Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Oh, right, voting. I had forgotten that. And look, new fancy plan (well, a well-modified one, but still) Not my favourite, but better than the currently leading one, so lets see if we can get it to change.

[X] Plan: Spoken Queekish v4 with Better Max
 
Approval Voting:

[X] Plan: Spoken Queekish v4 with Better Max and Better Paper
[X] Plan: Save the History! also AV and Job I guess... V2
[X] Plan: Save the History! also AV and Job I guess...

but I still want to work on the gas mask, Grand Urbaz vaults and the fresh paper so...

[X] Plan: Save the History! also AV and Job I guess... V3 better Max
-[X] OVERWORK
-[X][MAX] Write a paper: Translated text on Chaos Dwarf anatomy (TIMELESS)
-[X][JOHANN] Study an artefact: Breathing apparatus, stolen from Clan Skryre
-[X][DUCK] Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help
-[X][EIC] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
-[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere.
-[X] Try to convince him outright to teach you spoken Queekish.
--[X] GAMBIT: Convince Qrech that the Under-Empire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
--[X] GAMBIT: "My efforts in destroying Mors should have won me a great position and much prestige, unfortunately due to bypassing them the people who should be teaching me to speak the language (a prerequisite for the position I deserve.) are stonewalling me. They can't afford to do so forever but every day the luster of my victory fades. If I could go over their heads and speak it on my own though..."
-[X] Record all the entries of the Grand Urbaz vaults and select a good-quality example of each minting to save from the smelters.
-[X] Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
-[X] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[X][PENTHOUSE] Have a gyrocopter landing pad built into your balcony.
-[X][SERENITY] Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery (FRESH)
-[X][COIN] The Deceiver: Skaven Gambit

[X] Plan: Save the History! also AV and Job I guess... V4 even better Max
-[X] OVERWORK
-[X][MAX] Write a paper: Translated Eshin correspondence on the Skaven Civil War (TIMELESS)
-[X][JOHANN] Study an artefact: Breathing apparatus, stolen from Clan Skryre
-[X][DUCK] Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help
-[X][EIC] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
-[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere.
-[X] Try to convince him outright to teach you spoken Queekish.
--[X] GAMBIT: Convince Qrech that the Under-Empire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
--[X] GAMBIT: "My efforts in destroying Mors should have won me a great position and much prestige, unfortunately due to bypassing them the people who should be teaching me to speak the language (a prerequisite for the position I deserve.) are stonewalling me. They can't afford to do so forever but every day the luster of my victory fades. If I could go over their heads and speak it on my own though..."
-[X] Record all the entries of the Grand Urbaz vaults and select a good-quality example of each minting to save from the smelters.
-[X] Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
-[X] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[X][PENTHOUSE] Have a gyrocopter landing pad built into your balcony.
-[X][SERENITY] Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery (FRESH)
-[X][COIN] The Deceiver: Skaven Gambit
 
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Might as well add the 'think of your future comfort' gambit to the second Qretch action.
I considered it, but 1) I honestly don't think it will accomplish very much (he's been with us for two years and we've treated him well already, I don't see the need to gambit just because we can) 2) I wanted to change as little as possible from the leading plan to maximize the chance that we get the better Max action.
@BoneyM when you closing the vote?
Boney closes the vote 1) after at least 24 hours have passed since the previous update 2) when he's ready to begin writing. 1 has happened, 2 might happen in ten minutes or in three days.
 
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I mean, I am also living in a country facing a population decline (like most of Europe) and I very much do not want to have five or six children, so I don't think you can just make an assumption like that.

And honestly, the idea that someone should be heavily pressured to have children just because the population is falling really bugs me. No, Belegar does not need to have children if he doesn't want to, we shouldn't use the boon to pressure him into doing so!

Besides, we all know that Kazador can do the work on his own. Wouldn't be much worse in terms of population genetics than humanity already is.
That's fair. My extensive extended family may have skewed my perception of how common the desire for a large family is. :V

and if say, a Tomb King DOES somehow in a twist of Ranald's lulz show up
It would have to take some serious Ranald lulz for that to happen. I'm really not sure why this continues to crop up as even an unlikely problem.

