter what wins.

Edit: @BoneyM if one option wins by like 1 or 2 more than the other, will there be another vote with only one choice allowed between those two/three options?
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Why would we need this? Approval voting already means that everyone can freely vote for their favorite preference and for the "lesser of two evils" at the same time. All that another vote would do is "force" the people who dislike both to choose one of the two (or just withhold their vote, changing nothing).
Taxpayer said:
So since you can't respond to a set of arguments politely, they're in bad faith?

You might not agree with "rape by deception" being a thing. It... kind of commonly is accepted as a thing. To me, you're the one arguing in bad faith.
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Why are you replying as if this was targeted at you? On the previus page I thought that was due to some mistake by Darth that they edited, but this is the second time.
 
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Just popping back in to say that a) I'm impressed that this vote is so close (seriously Boney, what's up with giving us so many cool options and then making us choose; downright inconsiderate if you think about it :V ) and b) even though I only voted for one of them, I'll actually be quite happy if any of the leading three win. We really are spoiled for choice here IMO.
 
fan_of_D_Andreev said:
But, it seems like we have already found it out long ago that no, we can't be a necromancer and not go insane-evil because, well, no necromancy without Dhar.
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Speaking of Dhar, something that I've been wondering for a while, if Dhar is basically all the Winds crushed together, then shouldn't it be possible to do any spell that uses Dhar with High Magic since it also manipulates the 8 Winds?
 
Rafin said:
Why would we need this? Approval voting already means that everyone can freely vote for their favorite preference. All that another vote would do is "force" the people who dislike both to choose one of the two (or just withhold their vote, changing nothing).
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(This is a bit obsolete but just explaning my reasoning at the time) I was thinking that this would force the people who hadn't voted for either of the options or voted for both, to pick one and that would give us a better idea of what the majority wants.
 
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