Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

Depends who you interact with but yes certainly. Firstly, morality will be a lot different, I'd intend Night Elves to be savage, High/Blood Elves to be aloof and uncaring, and we'll see how many other elves we get to. A night elf would be perfectly happy to kill an orc if they could, a Blood Elf might kill your for your magic items to fund their magic addition. Both cases will consider matters in weird ways, Night Elves won't understand currency, mercy, various other trappings of civilisation, Blood Elves (and to a less extent High Elves) won't care about 'mortal' concerns and will still be very isolationist, relying on magic etc rather than reforming their society.
Yeah, that's the thing about the Night Elves. They were supposed to be savage, getting praise from Grom of all people, have a post apoc nature feel to them, given the sundering of their ancient civilization and all, but that sort of felt lost with WoW.


Hm... Just watched the cutscene. Good point. I suppose he was away at the time? Either she went with Kul Tiran support and her father knew, or she went without and he didn't know. Either way you Daelin's ignorance of her status is at odds with Jaina's command of the fleet and the Kul Tiran corps with her in Kalimdor... Let's say Daelin was away and didn't hear about it or something?
If I were to rationalize this, I'd first start by saying that Jaina basically went GoFundMe as she gathered refugees who wanted to get as far away from the scourge as possible. She may not have managed to get official permission for these actions, so she did her best to privately convince certain commanders of various units that would later be the Lordaeron Corp or Kul Tiras Elite Corp to drop their duties and give up on the mainland, since those guys would be more concerned throwing everything they have at the monsters on their doorstep.

But that's just me.

Again the political situation is unclear. There's various settlements, their populations, status and constitutions varying. They range from Kul Tiran remnant military bases, now supplied periodically by Kul Tiras and Theramore, to Theramore as a mainly Kul Tiran but alliance supported city, to independent human towns (eg the Gilneans who came over with Jaina going off to make their own place), to neutral Goblin cartel ports with various people. There are no native settlements on the coast, there's tauren, quillboar, harpy and centaur inland in the barrens etc.

Canonically there are some humans in service of the Horde, though I expect these are individuals rather than communities.

I'll write an infopost on the Merchant Coast if the MC gets involved in that area to lay down some stuff definitively.
Interesting. We should probably mark the location of these kul tiran settlements just in case.

Also, how're the stonemaul ogres doing?
 
how're the stonemaul ogres doing?
Good points on the rest of it, nothing in particular to say on them as we've not gotten close to interacting with those areas yet and in-character you're not familiar with the specifics of these issues.

On the above though, they're probably not doing great now that Rexxar's wandered off and the Black Dragonflight just moved into their area.
 
Durotar 5
You're now coming up to your sixth month at Sen'jin village, your last month, at least for the moment. Master Gadrin has recently recovered from his coma, though is still weak and Rokhan, one of Vol'jin's advisors has taken on leadership of the village temporarily. You haven't actually spent much time going about the village due to your injury but you did spend time socialising with various parties including Rexxar and Vark.

Battle of the Crag

The only significant event that's happened recently is what many are calling the 'Battle of the Crag'. Rexxar led eighty orcs, most of the warband and stormed the Kolkar Crag, supported by Vok'fon and his raptor riders.

Initial attack = 41
Centaur defence = 46
Battle =100
Rexxar contribution = 36
Vark contribution = 86
Angrais contribution = 54


The outcome of the battle was predicted by many beforehand. The centaur rely on their mobility and against a shieldwall of orcs with troll's throwing spears and axes over into the centaur ranks the invaders were slowly pushed back through the canyon they'd called home. While the initial attack was largely stalemated due to the close confines and the ferocity of the centaurs who knew they were fighting for their lives, Rexxar ordered troll axehurlers and archers up the rocks to rain down missiles on the closely packed centaur from above. Vok'fon's riders pressed the centaur closely from the other end of the crag, their mounts' teeth and claws ripping the poorly organised centaur apart. While many had thought the battle's outcome obvious few had predicted the slaughter that followed, Orcs, Trolls, wargs and raptors running freely, killing as they willed while the centaur stampeded in terror. Rexxar himself was largely content to sit back and command the attack, though Angrais, you hear, got involved, calling on the Elements to speed the attacks of her comrades. Vark however contributed the most of the three, challenging the centaur chief to single combat, then catching the chief's charge, lifting the centaur bodily over his head and then slamming him down onto a knee, sundering the Khan's crude armour and snapping his spine. The Khan somehow survived this, but only long enough for Vark's boot to descend on his skull. For this feat Vark has become known as 'the Breaker', a formidable title for such a young orc. There were few casualties among the Horde forces and both raptors and wargs ate well that day.

You've been considering Vark's speech regarding the Kul Tirans and after you return from your mission to scout their abandoned watchtowers you speak with him again.

"To hear you describe it we lost the last war against the Kul Tirans." you begin, "We both know this isn't true, Rexxar killed their king and destroyed their navy and their forces exist as minor garrisons on the coast. I agree our position is less good than it might be, and perhaps you're right that these humans from across the sea will not stop harrying us, but isn't it better to endure the fly's sting and stir up the hornet's nest? If the Horde turned its attention toward Tirasgarde, Northwatch and the other settlements certainly we could overcome them but what then? If they wish it I don't doubt the Alliance could supply expeditions from the north, perhaps from Kaldorei ports, perhaps simply living off the land. Moving against the Kul Tirans in force guarantees their destruction but it also guarantees a response. Rexxar destroyed their fleet yes, but the Kul Tirans were always known as the foremost sea power in the world, perhaps excepting the Zandalari. We have no navy ourselves, do you expect we could sneak cargoes of timber past Kul Tiran patrols?"