Seriously, for one thing, if the Tomb Kings really wanted that money back, then they've had at least two or three millennia to try, and for another, most if not all of it probably belonged to merchants, rather than nobles or royalty, so the former owners are unlikely to be able to muster up vast armies of undead and living statuary.

I fully support making a copy of the records, of course, I'm just perplexed as to why there is any concern that, all of a sudden, the Tomb Kong's are going to decide they care about the money and march an army up to our door.
 
[X] Plan: Spoken Queekish v4
[X] Plan: Spoken Queekish with better gambits
[X] Plan: Spoken Queekish v4 with convincing
[X] Plan: Spoken Queekish v4 with Better Max
 
Boney closes the vote 1) after at least 24 hours have passed since the previous update 2) when he's ready to begin writing. 1 has happened, 2 might happen in ten minutes or in three days.
BoneyM has always been considerate enough to allow time for a new vote to be rallied if it looked like it has a chance at all.
I've added yours to my approval votes.

Though I do think Max has a nice chance to get written magical vocabulary out of the Moulder books.
It's not like they are completely hyperspecialized.
All Skaven use Warpstone to some degree and therefor should have a chance for Magical Vocab, though likely a higher one for Eshin (Sorcerer).
 
I considered it, but 1) I honestly don't think it will accomplish very much (he's been with us for two years and we've treated him well already, I don't see the need to gambit just because we can) 2) I wanted to change as little as possible from the leading plan to maximize the chance that we get the better Max action.
The point is it helps us accomplish it, by encouraging Qretch to tell us what he needs, beyond a puppy, carving and ogre books.
Also, two improvements might swing more vote changes past inertia.
 
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Though I do think Max has a nice chance to get written magical vocabulary out of the Moulder books.
It's not like they are completely hyperspecialized.
All Skaven use Warpstone to some degree and therefor should have a chance for Magical Vocab, though likely a higher one for Eshin (Sorcerer).
I do definitely agree that there is a chance. I just don't think it's a good enough chance that I want to take it.

If it turns out I was wrong, I will feel silly.
The point is it helps us accomplish it, by encouraging Qretch to tell us what he needs, beyond a puppy, carving and ogre books.
Also, two improvements might swing more vote changes past inertia.
He did ask us for those things in exchange for helping even without us offering him more comfort or threatening what he already had. The second point... I dunno, I feel like it might make some people likelier to change their vote and other people less likely to. I've seen the most success come from modifying leading plans in a single atomic way.
 
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It wouldn't surprise me if there are very juicy options in the EIC Network actions if we recruited an actual Grey Perpetual as opposed to a normal Handler whose political reliability are far less secure, most certainly not to the Grey Order. A Grey Perpetual makes it clear to potential future rouge actors EIC we mean business, and we are putting an eye from our order on you. If we are worried that the EIC would misuse things like the Riverine Para-navy in the long run, a line of Grey Perpetual Watchers to ensure the EIC doesn't go Corporate State sounds like a very good idea.

We can quite literally groom a Grey Perpetual to specialize in Corporate Oversight, within one of the largest business concerns in the Empire.

Honestly I fell a Grey Perpetual would just be another step on this weird EIC paranoia that the thread has.

We Own the EIC lock stock and barrel, the most active shareholders are our close friends, we are in complete control, what would it take for people to stop worrying that they would do a 180 whitout warning and bite us in the ass ? I don't even know what people are worried about then anymore and yet we are all looking for ways to make quadruple sure they won't turn for the next hundred years, again.
Seriously the EIC is an asset, not a snake, and we are still keeping an eye on it like it was a Lord of change.

We don't need a perpetual in house, having The Dämmerlichtreiter as their owner is as much a statement as we could need, specialy with the Stirlandian League in living memory. Seriously if they aren't scared of us you think a no name perpetual would bother them ?

