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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Deathbybunnies said:
Okay sure, but even it that's the case it cannot be true that "Morghur" will attack Mathilde for engaging dialogue, with the facts of the case being as they are.
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It can absolutely still be true that Mathilde approaching would get attacked, because we don't have information. Maybe it attacks everything in a certain radius without IFF signatures or passwords. Maybe it attacks humans that approach because of the Kurgan. Is finding out worth the risk? Moreover, is finding out worth the risk in a way that we can be convincing to our fellow expedition leaders?

Remember that we are voting for action suggestions at this stage, not what we're actually doing. The leading actions will be what we suggest, and I have not heard any arguments that sound like they would convince Snorri, who wants to turn back, or the knights, who rightly gave up on scouting for information because we're in the Chaos Wastes.

Ericwinter said:
Actually, you know what I find really weird? The Yusak shaman used the Dwarven name for Morghur. Why would they do that?

@BoneyM is that noticeable enough to be a piece of evidence?
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Aren't we speaking in Khazalid?
 
[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] ACTION: Turn back
[X] ACTION: Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
[X] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
 
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ReImagined said:
t can absolutely still be true that Mathilde approaching would get attacked, because we don't have information. Maybe it attacks everything in a certain radius without IFF signatures or passwords. Maybe it attacks humans that approach because of the Kurgan. Is finding out worth the risk? Moreover, is finding out worth the risk in a way that we can be convincing to our fellow expedition leaders?
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Borek does not let a creature bound only by the IFF programmed into it by its masters caress him like family. There is no risk.
 
@BoneyM
Having passed through some of the more properly chaotic Chaos Wastes on the way to here, how would Mathilde rate her ability to move through the landscape on her own? If Mathilde stayed to seek out more information, while the rest of the expedition turned back, would she expect to be able to meet back up with them?
 
I would say that there's a possibility hat even if Morghur is actually a disguised runemaster or otherwise sort of on our side, he'll still attack if approached. Because what if Morghur is an illusion, but the rest of the Beastmen are not. He might be willing to play the part for a Dum dwarf, but not for a human going in to talk. Might attack to keep up the image of "totally a scary beast man guys" intact.
 
[x] THEORY: The contingency plan of Karak Dum involved placing runes on Dawi flesh in order to enhance their abilities. Doing so has transformed them into beings resembling Beastmen.
[x] THEORY: That's not Morghur. Morghur constantly changes his surroundings, Morghur does not make reality more stable near himself, Morghur does not display affection, Morghur does not not attack people, Morghur would never stay here unless he was bound, and if he was bound he'd be struggling constantly to get out. The shuddering of reality can be faked by Runesmiths if they wanted.
[x] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
[x] ACTION: We need to verify if the situation here is stable, or if it's something that will come back to haunt the Karaz Ankor and Empire if left ignored.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Borek does not let a creature bound only by the IFF programmed into it by its masters caress him like family. There is no risk.
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Claiming that there's no risk in walking past the giant graveyard of Kurgan corpses to the image of a Beastman demigod in the middle of the Chaos Wastes is... unconvincing.


BoneyM said:
A few minutes later at a much safer distance from what appears to be the front lines, Borek is nodding to a crestfallen Snorri. "One of my cousins spent three days camping outside the gates because he forgot the pass-phrases and the Winds were blowing too hard for the Runemasters to confirm his identity," He says. "Daresay these lads have learned even harsher lessons than the Chaos Wastes taught us. Probably had a dozen rescues, and much grander than this one."
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There would be risk even if that is a runemaster.


ninjafish said:
Well im gonna be frustrated chasing this pointless red herring.

So fairs, fair.
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Again, we are compiling a list of actions to suggest to the others, not a single action that we immediately go out and do.
 
BurnNote said:
The preferred term is "Monsterlover". But sadly and despite my best efforts, that label doesn't apply to Mathilde.
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I would like to remind you that Panoramia has perforated so many living beings with thorns that she kinda forgot it'd look scary from the outside.

