- Location
- United States
[X] ACTION: Turn back
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
And if we just up and go home , what are the odds that in a few decades or centuries, possibly not outside the scope of this quest, the fallout of Karag Dum here follows us back?
We have seen something we barely even comprehend the implications of. We at least need to know if we'll be coming back to the Empire with the Worst Kind of Bad News, or not.
Yes, thankfully.
- Location
- Germany
That part is not that hard, since she could literally never see what Runes do with magic.
So all it takes is a "mundane" Illusion here, they don't need something to stand up to magesight, all runic effects do that inherently.
Max Uristwell
Custodian of the Toobs
- Location
- United Kingdom
...he's a massive distance away from his usual stomping grounds, not pursuing the one thing that remains constant in his mind, didn't mutate a mortal that got close to him without heavy-duty divine protection, isn't doing anything similar to his environment (both of which are abilities that he cannot turn off and can barely limit the range of), is greeting a Dwarf as if they were close kin, is worshiping an apparently uncorrupted mountain as if it were a herdstone, isn't indulging in Beastmen's pathological need to destroy the works of civilisation when confronted with the Monitors...
Everything about the idea of this being a fake Morghur is nonsensical, but so is everything about the idea of this being the real Morghur. This whole situation is nonsensical.
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Consistent illusion of whatever kind is unlikely to work for 200 years in Chaos Wastes. I think whatever we see is real or close enough to real.
[x] THEORY: Morghur was reborn as a dwarf and at least partially protected by the Valayan rites, subsequently those protections were relaxed to allow him to mutate physically while retaining self-control and his dwarven identity.
[x] ACTION: Persuade the Expedition to stay put for a day while you sneak to the gates of the Karak and try to have a chat about it.
[x] Action: Pray for guidance. In this realm reality is more malleable, perhaps our gods will be able to reach us more easily here.
[x] THEORY: The Dwarfs have control over Cor-Dum and is likely being controlled by Karak Dum's King or Leader, They are doing this to protect Dum and keep Chaos from getting hold of it, there is an ongoing siege to break this defense with a nearby source providing power to the desert to weaken the defenders.
[x] THEORY: Morghur has been bound to Karak Dum's waystone, which is acting as a psudo-herdstone. Morghur now sees dwarfs of Karak Dum as allies. This waystone manipulation may also be the cause of the weird geography. Based on Boreks last words, this was a longstanding contingency plan held by the dwarfs of Karak Dum. He is ashamed because it's a desecration of one of the greatest works of the Ancestor Gods.
[x] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum are alive and uncorrupted by Chaos, but have resorted to truly drastic measures to survive, probably undertaken by their controversial "Rune Masters", which involves having these beastmen or beastmen-appearing creatures defending the karak for the dwarves. We can assume that this is all in favour of the dwarves by Morghur's easy acceptance and non-destruction of Borek as well as Borek's mutual acceptance of the beastman. The idea of Rune Masters being critically involved is the certainty that some form of magic was used to create this whole situation, including the odd weather, and the Rune Masters' lack of corruption is supported by the lesser level of ambient dark magic in the area, even directly around Morghur himself.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] ACTION: Attempt closer examination of Morghur, the beastmen, and the forest.
[x] ACTION: Form up the steam-wagons for defence.
[x] ACTION: Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
[x] ACTION: Infiltrate Karag Dum to gather information.
[x] THEORY: Gor Dum is either a mutated dwarf or controlled by a dwarf, look at how he reacted to Borek.
This is the Chaos wastes, seeing something we barely even comprehend the implications of is called 'Tuesday'. On Wednesdays your mind breaks from things mortals were not meant to know and on Fridays Slaanesh has a beach party on the shores of a pink ocean inhabited by three eyed sloths.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
There are a decent chunk of theories that, if true, would mean that we could actually safely ignore this, go home, and declare that there are no dwarves to be saved in Karak Dum. In character, at least.
The real threat would be the thread tearing itself apart trying to discover the truth behind "the one that got away", the one mystery we didn't solve. Hopefully a consensus of what "obviously happened" would settle in quickly as previous unsolved mysteries have, but if it doesn't...
- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Omegahugger I apologize for accusing you of arguing in bad faith. I misused the term and did not know how to properly articulate what I was feeling or how I was perceiving your arguments. I still disagree with your conclusions, but you did not deserve to be accused like I did.
- Location
- Greece
While I am now mostly neutral on "is this or isn't Morghul" debate (although, whoever this is, it is clearly not corruptive which points to them not being chaos), I have to say there are ore factors to be considered here.
Are those real beastmen, or not?
This doesn't have to be an illussion, could be a construct.
Does any chaos worshipper that notices this thing emits suspiciously litle dhar live to tell the tale?
what could the radical runesmiths have created?
Wasn't there a hint that Morghul like beings have appeared before him a lot in history?
Fact is, the biggest thing the "this is not Morghul" faction uses as a clue is that this thing is so different from Morghul in everything but surface appearance that it can't be Morghul.
Well, yes, this whole situation being so nonsensical people have to grasp for straws to create a logical theory is what I posited in the first place, so we are very much in agreement.
Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Eh, the mundane illusion doesn't explain
A: the missing mountains
B: the heat
C: the massive number of bones from Kurgan tribes well outside the walls of Dum
D: the forests
E: Borek's shame. Again, here's his response to dealing with chaos dwarves:
An illusion is so much less of an issue with that, whereas his reaction here is so much worse.
- Location
- MS, USA
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] [ACTION]: Turn back.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[x] [ACTION]: Turn back.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
I'll have to say, if Morghur is a fake, not only is it a fake good enough to fool both Mathilde and the thread, but it's also a fake good enough to fool two centuries of Kurgans who believe it to be a holy figure.
And if that's true, I don't see whatKarak Karag Dum has to be ashamed of.
(why did no one tell me I was using the wrong word).
And if that's true, I don't see what
(why did no one tell me I was using the wrong word).
A thought on infiltration: Math can't possibly be the first to follow the Shadowed of the Eight to approach Karak Dum with the intention of infiltration. Her motives may differ, seeking to find out just what the hell is going on rather than trying to find a weakness to exploit, but I don't think Math will be an outside context problem for the Karak.
- Pronouns
- It/They
That all assumes we come back at all.
Let's not be the dumbass wizard who fucks everything by poking things we don't even begin to understand.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
It's okay.
Even I recognize that my theories rely on a lot of assumptions and guesswork, I'd just like to argue that they aren't baseless. C:
And "That isn't actually Morghur" is still a very real possibility, even if it isn't one I personally buy into.
[x] [ACTION]: Turn back.
Because it's not really a meaningful difference in this case. GW liked to build rich languages filled with meaning, but they loved to stuff in references, and Karag Dum is Karag when it should be Karak so it can be a reference to Mount Doom.
- Location
- Upon the back of the Great A'Tuin
Three things: Out of Character Knowledge
- Location
- Who knows?
[X] [Action] wait nearby and observe. It shouldn't be nearly as dangerous as it seems, and that allows us to gather additional clues.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.
[X] ACTION: Infiltrate Karag Dum to gather information.
[X] THEORY: Omegahugger
[X] ACTION: Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
[X] THEORY: Gor Dum is either a mutated dwarf or controlled by a dwarf, look at how he reacted to Borek.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum may have found a way to create and control beastmen.
[X] THEORY: Things are not what they appear as at the first look. Nothing Mathilde knows allows for what they are witnessing to be the reality.
[X] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included
Ahaha ha what. Wgat.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.
[X] ACTION: Infiltrate Karag Dum to gather information.
[X] THEORY: Omegahugger
[X] ACTION: Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
[X] THEORY: Gor Dum is either a mutated dwarf or controlled by a dwarf, look at how he reacted to Borek.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum may have found a way to create and control beastmen.
[X] THEORY: Things are not what they appear as at the first look. Nothing Mathilde knows allows for what they are witnessing to be the reality.
[X] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included
Ahaha ha what. Wgat.
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- Location
- Pittsburgh PA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
[x] ACTION: We need to verify if the situation here is stable, or if it's something that will come back to haunt the Karaz Ankor and Empire if left ignored.
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Morghur was reborn as a dwarf and at least partially protected by the Valayan rites, subsequently those protections were relaxed to allow him to mutate physically while retaining self-control and his dwarven identity.