You pause, considering your next remarks, "Consider honour." you say, "Firstly, our Warchief has forbade conflict with the humans and we are bound to obey him. Thrall knows humans, he was raised by one after all and he has contact, so they say, with the Proudmoore woman to the south, what if he has some plan to resolve the conflict? The Old Horde, drunk on demonblood, rampaged across the Eastern Kingdoms. The demons and warlocks dishonoured our race and if we continue these feuds we dishonour our people just as the Fel did."

Vark's eyes are dark as he looks into the fire between you. Idly he pokes it with a stick, looks up and replies, "You speak of flies and stings." he grunts, "We are stung, we have been strung for years, do you think we've become so accustomed to these stings that we tolerate them now? Even when they weaken us? Even when our fortifications go without timber, even when the goblins bleed us for the use of their airships? I don't fear the sting, I fear the dagger sliding between our ribs in its place when we're already locked in place with a foe."

"Further," Vark says after a while, "While I know you to be honourable, and that your strength lies beyond your size, others do not. Caution can be mistaken for cowardice. Beware."

Vark's position remains unchanged but you made a sufficiently good argument that you aren't converted to his position, and you are neither locked into, nor rejecting any future activity against the Kul Tirans.

Note, the arguments proposed were largely around three points:

Honour: Dishonourable to play into human stereotypes, should represent best of orcish society
Prudence: Danger of escalation, poor position, resource issues
Appeal to Authority: Issue complicated, not our place to decide, thrall knows the humans, thrall knows best, thrall's policies will work best.

I've written out the argument using the different arguments proposed and in general I'm inclined to reward participation like this. For example even if your vote doesn't win if you've got some good points I'll include them. On the other hand if there's something in there that's out of character or factually incorrect I won't include it. As one example if you tried to tell Vark its easier to get timber by road from Feralas he's going to laugh at you, the distances are vast and sea travel is almost always better than land, while going for palm trees, though a good idea, apparently doesn't work because they aren't any good as timber, or so google says. In these sorts of votes I'm happy to take bullet points and write the arguments myself in accordance with the voice of the MC etc. Be aware that these argument choices do have an effect on Grok'mash's character. If you constantly go about saying 'the Warchief knows best' you might get the Reverent trait which would force you to accept orders and requests from elders etc. This would obviously be problematic if the Warchief was MoP era Garrosh.


You still have an obligation toward Vark for saving your life and the unfulfilled debt bothers you, however considering it further you come up with a solution. You've spent more time with Vark recently and would consider him a friend. He's an ambitious, but honourable orc and most of all despite his massively greater size and strength he's never mocked your own weakness. You consider offering Blood-brotherhood to Vark. The bond is a sacred one among Orcs and it will oblige you to assist him if he calls for your help. This debt creates a familial bond between you both and oblige each of you to provide battle-aid, hospitality and, perhaps eventually, political support to the other.

[ ] Offer Blood-brotherhood to Vark
[ ] Do not offer Blood-brotherhood to Vark


Meanwhile, Zalazane and his hexxed frigate remain a threat to the village, but a much more manageable one now that all the other threats to Sen'jin have been dealt with. Rokhan will lead an expedition to the Echo Isles to deal with Zalazane, perhaps permanently soon, though some Trolls are more cynical about this. Apparently Zalazane has been hunted down and apparently slain several times in the past and his head brought back to the village, only to turn into a painted rock or a coconut soon after, the traitorous witch-doctor still working his evil from across the straits.

You also successfully returned with the loot of the Tirasgarde watchtowers. You decided to prioritise written documents over equipment and you hauled back a massive number of assorted papers and scrolls, books and magical tomes. You also found what you assume was a Kul Tiran officers effects in a desk drawer, including his spyglass, signet ring and seal depicting the crest of the officer's clan. You assume the humans have clans anyway. The symbol depicts an anchor, the common Kul Tiras crest, stylised and combined with an open eye at the junction of the anchor.

You gain:
Assorted papers x2
Non-magical books
Magical books
Unknown Kul Tiran officer's effects including a seal, signet ring and spyglass


You got back to the village safely, but you realised once you got back that you'd strained yourself carrying the heavy books and bulky scrolls which has delayed your recovery.

Full recovery delayed by 1 turn. 5 Actions this turn, 5 next turn due to strained injury. Fully recovered and back to 6 actions after that.

The village is even more secure and you consider your own situation. You have tarried long enough with the Trolls and will need to travel soon to Razor Hill to deliver your reports, and then back home to Orgrimmar and the Cleft of Shadow, the home of the Burning Blade clan. You've spent time training, speaking with various people and helping the village, but now you need to prepare for your journey.

You will depart soon. After that you'll spend about six weeks travelling to Orgrimamr, stopping at Razor Hill on the way. Once you reach Orgrimmar you'll report to your father Neeru Fireblade, Chief of the Burning Blade clan, and return the Flamebender's Tome you took without his permission. You consider that it's possible that if you prove worthy of it you'll be allowed to keep it, but you'd have to impress your father for this to happen. You try not to consider the implications of your return and the potential reactions of your father but your mind goes to dark places... you might be exiled, or worse...

Last turn in Sen'jin, then 1 turn travelling, stopping at Razor Hill on the way. You can leave earlier if you choose to, which would allow you to spend more time at Razor Hill, an Orcish settlement larger than Sen'jin. After this you will (possibly permanently) give up the Flamebender's Tome. You may also be exiled from the clan depending on your father's reaction, though your actions at Sen'jin are sufficiently worthy to be admitted to other clans if this comes to pass.

You remain slightly injured and can't take any vigorous actions without impeding your recovery. Instead you decide to spend more time learning and in research. You also feel you've satisfied the requirements of honour for the moment and don't feel obliged to assist the Darkspear as you have been previously. Master Vornal also owes you a favour for persuading his son to return to the village.

