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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] ACTION: Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
[X] ACTION: Attempt to contact the nearby Kurgan tribes for information.
[X] ACTION: Attempt closer examination of Morghur, the beastmen, and the forest.
[X] ACTION: Infiltrate Karag Dum to gather information.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.

[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
 
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.
[X] [ACTION]: Turn back.
 
BoneyM said:
Though Borek's pace is steady, his process across the sand is anything but, as the heat-shimmer embraces him and sends mirages of his image shimmering to and fro.
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Sounds like magic is exaggerating what actual heat shimmers can do here, because that's not what happens in reality - which really makes it clear that Mathilde can't reliably distinguish illusion and reality in a realm this keyed to unreality.

I mean, heat shimmers this far north aren't an option without magical messing around anyway.
 
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qwolfs said:
His beard might not be high fashion, but he's been stuck in the chaos wastes for almost 200 years so that's forgivable. Otherwise, a most eligible bachelor, if a little tall. :V
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I wouldn't kick him out before making breakfast!
065tdsa said:
The child-sized heads may be a little much though. Even if they are probably Elgi heads.
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Oh, I've no doubt those are intended as nothing more than a conversation starter, he's probably just shy or something. I bet they're just moulded plastic anyway.
 
Andres110 said:
I think this bit of the theory is wrong. Morghur's display of affection towards Borek looked beyond simple slavery. If I had to guess, one of Borek's relatives, a member of the royal family, offered themselves up to host Morghur's spirit, someone who knew Borek and who Borek knew in turn. Or perhaps the elves bound Morghur's spirit to the royal family so the next child born would be Morghur, who through artifice, magic, nurture, or some combination of the three was redeemed rather than enslaved.
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I was thinking along those lines too, but that doesn't quite fit the 'contingency they were very reluctant to use, but ultimately had to' part. Crafting an elaborate scenario where the Shadowgave would be bound to a Dawi only really makes sense if they were 100% convinced of its necessity and intending to use it.

My prior joke comment aside, the way it fits together best is if someone (considering the situation, likely elves) offered this solution when the Dawi were still figuring out what to with the baby Shadowgave born to a dwarf mother. That, or this is was a secret collaboration which Karag Dum was generally unaware of.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
The thing with Morghur is that he is incredible insane, with the one common thread being loving having a scrap with Athel Loren, right?

He is killed and reborn over and over again. Presumably, he soon goes mad as a hat after being born/growing to a certain point.

Forget enslaving him, a runic item to allow the reborn Morghur to simply not go crazy with what's probably millenia of accumulated memories sounds way, way more plausible.

I imagine "Morghur" is from the royal line of Karag Dum, given the affection with Borek.

Hell, do we know the circunstances that led to Borek being the one to leave Dum? If Morghur was killed right before the Great Coming of Chaos and reborn as his sister or something, that'd make it plausible for him to not be surprised when The Corruptor welcomes him home.

Maybe the reason he left with a bag of diamonds was to seek help for what to do with his unwillingly corrupted kin, but then an Everchosen showed up and everything went tits up?

Guys, is the Ranaldian Soul Theft foreshadowing for this?
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First, Beastmen are born from Humans. Not Dwarves. That's how beastmen were created, that is how they work. Only way to turn a dwarf into a beastman would be with focused effort on par with that trick the Horned Rat does to turn people into Skaven.

Second, you can't make a runic item that'll make Morghur sane because insane is his default and if you did then he'd stop being Morghur and probably lose most of his power, which the fake Morghur is pretending to have.

Third, if you somehow did this anyway then the Chaos Gods would be ultra mad you stole their favorite toy and put everything into freeing him, as opposed to this barebones effort of the Kurgan tribes.

In conclusion, that's not Morghur.
 
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[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] THEORY: Omegahugger

as for action :
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.

I would at the very least scout the other kurgans armies to see what they are really doing (and our side quest objectif is probably with one of them)
 
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
 
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
 
So I have a theory. Its a *little* metagame-y being based on WoBoney posts from before this.