[x] Action: Pray for guidance. In this realm reality is more malleable, perhaps our gods will be able to reach us more easily here.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Omegahugger
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] Theory - There are no Beastmen, only Dryads, Elgi and illusions
[x] Theory - There are no Beastmen, only Dryads and illusions.
[x] ACTION: We need information. The Yusak have been in this area for long enough, they must know something of what happened. The wagons will pull back to their territory, and while they are en-route I will attempt to directly ask Morghur (From a distance, using a spell) what has become of Karag Dum. If the worst comes to worst we will already be retreating and I will be fast enough to catch up. We will figure out our further course of action once we know more.
[x] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
I've got not a single clue so going with everything that looks like it makes sense
edited in a later theory
[x] ACTION: We need to verify if the situation here is stable, or if it's something that will come back to haunt the Karaz Ankor and Empire if left ignored.
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Morghur was reborn as a dwarf and at least partially protected by the Valayan rites, subsequently those protections were relaxed to allow him to mutate physically while retaining self-control and his dwarven identity.
[x] Action: Pray for guidance. In this realm reality is more malleable, perhaps our gods will be able to reach us more easily here.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Omegahugger
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] Theory - There are no Beastmen, only Dryads, Elgi and illusions
[x] Theory - There are no Beastmen, only Dryads and illusions.
[x] ACTION: We need information. The Yusak have been in this area for long enough, they must know something of what happened. The wagons will pull back to their territory, and while they are en-route I will attempt to directly ask Morghur (From a distance, using a spell) what has become of Karag Dum. If the worst comes to worst we will already be retreating and I will be fast enough to catch up. We will figure out our further course of action once we know more.
[x] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
I've got not a single clue so going with everything that looks like it makes sense
edited in a later theory
Last edited:
- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
[x] ACTION: We need to verify if the situation here is stable, or if it's something that will come back to haunt the Karaz Ankor and Empire if left ignored.
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Morghur was reborn as a dwarf and at least partially protected by the Valayan rites, subsequently those protections were relaxed to allow him to mutate physically while retaining self-control and his dwarven identity.
[x] Action: Pray for guidance. In this realm reality is more malleable, perhaps our gods will be able to reach us more easily here.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Omegahugger
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] Theory - There are no Beastmen, only Dryads, Elgi and illusions
[x] Theory - There are no Beastmen, only Dryads and illusions.
[x] ACTION: We need information. The Yusak have been in this area for long enough, they must know something of what happened. The wagons will pull back to their territory, and while they are en-route I will attempt to directly ask Morghur (From a distance, using a spell) what has become of Karag Dum. If the worst comes to worst we will already be retreating and I will be fast enough to catch up. We will figure out our further course of action once we know more.
[x] ACTION: We need to verify if the situation here is stable, or if it's something that will come back to haunt the Karaz Ankor and Empire if left ignored.
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Morghur was reborn as a dwarf and at least partially protected by the Valayan rites, subsequently those protections were relaxed to allow him to mutate physically while retaining self-control and his dwarven identity.
[x] Action: Pray for guidance. In this realm reality is more malleable, perhaps our gods will be able to reach us more easily here.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Omegahugger
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] Theory - There are no Beastmen, only Dryads, Elgi and illusions
[x] Theory - There are no Beastmen, only Dryads and illusions.
[x] ACTION: We need information. The Yusak have been in this area for long enough, they must know something of what happened. The wagons will pull back to their territory, and while they are en-route I will attempt to directly ask Morghur (From a distance, using a spell) what has become of Karag Dum. If the worst comes to worst we will already be retreating and I will be fast enough to catch up. We will figure out our further course of action once we know more.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Things are not what they appear as at the first look. Nothing Mathilde knows allows for what they are witnessing to be the reality.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] ACTION: Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
[x] THEORY: Things are not what they appear as at the first look. Nothing Mathilde knows allows for what they are witnessing to be the reality.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] ACTION: Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
Speaker4thesilen
Superpower: Common Sense
- Location
- Noneya Business
I'm not reading 40 pages of discussion to find out if this has been suggested already. Just want to bring up the possibility that what we're seeing is a/many Gronti being used as deliberate deception.