1 Action limit on research removed while injured.
You are no longer obliged to take communal actions.
1 Action can be boosted using your favour from Vornal. This can be used to oblige someone to teach you and will ensure success in any teaching, or to allow your participation in activities you wouldn't ordinarily be involved in. You don't need to use this favour now, it may be advantageous to keep it for later.


Turn 5
CHOOSE 5 ACTIONS

Communal actions

The Darkspear have no direct authority over you, and in fact the balance of obligation has somewhat shifted. Still, there's a few ways you can help the community.

[ ] Echo Isles Expedition: Master Gadrin suggested you join the Echo Isles expedition, but now the circumstances of the mission have changed significantly. For one thing this simply isn't your responsibility and the Darkspear have many resources they can call on if needed. If you do want to go you'll have to use your favour from Master Vornal to get Rokhan to bring you along given your injury and the larger forces available to the Darkspear. Furthermore, the expedition has been reinforced and now has a larger mission which will mean participation will take up more of your limited time. COSTS 2 ACTIONS.
[ ] Leave early for Razor Hill, allowing you to spend more time at that settlement. You have to deliver your orders after all and you've already delayed doing so. You know Razor Hill is a larger settlement than Sen'jin village and is largely composed of Orcs, with a greater military focus. TAKES UP 1 ACTION THIS TURN IN EXCHANGE FOR GAINING AN ACTION NEXT TURN.
[Write in] You think of another way you can contribute to the community. Note: Query the write in with me before putting it in a plan.


Personal Actions:

Social
: The village is less busy currently, perhaps you can speak with some of them in their free moments.
[ ] Socialise with high status individuals and see what planning or activity is going on.
[ ] Socialise with low status individuals and learn more about the day to day cares and gossip of the village at this time.
[ ] Socialise with the outsiders of the village, including Vark and Angrais, and the few other races in the village.
[ ] Socialise with the new arrivals including Vok'fon or the Orcish warband.


Train: While it's important for a warrior to keep themselves well trained at all times to better serve clan and Horde and you're no exception, you're still recovering from a significant injury so you should probably not be doing anything strenuous.
[ ] Further study the historical and scholarly elements of the Flamebender's Tome.
[Write in from existing skills] There are a few skills you can't think of an immediate way to train, such as your basic leadership skills as you aren't in command of anything currently. However, you could seek out ways to train your other skills, for example by offering your tactical advice to the Village's warriors. Note: Query the write in with me before putting it in a plan.


Learn: For other skills your understanding is too basic at the moment to learn independently. You can search for a teacher, but many will currently be occupied.
[ ] Alchemy: The Darkspear are well known for their alchemy, though they might not be as willing to part with their secrets.
[ ] Riding: There are wolf riders among the orcs recently arrived, and you think either they or one of Vok'fon's raptor riders might be persuaded to teach you how to ride such warbeasts.
[Write in a new skill]: You could also try and find a teacher for more fringe arts, like the specific tradition of arcane magic the trolls use, or their traditions of enchanting. Note: Query the write in with me before putting it in a plan.


Shamanism: You now have enough knowledge to seriously consider your connection with the Elements.
[ ] Sapta: The Flamebender's Tome indicates that you need to craft a sapta, a sort of potion, to forge a connection with the elementals and then overcome one in battle and bind it to a totem. You possess the reagents and recipe to craft a potion. Brew this potion in preparation for connecting with the elements. Awards 1 Sapta.
[ ] Another Sapta: You have enough ingredients for a second Sapta, but you'll need to acquire a few more. Gather these in preparation for brewing another Sapta. Awards reagents but not a Sapta.
[ ] Connecting with the Spirit of Fire: Drink the Sapta and open your spirit to the Elements. You find a holy place and battle the Fire Elemental there to acquire a token to form the basis of a totem. Requires 1 Sapta.
[ ] Connecting with the Spirit of Earth: Drink the Sapta and open your spirit to the Elements. You find a holy place and battle the Earth Elemental there to acquire a token to form the basis of an elemental totem. Requires 1 Sapta.
[ ] Meditate: While you can try to strengthen your precognitive abilities, you felt much closer to the Spirit of the Wild when you were fighting against the Kul Tirans, and as such you aren't sure more time mediating on your own without a teacher will help.
[ ] Troll Shamanism: You can use your favour from Vornal to take another try at learning more about the Elements and forming a connection with one of them in the Trollish tradition of Shamanism.


Research: You have the basics of scholarship, and your injury means you should probably spend more time on research at the moment.
[ ] Further investigate the Flamebender's Tome, a book detailing some of the magical traditions of your clan. You've read through most of it and have a good idea of what it contains, you choose to investigate [Write in]. ('Nothing specific' is a permissible write in, but looking for particular things would be more effective that paging through a massive book reading generally.)
[ ] Gather, create or barter for various materials you might find useful. Vark's bombs were essential to your success at the Kul Tiran tower, perhaps you can find something useful like [Write in required]
[ ] Investigate your Medallion more, you we're able to find anything on it in the Flamebender's Tome, but perhaps another search will help.
[Write in] You've experienced outside culture now and there are several things you can think about investigating from the Trolls' voodoo to the human gunpowder weapons. Note: Query the write in with me before putting it in a plan.


You consider what to do with the various texts you've acquired from the Kul Tiran watchtowers. Looking through your haul you divine them into different categories based on the length, content and appearance of the writing. One book you're fairly sure is a bestiary due to the detailed pictures of various animals, another appears to be a text on geometry with many mathematical drawings. Some scrolls are well written with good calligraphy, others are scrawled pages of text, while still more seem to be lists of some sort.