If we want a maneger we don't need a perpetual, specialy not a show of force to keep things clean when it is already cleaner then can be believed.

But honestly before grooming a new operative I would like to talk with Julia, while I doubt we can poach her at this point we should still offer for courtesy sake and I would love to have her repass information from her network to ours.
 
I hope that Spoken Queekish V4 can be dropped once the new plan has overtaken Powerstones.

I've dropped my Powerstone vote, so feel free to drop one Spoken Queekish V4 votes. I urge those in Powerstones to offer to drop their Powerstone vote if one Queekish V4 vote is dropped.


Honestly I fell a Grey Perpetual would just be another step on this weird EIC paranoia that the thread has.

The EIC paranoia is kind of usually rephrased as a long-term paranoia, not so much what the EIC would turn during Anton or Wilhemenia's lifetime. I have a feeling the thread would be more comfortable voting for things like a para-military navy if the Grey order presence in the EIC is locked in with a Perpetual because it means that Mathilde is already planning ahead the vigil on the EIC by the Grey Order beyond the lifetime of the founders.

From a narrative in-universe perspective, I think a Grey Perpetual being groomed is the kind of thing Mathilde might undertake as the complexity of her info-network grows because this agent can probably offer actions Mathilde might never personally dare take without an Agent of a Grey order whose political reliabilities are almost certainly higher than any handler Mathilde recruits who are not in the Grey Order. Given her loyalties to the Grey College, and given what that info-network is meant for, it won't be out of character for Mathilde to take in a young Perpetual to ensure that network remains in control of the Grey Order in event of anything happening to her, as a way to ensure her legacy continues. Mathilde is that paranoid.

From the perspective of game play, it won't surprise me that the menu of options offered by a Grey Perpetual as opposed to a mundane handler is going to be very, very fun, because an Intelligence agent professionally trained to Grey Order standards is going to probably bring a completely more sophisticated skill-sets, and has a higher cachet of political reliability to engage in actions that Mathilde won't dare to instruct non-Grey Order operatives to do. The option sets are almost certainly going to look very different, even if your Grey Perpetual has a far more limited magical capability than a Journeyman on Magister track, else it won't be a distinct option.

Plus, I really do like to read about Mathilde grooming a fellow Wizard, but I don't think Mathilde is quite ready to take an Apprentice yet (maybe after both Lord Magistership and Nagartyhye). Grooming a Perpetual to serve as an Info-network Hand makes it felt that Mathilde is actively involving a Grey Order presence in her holdings beyond herself, and I think it adds to the rich tapestry of the thread in a way a mundane handler of less certain political reliability and less commonality with Mathilde would not. It's the sort of unique narrative opportunity that we can get because we are playing as a Grey Magister.

Finally, the romantic in me still holds out hope that Mathilde finds love with someone who shares burdens akin to her own, as seen in my advocacy of socializing Johann. Panaromia's mother married a perpetual..... so... that's another interesting option too.
 
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The thing that I'm worried about, with regard to the Grey Perpetual/EIC discourse, is making it look like the EIC is becoming part of the Empire's intelligence apparatus.

(Which it is. It totally is. That's the point. But we don't want it to look that way.)
'Information gets passed up the chain so that the EIC can better make business decisions for the profit of everyone involved' is fine with everyone and normal not just for the EIC but for most trading companies. Major Shareholder Dame Weber, hero of the Sieges of the Drakenhofs, can deepen that existing culture without anyone finding it at all unusual. She's an expert at gathering and profiting off information, and the EIC's profits are her profits. Other Grey Wizards won't have her reputation or the presumption of profit motives to protect them, and Grey Journeymen don't have enough experience to take it as given that they'd be able to operate quietly.