Mathilde is dating a terraforming human-shaped monstrosity of high pedigree that chews up greenskins with thorny vines, spreading madness among them and that had to be intimidated into following her orders to not join the fighting. Panoramia staying behind to do gardening in the Karak-8-Peaks is not for her nor Mathilde's sake, it is for the sake of all civilised people of the world who are safer outside of her vast shadow.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Borek does not let a creature bound only by the IFF programmed into it by its masters caress him like family. There is no risk.
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I would not bet on the Borek's mindset. He could well consider that a suitable part of the punishment for the crimes of his people. "We've already defiled such much of what is sacred, what more is this?"
Or he could just be out of fucks. His fuck fields were all of one kind, and as is the danger with all mono-cultures, they all got blown up in a single event.

Mind, I don't think this is the actual beastman demigod, but saying that there's no risk is taking it too far.
 
Feel like the people putting out the idea this is an illusion because it isnt corrupt enough to be chaos, are ignoring the implications of Borek's response and using OOC concepts on a character we've never met.

Your arguing that a Beast Prince isnt being enough of a beast prince for it to be what it seems. You are regecting the reality in front you, because it doesn't enterlock with what you expect.
 
Omegahugger said:
I would like to remind you that Panoramia has perforated so many living beings with thorns that she kinda forgot it'd look scary from the outside.

Mathilde is dating a terraforming human-shaped monstrosity of high pedigree that chews up greenskins with thorny vines, spreading madness among them and that had to be intimidated into following her orders to not join the fighting. Panoramia staying behind to do gardening in the Karak-8-Peaks is not for her nor Mathilde's sake, it is for the sake of all civilised people of the world who are safer outside of her vast shadow.
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That's kind of you to say, but my heart and mind can't believe it until she makes her own magical superweapon.
 
Didn't read all the thread thus far, so tell me if it has already been theorized, but my speculation for this is that Morghur was an attempt by Dum to create an artificial Ancestor God, pumping a Dwarven Soul full of power in an attempt to elevate them to godhood. It would explain why Morghur always reincarnates - Dwarven Souls that aren't buried with Gazuls blessings stay in the world to be reborn. Its not a Chaos Blessing, it is in his nature.

Morghur was the prototype, created before the Great War against Chaos. And he went completely nuts, somehow escaping Dum and dying in the Wastes without being properly buried, proceeding to rattle around the wheel of soul reincarnation like a loose bolt since then. And what we are seeing here is another attempt at the same, an artificial god created by Dum as they had nothing left to loose. They probably sealed the project away after the failure with Morghur, but the need was great enough during the invasion that they made another attempt at it, and they somehow managed - at least this Godling seems somewhat stable and controllable, and they were able to make use of his similiarity to Morghur to gain control of an army of beastmen.

This explains why Morghur is so unique among Chaos Creatures with his reincarnation mechanic, why Borek would know about it beforehand and why this "Morghur" is so different from the real Master of Skulls.
 
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CornyBones said:
Feel like the people putting out the idea this is an illusion because it isnt corrupt enough to be chaos, are ignoring the implications of Borek's response and using OOC concepts on a character we've never met.

Your arguing that a Beast Prince isnt being enough of a beast prince for it to be what it seems. You are regecting the reality in front you, because it doesn't enterlock with what you expect.
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No, we are rejecting the idea that a thing that is ostensibly a thing famous for constantly and unstoppably twisting reality like a pretzel isn't constantly and unstoppably twisting reality like a pretzel, therefore it isn't actually the thing famous for constantly and unstoppably twisting reality like a pretzel. It's a small*, but significant difference.

*Not actually small - in fact, quite large.
 
BurnNote said:
That's kind of you to say, but my heart and mind can't believe it until she makes her own magical superweapon.
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A true monster doesn't need a superweapon, for she can spread terror all on her lonesome.

It's not like Cython developed their own weapon... Nor did anyone on Mathilde date list bar Algard I think? And mind you, IIRC Algard was lower than even Qrech on that thing.
 
BurnNote said:
That's kind of you to say, but my heart and mind can't believe it until she makes her own magical superweapon.
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Foolish fool! We are the super weapon, crafted and maintained from the shade of lush trees and via the insidious roots of her conspiracy! Shaped into the perfect wild card to grow to any situation!

And us finally meeting her was the beginning of proper deployment, now that she had performed well in the low scale test inviroments! It is all coming together!
 
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.

[X] ACTION: Turn back
 
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