While there are several individuals in Sen'jin who can read the human tongue you don't believe any of them will have the time to go through these texts before leave so you'll have to remain ignorant regarding the contents of some of the texts. You face two problems; firstly the quantity of items, which is large, too large certainly for you to carry to Razor Hill on your own, and secondly your lack of understanding of the specific documents. If you took them to Orgrimmar you could hand them over to the Shattered Hand, the Orcish clan specialising in espionage who might be able to make something of the pile of papers, while you think the magical books would be a good gift for your father when you return home. Unless you can get hold of a warg or other pack animal you'll have to carry everything yourself including your supplies, sword and other items. After your experience of injuring yourself returning from the watchtowers you don't feel it sensible to overburden yourself.

Choose 2:
[ ] Take magical books.
[ ] Take only the books with pictures, indicating specialist subjects.
[ ] Take non-specialist books.
[ ] Take longer papers such as scrolls on history.
[ ] Take all personal papers including letters and similar.
[ ] Take maps and charts
[Write in] You take a different selection of the papers.


You're going to pack the items sensibly so you get a little more of a cargo allowance than you did when you were just stuffing stuff into a sack. You can also write in to change things, for example if you only take maps of Kalimdor you could take half of another choice too. I'll roll for some of these next chapter, so if you took might get love letters or you might get letters detailing attack plans, you can't read human yet though so you don't know, nor do you have the expertise in espionage or scholarship needed to piece together various papers.

You also consider what to do with the rest of the papers. You'll have to leave anything behind that you don't take and the two immediate parties that spring to mind are the Darkspear and the Orcs warband. The Darkspear are the more scholarly culture and will be more inclined to read over the papers, but the Orcs will be more likely to give the papers to some officer of the Horde. Having said that, both parties might simply ignore the papers or use them to light fires, so perhaps you should give the papers to someone else?

Who do you give the rest of the papers to?
[ ] Give the papers to the trolls
[ ] Give the papers to the orcs
[Write in] You decide to give the papers to someone else


Homeward bound
Finally, you consider carefully what sort of reaction your father might have when you return home. You will proceed north after you conclude your business in Sen'jin, stopping at Razor Hill and then going on to Orgrimmar. When you consider your father your first memories are of a warrior, fearsome but warm, you remember him teaching you the first battle stances, making the fire dance with his magic for your amusement. Then later, possibly, you now realise, coinciding with your slow growth and clear weakness, he became cold and memories of his eyes cold and angry with green fire dominate those of eyes filled with love. You'd realised several years ago that your father had probably sent you away to the Valley of Trials to avoid you being seen by anyone in Orgrimmar and bringing shame on the family through your weakness. He'd done all he could since you'd been born, from keeping you well fed to giving you the best trainers, but it still hadn't made you as strong or tall as the other orcs and you realise you'll likely experience the same discrimination from those in your clan as you did from the Orcish captain who thought you were half-human. In addition to your weakness though you've delayed following your clan orders for six months and return home with the same clear weakness you'd left with. You do have a new sword, you're well trained, and you consider whether your father might be impressed by some of the papers you retrieved from the Kul Tirans, but none of this is exceptional and whenever you consider your return home a cold weight settles in your stomach.

Notes

Think carefully about the choices in this chapter as you're now on a clock much more than you were before. Feel free to ask about the specifics of some of these and clarify anything. I'll answer in character questions in an in character fashion, such as things like 'Will there be Orcish shaman willing to teach us at Razor Hill'. You can come back to Sen'jin at some later date if you want to learn Troll alchemy etc, but you really are on a clock now which is currently counting down to your exile from your clan.

I'll write up an info post on the Exile-O-Meter between this chapter and the results chapter, so you may wish to wait for that before voting. Many of the things that would get you exiled are obvious and I've mentioned them before so feel free to vote and then just get clarification from the upcoming infopost. These include but are not limited to; active and passive disloyalty, treachery, foolishness, causing embarrassment, causing dishonour, weakness, bringing various parties into disrepute. See the info post 'Possible clan future interactions' for possible scenarios when you return. Questions welcome on this.

Posts proposing plans for the first time will be ignored and uncounted without decent reasoning. The voting is open, but I encourage the posting of draft plans which can then be voted on 'properly' once discussed in thread. Voting's open for a few days.
 
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ok, so the consideration here is that we form a familial bond with Vark. There's pros and cons for this. By making this bond, we'd be open to his friendship and help from him and whatever pull he could offer us. That's good. However, there's downsides. Knowing that he's from the Warsong, most likely to make war with Kul Tirans and currently warring with the Night Elves, that'll mean we might have to help him fight those people that we probably don't want to, which might be detrimental to diplomatic efforts.

In character, though, I think we'd choose to make this blood bond, but out of character, I'm pretty sure it'll pull us into more trouble than we're prepared for.

As for our other actions, I think we've lingered long enough out here. We should probably get on to Razor Hill. I get the feeling the more we tarry, the greater the likelihood that dear old dad is going to give us nasty repercussions. We can also study the Flamebender's tome while we still have the chance before we have to give it back, so whatever suggestions for us to look into specifically would be welcome. I'd also suggest we start learning the human language if possible, since that might help us out later and avoid similar situations where we carry loads of paper that could have been otherwise used to carry weapons and stuff.





[x] Plan: Get on with it.

-[x] Offer Blood-brotherhood to Vark

-[x] Leave early for Razor Hill, allowing you to spend more time at that settlement. You have to deliver your orders after all and you've already delayed doing so. You know Razor Hill is a larger settlement than Sen'jin village and is largely composed of Orcs, with a greater military focus. TAKES UP 1 ACTION THIS TURN IN EXCHANGE FOR GAINING AN ACTION NEXT TURN.

-[x] Further study the historical and scholarly elements of the Flamebender's Tome.