This picture is the table BoneyM used to detarmain what happened to Karak Dum.




So given the picture above and what happened in canon (Some Dwarfs survived and they stayed traditional) we could makes some guesses as to what the axis and colomns here are.

My personal theory is that the colomn canon and us share is "Some Dwarfs Survived" on the "How Many Surived" Axis. With the other Axis being "How Radical Did They Get".
 
das_slash said:
A somehow sane Morghul that seems friendly to dwarfs is guarding an still partially functional Karag Dum, while chaos is attacking.
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Right yes, that is one possible theory. It could also not be Morghur at all. The leading theory does not really approach the problem (it does at least say that the Karak likely still stands), of what the hell it is that we are seeing. And the Theory on third place is basically exactly the first one, except less verbose.
 
Votes taken from others:
[x] Action: Look for the source of the desert.
[x] THEORY: That's not Morghur. Morghur constantly changes his surroundings, Morghur does not make reality more stable near himself, Morghur does not display affection, Morghur would never stay here unless he was bound, and if he was bound he'd be struggling constantly to get out. The shuddering of reality can be faked by Runesmiths if they wanted.
[x] ACTION: Demand the Runesmith in the Morghur Fursuit presents Borek so you can scream at him for not mentioning he was taking you to the Capital of Dwarven Illusion Craft. You would have brought more ink and paper.
[x] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum are alive and uncorrupted by Chaos, but have resorted to truly drastic measures to survive, probably undertaken by their controversial "Rune Masters", which involves having these beastmen or beastmen-appearing creatures defending the karak for the dwarves. We can assume that this is all in favour of the dwarves by Morghur's easy acceptance and non-destruction of Borek as well as Borek's mutual acceptance of the beastman. The idea of Rune Masters being critically involved is the certainty that some form of magic was used to create this whole situation, including the odd weather, and the Rune Masters' lack of corruption is supported by the lesser level of ambient dark magic in the area, even directly around Morghur himself.

My additions:
[X] THEORY: There's some sort of strange illusion magic going on, and it's not visible even to extremely good mage sight. Out of all known sources of magic only Dawi Runes are capable of that - so the works of Dawi Runesmiths are still in use.
[x] Action: Pray for guidance. In this realm reality is more malleable, perhaps our gods will be able to reach us more easily here.
 
DragonParadox said:
I think @Alratan has the right of it. He was being reborn as a dwarf, killed the mother as he was born. The runemasters looked at the baby Morghur and saw an opportunity to protect the hold.
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Yeah, the Rites of Valaya stop a dwarf being magically mutated. Morghur is traditionally born as another species and then mutates to become the monstrous horror as/after birth. If they performed the rights fast enough they may have been able to stop the process before it took full hold.

Later on, when the Hold was in danger of falling, and they became truly desperate, the runemasters may then have been able to selectively remove part of the protection allowing the unfortunate dwarf's body to mutate while still protecting his mind and soul.

That's why Borek was disappointed but not shocked. He was aware that his relative might have to make this sacrifice and allow himself to be mutated into a horrific monster, but was hoping that it would never come to that. That's also why he knew other dwarves would see it as heresy, as it would be deliberately condemning a dwarf to that fate by partially removing their Goddesses' protection.
 
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[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] ACTION: Turn back
 
[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] ACTION: Attempt to contact the nearby Kurgan tribes for information.
[X] ACTION: Look for the source of the desert.
 
Alratan said:
Yeah, the Rites of Valaya stop a dwarf being magically mutatde. Morghur is traditionally born as another species and then mutates to become the monstrous horror as/after birth. If they performed the rights fast enough they may have been able to stop the process before it took full hold.
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Morghur is traditionally born as a human. Specifically a human because beastmen are corrupted humans, that is their origin and humans are the only species ever known to have birthed them.

This is because humans are more corruptible in general, and Chaos isn't completely stupid and won't waste power trying to mutate the elder races when they have so many protections specifically to stop this, both created by their own efforts and built into them by the Old Ones.
 
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