If other Grey Wizards are known to become involved, it will be assumed that it's because the EIC is becoming part of the Empire's information-gathering apparatus. And there's nobody in trade who's so without sin that they'd feel fully comfortable doing business with the EIC under those circumstances, even if those sins are entirely limited to being flexible with their tax-paying obligations. This is a time period where the back-and-forth of corporate taxation wasn't done with lobbyists and accountants, it was done by ensuring a safe distance between excisemen and taxable goods by a wide range of methods, some of which might, in a certain light, be considered 'bribery' or 'smuggling'.
If whatever Perpetual we hire becomes known to be affiliated with the Greys, it's gonna get a lot harder for the EIC to do its business. So I'd strongly prefer not to cross the streams and just hire handlers unaffiliated with the College.
 
The thing that I'm worried about, with regard to the Grey Perpetual/EIC discourse, is making it look like the EIC is becoming part of the Empire's intelligence apparatus.

(Which it is. It totally is. That's the point. But we don't want it to look that way.)

If whatever Perpetual we hire becomes known to be affiliated with the Greys, it's gonna get a lot harder for the EIC to do its business. So I'd strongly prefer not to cross the streams and just hire handlers unaffiliated with the College.
The part-owner, largest shareholder is known to be 'Grey-affiliated', so I'm not sure an assistant from the College will make it much more blatant.
 
The part-owner, largest shareholder is known to be 'Grey-affiliated', so I'm not sure an assistant from the College will make it much more blatant.
The Boney quote I had in my post addressed that specifically.
She's an expert at gathering and profiting off information, and the EIC's profits are her profits. Other Grey Wizards won't have her reputation or the presumption of profit motives to protect them, and Grey Journeymen don't have enough experience to take it as given that they'd be able to operate quietly.

If other Grey Wizards are known to become involved, it will be assumed that it's because the EIC is becoming part of the Empire's information-gathering apparatus.
Unclear whether this would also apply to Grey Perpetuals, but my bet is that it would.
 
While all that is true, it was said based on a scenario where Grey Journeymen would be thrown in the general direction of the EIC in the hopes that a spy network would happen as a result. Having a single Grey Perpetual operating at the top of an already-existing network is a lot less visible, and many Perpetuals operate without revealing their nature as Perpetuals.

Journeymen exist as a concept not just to get them Wizards to the Empire, but the Empire used to Wizards. If they operated unseen it would defeat the purpose. But Perpetuals fly under the radar as a matter of course.
 
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If whatever Perpetual we hire becomes known to be affiliated with the Greys, it's gonna get a lot harder for the EIC to do its business. So I'd strongly prefer not to cross the streams and just hire handlers unaffiliated with the College.

I do think that we are hiring less an outright handler but an actual personal assistant specializing in Information gathering. This is the guy who handles the day to day matters regarding the handlers, at a level Mathilde can't at half action cost. He/she probably not going to be revealing his/her nature as Prepetuals, and might well be known simply as Mathilde's personal-assistant regarding EIC affairs.
 
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[X] Plan: Spoken Queekish v4 with Better Max
-[X] Contains one Overwork action
-[X][MAX] Write a paper: Translated text on Chaos Dwarf anatomy (TIMELESS)
-[X][JOHANN] Study an artefact: Unknown black gem, stolen from the Skaven.
-[X][DUCK] Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help
-[X][EIC] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
-[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere.
-[X] Try to convince him outright to teach you spoken Queekish.
--[X] Deceiver: Continue with the Gambit that teaching you Queekish continues to cause discontent in the Grey Order and of course the Grey Order itself already has Queekish...
-[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there: Waystones and Waystone maintenance
-[X][AV] Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
-[X] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[X][PENTHOUSE] Have a gyrocopter landing pad built into your balcony.
-[X][SERENITY] Translated Eshin correspondence on the Skaven Civil War (TIMELESS)
-[X][COIN] The Deceiver: Skaven Gambit
 
While all that is true, it was said based on a scenario where Grey Journeymen would be thrown in the general direction of the EIC in the hopes that a spy network would happen as a result. Having a single Grey Perpetual operating at the top of an already-existing network is a lot less visible, and many Perpetuals operate without revealing their nature as Perpetuals.
Got it, thank you for the clarification!
 
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