For Learning let's
-[x] Start learning how to read/write/speak Common

-[x] Further investigate the Flamebender's Tome, a book detailing some of the magical traditions of your clan. You've read through most of it and have a good idea of what it contains, you choose to investigate [Write in]. ('Nothing specific' is a permissible write in, but looking for particular things would be more effective that paging through a massive book reading generally.)
In this case, @FractiousDay , can you remind me what we've gone through in the book so I don't suggest something redundant?

edit: I'd like to suggest looking more into the Flameseer stuff to give us some premonitions. And also, maybe if there's anything on immolation as a technique.


[Write in] You take a different selection of the papers.
Actually, could we take some and ask that someone send the papers to us later? We got a postal service or something of the sort?
In any case, we're looking to study magic so let's get those magic books, and I figure personal papers would give us some insight into the kul tiran's mind and maybe even reveal some juicy intelligence as well.

[x] Take magical books.
[x] Take all personal papers including letters and similar.

[Write in] You decide to give the papers to someone else


Can we ask Rexxar to deliver this stuff to Thrall again? I mean, I know it's retreading the first quest of his, but at least it's something he's familiar with.
 
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Flamebender's Tome research status (to be updated in its own threadmark)
can you remind me what we've gone through in the book so I don't suggest something redundant?
You've had a general read and identified the following topics to be in the book, and you've read further into a few of them, underlined below. You only have Basic Scholarship though so you're not that good at reading generally, you're not able to do the same reading of a source as someone who'd been to Dalaran would have for example because you just don't have the education or even the language skills.

Stories and legends of the Burning Blade
Descriptions of traditions

Stuff about Draenor generally
Blacksmithing stuff (how they make the cool swords)
Stuff on elemental connecting and binding
Stuff on elementals in general

Some stuff you think is probably demonic notes but its in the demon language which hurts your eyes to look at because its all evil and stuff and you can't read it
Notes in another language (you dont know what, but its actually the fire elemental language)
Stuff about fire magic
Stuff about air magic
Alchemy stuff
Enchanted items stuff
Divination (Flameseers)
Ogre lore
Draenei Lore
Other draenor races lore


could we take some and ask that someone send the papers to us later? We got a postal service or something of the sort?
If you were higher rank sure you could order it, but no not currently. The Alliance has a postal service, including civilian, the Horde has only a extraordinary (as in not regular) military postal service which is usually just giving a wolf rider a letter and ordering them about etc.
I know it's retreading the first quest of his, but at least it's something he's familiar with.
That was the last wish of an orc who didn't want to die in dishonour, this is you asking the Champion of the Horde to carry some letters for you, so nope, in character you don't think he'd be interested. Remember though, Vark is heading north to see his father after he's done in Sen'jin and he's a big dude who probably wouldn't mind bringing some stuff for a blood brother (hint hint)
 
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Divination (Flameseers)
Yeah, this is something I'd be interested in delving into. Could give us nice directions to go into and forewarning for crazy shit in the future.

Also, is there nothing on the use of Immolation that we could use?

If you were higher rank sure you could order it, but no not currently. The Alliance has a postal service, including civilian, the Horde has only a extraordinary (as in not regular) military postal service which is usually just giving a wolf rider a letter and ordering them about etc.
So, my next agenda will be to create a postal service so that no one has to suffer what we have suffered.

That was the last wish of an orc who didn't want to die in dishonour, this is you asking the Champion of the Horde to carry some letters for you, so nope, in character you don't think he'd be interested. Remember though, Vark is heading north to see his father after he's done in Sen'jin and he's a big dude who probably wouldn't mind bringing some stuff for a blood brother (hint hint)
Yeah, ok, so we can ask him to at the very least deliver this stuff to Thrall, or have someone translate it for us to find out.


[x] Plan: Get on with it.

-[x] Offer Blood-brotherhood to Vark

-[x] Leave early for Razor Hill, allowing you to spend more time at that settlement. You have to deliver your orders after all and you've already delayed doing so. You know Razor Hill is a larger settlement than Sen'jin village and is largely composed of Orcs, with a greater military focus. TAKES UP 1 ACTION THIS TURN IN EXCHANGE FOR GAINING AN ACTION NEXT TURN.

-[x] Further study the historical and scholarly elements of the Flamebender's Tome.

For Learning let's
-[x] Start learning how to read/write/speak Common

-[x] Further investigate the Flamebender's Tome, a book detailing some of the magical traditions of your clan. You've read through most of it and have a good idea of what it contains, you choose to investigate Flameseer


-[x] Take magical books.
-[x] Take all personal papers including letters and similar.

[Write in] You decide to give the papers to someone else
-[x] Ask Vark to bring the material to Orgrimmar to be translated. If it's anything of use, please forward it to the Warchief, though we'd like a copy to read of each material when we get there ourselves.
 
I don't mind your plan, including the Flameseer stuff since we have precognition already, but I disagree on a couple of points so I may propose another:

We shouldn't read even more history. It's more useful to Socialise with the outsiders of the village, including Vark and Angrais, and the few other races too . It has 2 purposes:
- Boosting the action of Learning the Common tongue: to learn properly, we need a teacher. So in the future we can discern whether we are carrying military intelligence, a grocery list or cute letters. It ties very well with the stealth/espionage angle.
- It would be nice to form a Krantt - term used by the Krogan of Mass Effect, that are comparable to the Orcs in some aspects: a close mini-clan somewhere between friends, associates and family. We should speak with Vark and Angrais more.

The Vark issue... as a "classic" orc, he may end up being quite the rising star in the Horde, but he can be foolhardy. I know it's useful to have a big stronk Orc as our BFF, however being blood-brothers may bring trouble (heh, I see this as a trade-off, an asset for agency).
The point is: we wish for him to listen to us and then decide what to do, but we do not wish to be dragged into any random decision of his. Maybe it's better to stay friends, lol.
 
