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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] [ACTION]: Turn back.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum may have found a way to create and control beastmen.
[x] THEORY: Gor Dum is either a mutated dwarf or controlled by a dwarf, look at how he reacted to Borek.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[x] THEORY: Omegahugger
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I thought I'd try to write down a summary of some of the theories floating around, mainly to prevent excessive repetition. Let me know if I miss anything.

  • Karak Dum has enslaved/tamed Morghur
  • Karak Dum raised Morghur
  • Karak Dum has allied with Morghur
  • Karak Dum has submitted to Morghur
  • Karak Dum have been turned into beastmen
  • Karak Dum are now chaos dwarves
  • There is more than one Morghur, this isn't the one we recognise from history
  • This is a golem created/bred by Dum in Morghur's image
  • This is a chaos illusion
  • This is a dwarf runemaster illusion
  • Morghur is stabilising reality. This means he's a Runemaster in disguise
  • Morghur is making reality flinch. This means he's a Runemaster in disguise
  • Borek is the demon known as the Changeling in disguise and this is a chaos plot
  • The waystone has been turned into a herdstone
  • The woodelves planted the forest
  • Morghur is a Dryad
  • Morghur is an ancestor god (Okay, no one has said that yet, but I thought I'd throw it in)
I still favour the enslaved/tamed theory—it feels like the simplest explanation to me (occams razor and all that).
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  • To everyone's surprise, Mork.
 
What do we actually know about Borek's origins? How old is he, exactly? Was he ever a resident of Dum, or his he a descendant of emigres?
 
[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
 
Honestly, I just want to see if they are a dwarf hold with a weird defensive mechanisms or an active threat to the old world.

Bound Morghur is just chilling with you and killing dudes? Cool, no prob. You'll get a grudge, but we'll make sure it stays at bottom on the list of priorities.
There's an ever-growing band of beastmen lead by pretty much Dawi-Zharr? Ok... that's a real problem then.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
What do we actually know about Borek's origins? How old is he, exactly? Was he ever a resident of Dum, or his he a descendant of emigres?
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From the cast page:
BoneyM said:
Borek Forkbeard, Leader of the Karag Dum Expedition and Envoy of Karag Dum, commands the Alriksson.
Clan Grimnar: This Dwarf is a member of the Royal Clan of Karag Dum.
Driven: Borek was sent by Karag Dum to seek reinforcements almost two centuries ago, and will stop at nothing to finally succeed.
Great Beard: Having passed the age of 200, this Dwarf is considered a voice of authority in both their Clan and their Craft.
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[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum are alive and uncorrupted by Chaos, but have resorted to truly drastic measures to survive, probably undertaken by their controversial "Rune Masters", which involves having these beastmen or beastmen-appearing creatures defending the karak for the dwarves. We can assume that this is all in favour of the dwarves by Morghur's easy acceptance and non-destruction of Borek as well as Borek's mutual acceptance of the beastman. The idea of Rune Masters being critically involved is the certainty that some form of magic was used to create this whole situation, including the odd weather, and the Rune Masters' lack of corruption is supported by the lesser level of ambient dark magic in the area, even directly around Morghur himself.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.
[X] [Theory] All we know is that it is friendly and non chaotic. That is enough for now.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] ACTION: Infiltrate Karag Dum to gather information.
[X] ACTION: Attempt to contact the nearby Kurgan tribes for information.
[X] [Action] wait nearby and observe. It shouldn't be nearly as dangerous as it seems, and that allows us to gather additional clues.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I thought I'd try to write down a summary of some of the theories floating around, mainly to prevent excessive repetition. Let me know if I miss anything.

  • Karak Dum has enslaved/tamed Morghur
  • Karak Dum raised Morghur
  • Karak Dum has allied with Morghur
  • Karak Dum has submitted to Morghur
  • Karak Dum have been turned into beastmen
  • Karak Dum are now chaos dwarves
  • There is more than one Morghur, this isn't the one we recognise from history
  • This is a golem created/bred by Dum in Morghur's image
  • This is a chaos illusion
  • This is a dwarf runemaster illusion
  • Morghur is stabilising reality. This means he's a Runemaster in disguise
  • Morghur is making reality flinch. This means he's a Runemaster in disguise
  • Borek is the demon known as the Changeling in disguise and this is a chaos plot
  • The waystone has been turned into a herdstone
  • The woodelves planted the forest
  • Morghur is a Dryad
  • Morghur is an ancestor god (Okay, no one has said that yet, but I thought I'd throw it in)
I still favour the enslaved/tamed theory—it feels like the simplest explanation to me (occams razor and all that).
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Occam's razor is about the simplest explanation while kooking at all the clues, not the simplest explanation period.

All the clues point to the fact that it cant be Morghum, because hed have to be on 2 places at once, (Borek knows the guardian, Borek fled Dum when it fell, Dum fell before the end of the chaos war, Morghum was seen elsewhere shortly after the war, this guardian does not leave according to the Kurgan) which violates Occam's razor.
 
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[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
 
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
 
storryeater said:
Occam's razor is about the simplest explanation while having all the clues.