Also, is there nothing on the use of Immolation that we could use?
If you mean immolation as in fire magic that would be more under the 'fire magic stuff', but you'd have to have an elemental connection with a fire elemental before you could start throwing fire around
including the Flameseer stuff since we have precognition already,
different types, different elements, potentially different uses
but he can be foolhardy
So in my other fic where Vark is one of the main characters he's a Death Knight, so yea he was foolhardy once too many times and went up against someone he couldn't beat.
 
We shouldn't read even more history. It's more useful to Socialise with the outsiders of the village, including Vark and Angrais, and the few other races too . It has 2 purposes:
- Boosting the action of Learning the Common tongue: to learn properly, we need a teacher. So in the future we can discern whether we are carrying military intelligence, a grocery list or cute letters. It ties very well with the stealth/espionage angle.
- It would be nice to form a Krantt - term used by the Krogan of Mass Effect, that are comparable to the Orcs in some aspects: a close mini-clan somewhere between friends, associates and family. We should speak with Vark and Angrais more.
Yeah, not bad. I don't mind doing this, it's just my personal preference to gather whatever we can while we still have the book.


The Vark issue... as a "classic" orc, he may end up being quite the rising star in the Horde, but he can be foolhardy. I know it's useful to have a big stronk Orc as our BFF, however being blood-brothers may bring trouble (heh, I see this as a trade-off, an asset for agency).
The point is: we wish for him to listen to us and then decide what to do, but we do not wish to be dragged into any random decision of his. Maybe it's better to stay friends, lol.
Yeah, I kind of want to keep my distance on that, but at the same time, would not offering the blood bond snub Vark and offend his sense of honor?

Additionally, would that make delivering the rest of the papers less effective if he were not our blood brother?


at any rate, here's a modified version of the plan


[x] Plan: Get on with it V.2
[x] Plan: Get on with it.

-[x] Do not offer Blood-brotherhood to Vark

-[x] Leave early for Razor Hill, allowing you to spend more time at that settlement. You have to deliver your orders after all and you've already delayed doing so. You know Razor Hill is a larger settlement than Sen'jin village and is largely composed of Orcs, with a greater military focus. TAKES UP 1 ACTION THIS TURN IN EXCHANGE FOR GAINING AN ACTION NEXT TURN.

-[x] Socialize with the outsiders of the village, including Vark and Angrais, and the few other races in the village.

For Learning let's
-[x] Start learning how to read/write/speak Common

-[x] Further investigate the Flamebender's Tome, a book detailing some of the magical traditions of your clan. You've read through most of it and have a good idea of what it contains, you choose to investigate Flameseer

-[x] Take magical books.
-[x] Take all personal papers including letters and similar.

[Write in] You decide to give the papers to someone else
-[x] Ask Vark to bring the material to Orgrimmar to be translated. If it's anything of use, please forward it to the Warchief, though we'd like a copy to read of each material when we get there ourselves.
 
Vark its easier to get timber by road from Feralas he's going to laugh at you, the distances are vast and sea travel is almost always better than land, while going for palm trees, though a good idea, apparently doesn't work because they aren't any good as timber, or so google says.
That's the thing: palm trees is mostly what the South Sea islands have, and they are not so good as lumber. So taking down Tirasgarde and Northwatch and their fleets might open the surrounding islands for plunder... and all they have is palm lumber, which is not much good for what the Horde needs (building ships and huge buildings), they are more up jungle trolls' style of construction. So for the good lumber you need to go to Lordaeron, which means destroying not just the local Tiran colonies, but the main Kul Tiras Navy as a whole. Otherwise those ships full of lumber would, quite literally, have to sneak away from Tiran navy patrols (which are going to be much angrier if their colonies are destroyed by the orcs).
And I don't agree much on Feralas, because even if the Barrens is wast, that's still a much cheaper way to get lumber that relies on something the orc civilization is already doing (establishing a controlled road network over the Barrens), which only requires clandestine caravan defense from local creeps, while the sea travel across the whole world has way more risks: Maelstrom, Naga, Kul Tiras, requires qualified ship crews and additional supply not just to built ships, but to repair them and keep manageable. Since you're playing with WoD Draenor and no clans having seafaring traditions like in WC2... I don't see how Vark expects this plan to go when orcs will need to learn shipbuilding and seafaring mostly from the scratch.
I was aware that appeal to authority might make MC a sycophant, but, well, better a Thrall sycophant than a "Cycle of Hatred"-style troublemaker.
 
Ok:smile:, I like the new version of the plan with my modifications thrown in:

[] Plan: Get on with it V.2
modified into: [x] Plan: Get on with it V.3

Actions:
[x] Leave early for Razor Hill, allowing you to spend more time at that settlement. You have to deliver your orders after all and you've already delayed doing so. You know Razor Hill is a larger settlement than Sen'jin village and is largely composed of Orcs, with a greater military focus. TAKES UP 1 ACTION THIS TURN IN EXCHANGE FOR GAINING AN ACTION NEXT TURN
[x] Socialize with the outsiders of the village, including Vark and Angrais, and the few other races in the village.
[x] Different documents should have different recipients. Ask Vark to bring the maps & charts and the history scrolls to Orgrimmar to be translated. If it's anything of use, please forward it to the Warchief, though we'd like a copy to read of each material when we get there ourselves. Give the books with pictures and non-specialist books to the trolls, they may find something interesting in them.
[x] Sapta: The Flamebender's Tome indicates that you need to craft a sapta, a sort of potion, to forge a connection with the elementals and then overcome one in battle and bind it to a totem. You possess the reagents and recipe to craft a potion. Brew this potion in preparation for connecting with the elements. Awards 1 Sapta.
[x] Further investigate the Flamebender's Tome, a book detailing some of the magical traditions of your clan. You've read through most of it and have a good idea of what it contains, you choose to investigate Flameseer

Choices:
[x] Do not offer Blood-brotherhood to Vark
[x] Take magical books.
[x] Take all personal papers including letters and similar.
 
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Given Vark's political ambitions (and that he might call on blood brother's favor if MC ever rises to an actual political position in his clan), I am wary of offering the blood bond ourselves. If VARK offered it, it would be dishonorable to disagree, but as it is, let's just keep it a favor without going on to making him a family member.
However, that brings us to the fact that GM hinted that Vark would be alright with helping a blood-brother. Not being one and still giving him a papers quest, which may not even be of any use, is something he might either disagree with, or increase the the debt MC owes him. Not sure if asking Vark for help is the best idea (I really don't want to make him a brother after this political propaganda attempt of his that we had to counter for the MC, or suffer character-changing consequences), and considering that he doesn't seem to like Thrall that much, he may not even consider it useful... Unless, we appeal to his "destroy Kul Tiras" ambition and make a point that this maps, charts and letters may contain sensitive information.
Another angle to consider is that if the letters are useful, we'll be advancing Vark's career more so than MC's own if he's the one to deliver the info to the Shattered Hand, or to any knowledgeable officer in the military.
Would Angrais be interested in this matter? Does she know Common / Tiran?
EDIT: Actually, you know what? If the letters are useful, letting Vark take credit for them may be a way to repay our debt, and increase standing with him (since it appeals to his anti-Tiran sensibilities and ambitions re:wars against humans).

Oh, and definitely take magical books for dad. Trained to be a warrior, and be cursed with weak, sickly physique, what a tragic fate for the poor MC... I almost wonder if Neeru's gonna use that argument to push him into going part-time warlock (maybe that's why he let MC take the book "without permission").
 
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Given Vark's political ambitions (and that he might call on blood brother's favor if MC ever rises to an actual political position in his clan), I am wary of offering the blood bond ourselves. If VARK offered it, it would be dishonorable to disagree, but as it is, let's just keep it a favor without going on to making him a family member.
However, that brings us to the fact that GM hinted that Vark would be alright with helping a blood-brother. Not being one and still giving him a papers quest, which may not even be of any use, is something he might either disagree with, or increase the the debt MC owes him. Not sure if asking Vark for help is the best idea (I really don't want to make him a brother after this political propaganda attempt of his that we had to counter for the MC, or suffer character-changing consequences), and considering that he doesn't seem to like Thrall that much, he may not even consider it useful... Unless, we appeal to his "destroy Kul Tiras" ambition and make a point that this maps, charts and letters may contain sensitive information.
Another angle to consider is that if the letters are useful, we'll be advancing Vark's career more so than MC's own if he's the one to deliver the info to the Shattered Hand, or to any knowledgeable officer in the military.
Would Angrais be interested in this matter? Does she know Common / Tiran?
EDIT: Actually, you know what? If the letters are useful, letting Vark take credit for them may be a way to repay our debt, and increase standing with him (since it appeals to his anti-Tiran sensibilities and ambitions re:wars against humans).

Oh, and definitely take magical books for dad. Trained to be a warrior, and be cursed with weak, sickly physique, what a tragic fate for the poor MC... I almost wonder if Neeru's gonna use that argument to push him into going part-time warlock (maybe that's why he let MC take the book "without permission").
Yeah, we can definitely use the angle where this could contain information necessary to countering Kul Tiras to get him to deliver it.

Let's just hope that jumpstarting his rise isn't going to backfire too much.
 
Well, the books contain stuff from bestiary to geometry, but frankly I think we are keeping the best info for ourselves;) (the various documents and letters). We are giving away something that could be potentially quite useful ( reminder: books with pictures indicating specialist subjects, non-specialist books, longer papers such as scrolls on history, maps and charts ) but not something Horde-changing.

On second thought, the best course is to leave the books with pictures with the trolls, since they are slightly more cultured so to speak, and tell him to carry the scrolls on history and the maps & charts. Those have more of a strategic quality, it would be easier to persuade him.
Yeah, I will modify my plan above.
And if he asks "why history stuff?" we can say "because we will know more of how they view the nations around them. Who they like, who they fear, who they consider allies, what is important for them in the land"
 
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[x] Plan: Get on with it V.2

Yeah I'm cool with this plan because even if we don't offer the blood-brother option, he is still a close ally of us.
 
Enjoying the discussion so far, but I would encourage you to consider the short term as well as the long. Kir's guessed a couple of thing so far. Firstly yes Vark is likely to respond well to something that advances his career, and if the texts are useful enough the obligation might swing back with him being obliged to you. Keep in mind if you ignore honour more you might lose the honourbound trait, not immediately, but possibly sometime in arc 2 because you in-character chose to ignore a debt etc.

Regarding short vs long term, while I understand the impulse that makes you go for long term stuff, be very careful here. In-character you think that if you give Feldad the magic books that'll be sufficient to stop your exile, but you'll still lose your position as heir.

Learning a language would be cool, but you could learn it from an actual human in orgrimmar. If you show Feldad you can say 'please direct me to the swimming pool' in Common is he going to be sufficiently impressed with a few months of learnt languages not to exile you?

Is there a reason you guys are ignoring the Sapta stuff? You could potentially have a connection with Fire and Earth with some of their spells by the time you get back to Orgrimmar. Magic is cool and In-character you think Feldad would be impressed with magic etc
 
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Is there a reason you guys are ignoring the Sapta stuff? You could potentially have a connection with Fire and Earth with some of their spells by the time you get back to Orgrimmar. Magic is cool and In-character you think Feldad would be impressed with magic etc
I figured that we'd have time enough to do that later.

Though, just in case, here's a modified version 3 of the Get On With It plan. We'll get some sapta this turn, and next turn we'll connect with the spirit of fire with it.

[x] Plan: Get on with it V.3
[x] Plan: Get on with it.