All the clues point to the fact that it cant be Morghum, because hed have to be on 2 places at once, (Borek knows the guardian, Borek fled Dum when it fell, Dum fell before the end of the chaos war, Morghum was seen elsewhere shortly after the war, this guardian does not leave according to the Kurgan) which violates Occam's razor.
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Actually that's not true. Morghur 200 years ago, before the war of chaos was fighting in bretonnia. Borek left Dum during the great war right?
 
storryeater said:
Occam's razor is about the simplest explanation while kooking at all the clues, not the simplest explanation period.

All the clues point to the fact that it cant be Morghum, because hed have to be on 2 places at once, (Borek knows the guardian, Borek fled Dum when it fell, Dum fell before the end of the chaos war, Morghum was seen elsewhere shortly after the war, this guardian does not leave according to the Kurgan) which violates Occam's razor.
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Source? I thought he was last seen before the war, not after?
 
Does anybody remember the times when Borek was referred to as not matching expectations and the opinion of others not really aligning with how he actually was? I seem to remember Mathilde thinking that there was something weird about that, but i cannot for the life of me find the updates where it happens.

Part of it could be due to the opinion of Dum due to the schism, but i am actually getting more and more sus of there also being something wrong with the expedition itself, not just Dum.
 
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storryeater said:
All the clues point to the fact that it cant be Morghum, because hed have to be on 2 places at once, (Borek knows the guardian, Borek fled Dum when it fell, Dum fell before the end of the chaos war, Morghum was seen elsewhere shortly after the war, this guardian does not leave according to the Kurgan) which violates Occam's razor.
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He wasn't seen elsewhere shortly after the war, though. He was seen elsewhere shortly before
BoneyM said:
You make the mental conversion to the Imperial Calendar - 2246 - and you're pretty sure you know where this is going. "But it wasn't. They were right."

Thorek sighs. "It is easy to see that now. But from what I've been told - and it seems to be true - that century was a tumultuous time in the Old World. High King Alrik had died in battle at the Battle of Black Falls, Bretonnia was tearing itself apart over succession, humans marched on Nehekhara time and time again and agitated the Tomb Kings into a great deal of activity beyond their borders. Worst of all, at the time of the Conclave Ulthuan's forces were on the march in the Old World. In the face of all that, it seemed very self-serving for Karag Dum to announce that it was Chaos that was the real threat. A great deal was said in hot blood, every word of it recorded for posterity."

"What were the Elves doing?"

"Pursuing the Beastman demigod Cor-Dum, but that was not known at the time. The Phoenix King Finubar was still new to the throne, and many Dwarves suspected the worst when his forces made landfall in the Old World."

"So when the Great War Against Chaos proved Karag Dum right..."

"Influential and ambitious Runelords had their words against Karag Dum indelibly recorded. If they had taken the warnings seriously, and fifty years had been spent exerting all effort of the Karaz Ankor to prepare against the coming storm..."
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BoneyM said:
Just shadows. That's in character though, Beastmen are natural ambushers.
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Ulgu lenses to make telescopes? (Sorry if it's been brought up before)

I'm guessing that (but am asking to confirm) the Ulgu of the telescopes would block windsight?

On another note, would a physical glass lense be useful to telescope Mathilde's windsight?
 
BoneyM said:
"We did the best we could," he says. "When it comes time to tell the rest of the Karaz Ankor what has become of us, please tell them that as well. May the Ancestors forgive us."
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Suddenly Borek's insistence that 'evacuation' not be the stated goal of the expedition is much more… complex.

There's a moment as Snorri processes that. "Alright, job done, Borek's back home, time we accomplished the same for ourselves," he says briskly.
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Good plan.
Doubt the thread will go for it but good plan nonetheless.

"Things aren't adding up."
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…curiosity. Not a great trait for Meowthilde to be embracing just now.

8012 of 8047. I am gaining ground. Slowly.
 
[X] ACTION: Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
[X] ACTION: Attempt to contact the nearby Kurgan tribes for information.
[X] ACTION: Attempt closer examination of Morghur, the beastmen, and the forest.
[X] ACTION: Infiltrate Karag Dum to gather information.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] ACTION: Investigate further.
[X] Action: Pray for guidance. In this realm reality is more malleable, perhaps our gods will be able to reach us more easily here.
[X] Action: Look for the source of the desert.
[x] ACTION: We need to verify if the situation here is stable, or if it's something that will come back to haunt the Karaz Ankor and Empire if left ignored.
[X] ACTION: Project a message in the air: What the fuck Borek (but more politely worded.)




[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: That's not Morghur. Morghur constantly changes his surroundings, Morghur does not make reality more stable near himself, Morghur does not display affection, Morghur does not not attack people, Morghur would never stay here unless he was bound, and if he was bound he'd be struggling constantly to get out. The shuddering of reality can be faked by Runesmiths if they wanted.
[x] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
 
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[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] ACTION: Turn back
 
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One thing I dont think folks have touched upon: Karag Dum, mountain included, is now inside a crater without the rest of the mountain range. Enslaving beastman doesn't explain that at all, but a sort of "bubble" effect (Sphere) does very very well.
(I'll make a full effort post later, but this means that the enslavement theory is, minimally, not complete)
 
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