-[x] Do not offer Blood-brotherhood to Vark

-[x] Leave early for Razor Hill, allowing you to spend more time at that settlement. You have to deliver your orders after all and you've already delayed doing so. You know Razor Hill is a larger settlement than Sen'jin village and is largely composed of Orcs, with a greater military focus. TAKES UP 1 ACTION THIS TURN IN EXCHANGE FOR GAINING AN ACTION NEXT TURN.

-[x] Socialize with the outsiders of the village, including Vark and Angrais, and the few other races in the village.

-[x] Sapta: The Flamebender's Tome indicates that you need to craft a sapta, a sort of potion, to forge a connection with the elementals and then overcome one in battle and bind it to a totem. You possess the reagents and recipe to craft a potion. Brew this potion in preparation for connecting with the elements. Awards 1 Sapta.

-[x] Further investigate the Flamebender's Tome, a book detailing some of the magical traditions of your clan. You've read through most of it and have a good idea of what it contains, you choose to investigate Flameseer

-[x] Take magical books.
-[x] Take all personal papers including letters and similar.

[Write in] You decide to give the papers to someone else
-[x] Ask Vark to bring the material to Orgrimmar to be translated. If it's anything of use, please forward it to the Warchief, though we'd like a copy to read of each material when we get there ourselves. If the material contains information useful to the Horde, it should help him make a name for himself (but please remember to give us some credit, too).
 
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I figured that we'd have time enough to do that later.
You can indeed but you've got your return home coming up
We'll get some sapta this turn, and next turn we'll connect with the spirit of fire with it.
To be clear, you have 1 set of sapta components now. Making a potion out of them and connecting with an element would take 1 action. You'd then have to collect the ingredients for another potion and brew it etc. As such if you wanted to connect with both fire and earth you could do so in 3 action total.
 
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I figured that we'd have time enough to do that later.
Yeah, I thought the same about the sapta, but admittedly it's better to get on with it now and become a mage-swordsman. Next time we get cornered by foes with no Vark around and not in "tutorial mode", saying "It's not what it looks like! I can explain" is not going to cut it:tongue:
The argument makes sense, so I modified my previous vote to Version 3

p.s. I added in that the documents should go to different recipients: it's not worth it to overburden Vark with the bestiary & geometry books, those should stay with the Trolls IMO. If you don't agree we can have version 3a/3b
 
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Thought I'd put some notes on some of the action since the last chapter in more detail.

In general how much direction and clarification do you all want? I'm inclined to nudge, but I realise sometimes QMs are regarded as pushing the story in certain directions and that's disliked. Let me know what you think

That'll mean we might have to help him fight those people that we probably don't want to, which might be detrimental to diplomatic efforts.
Bloodbrotherhood, like many social customs, is fairly complex in what it would actually require. The general aspect is indeed a familial bond, but it doesn't mean you'd be a slave or have to agree to everything. You could say 'actually Vark how about we dont do this' and if you persuade him that's fine. Comparably, if you one day got a letter from him invoking your blood brotherhood of 'hey come help me with this war' then you'd have to go. However it's pretty sacred so parties involved won't invoke it if its not necessary. He might be perfectly happy going off fighting stuff and you might not hear from him till you're already powerful etc.
In character, though, I think we'd choose to make this blood bond, but out of character, I'm pretty sure it'll pull us into more trouble than we're prepared for.
Good reasoning, the reason you have the choice is because you've got the Prudent trait, which somewhat moderates the Honourbound one.
can you remind me what we've gone through in the book so I don't suggest something redundant?
Just thought I'd bring this up again and note that further research into any of these issues may bring specific knowledge. For example if the Exodar crashes and you need to read up on the Draenei again it could be useful to read your book again even though you've already read about the Draenei.

I'm also open to adding other things into the book if you have something specific. So if you asked 'does the book contain X'
We should speak with Vark and Angrais more.
Keep in mind you've spent 6 months not really interacting with Angrais. You're not going to become friends especially quickly. To use the ME example everyone was on the Normandy, various people had established reputations and therefore Shepard and Grunt got along. Comparably you've interacted with Vark a reasonable amount in the last few turns so you get the options for more interactions.
would not offering the blood bond snub Vark and offend his sense of honor?
In hindsight I should have had Vark offer it to present this question more clearly. Not going to change it but its a positive action, you're offering something to remove your debt, its not him offering it.
only requires clandestine caravan defense from local creeps,
It would require going through either Desolace, full of centaurs and demon worshipping parties, or through the Razorfen. There's Horde outposts there because they've been able to go relatively quietly, but keep in mind the other parties are perfectly active. The Quilboar are all over the place in the southern barrens and regularly raiding Horde caravans
I don't see how Vark expects this plan to go
I entirely accept your points on the difficulties of sea travel, and you're right that Vark hasn't entirely thought this through, but that's also because characters have limited information etc and their own traits. Good reasoning in general though.
I was aware that appeal to authority might make MC a sycophant
Also good reasoning on this, and good to be aware of the effects of making such an appeal.
Could we not ask for some advice from Theramore? Maybe lean on Jaina a bit so we can train merchant fleets of our own?
Little profit for them, they'd begin to lose their influence if there's another sea power in the area and its a direct danger to them protecting their supply lines from the Alliance. "Teach me how to beat you up" and so on.
Too busy to post reasoning, sorry.
Threre's been plenty of reasoning by others so its fine
 
[x] Plan: Get on with it V.3

Yeah, huge thanks to @FractiousDay and his GM advice on Sapta (I almost forgot about it, and, yep, going all MAGIC may impress Neeru).
Only thing I think could be edit-removed is "but please, remember to give us some credit, too". Let Vark have it all, and if he feels that he should mention us, too, that'd be his choice and based on his own sense of honor.
 
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