Not really a negative was just pointing out that until such a group appears that can contest our claim and ambition sufficiently my argument about reasons for taking over not just for the sake of taking over hold. So while in theory magic can solve everything, in practicality no such groups other than us exist in the prime material who can or want to pull it off. So both of us are right I was just expanding on it.
Because he's supposed to be keeping his presence somewhat concealed and that's much easier to do when he's hidden in SD, as opposed to the Iron Isles. If the Deep Ones spot the Githzerai on Planetos, they might freak out and do something desperate or stupid.
EDIT: BTW, you're new and untrained autocorrect continues to be amusing.
They're on my list of creatures to add to this month's Forge order, though we're gonna boost their HD a bit. 3 or 4 extra HD only increases CR by +1 but makes them much better.
EDIT: The actual Shadow Cats, I mean, not any monsters spliced with Seekers or acidic mammaries.
Mind you, why is it so dirt cheap to add HD? I was looking forever to find some semblance of a method to get more HD on undead since there are so few ways to raise CHA.
I'm waiting for our conflict with Asmodeus to escalate further.
Once we are at full war, Hellven is a valuable and profitable outpost of his, maybe his only territory we can conquer, since Hell won't be in the cards for a long while.
At the same time retaking Heaven will be an immense PR and morale victory, even if we can't fix it yet.
So depending on how the Slaver's Bay actions turn out and how Big Red reacts to our attempts at cockblocking, I'll support starting to prepare prepare for the conquest of Hellven within the next quarter year and then invade some time in the next two depending on the gained informations from that preparation.
And of course depending on the number of fires closer to home.
I'm waiting for our conflict with Asmodeus to escalate further.
Once we are at full war, Hellven is a valuable and profitable outpost of his, maybe his only territory we can conquer, since Hell won't be in the cards for a long while.
At the same time retaking Heaven will be an immense PR and morale victory, even if we can't fix it yet.
So depending on how the Slaver's Bay actions turn out and how Big Red reacts to our attempts at cockblocking, I'll support starting to prepare prepare for the conquest of Hellven within the next quarter year and then invade some time in the next two depending on the gained informations from that preparation.
And of course depending on the number of fires closer to home.
Heaven isn't exactly a lightly defended outpost. The place is swarming with high-CR gribblies, has multiple high-mythic characters that would defend it, and this is before any support is sent from Baator itself. Or the opportunistic attacks by other factions such a conflict would invite.
Conquering the place wouldn't be any easier then taking Avernus.
Mind you, why is it so dirt cheap to add HD? I was looking forever to find some semblance of a method to get more HD on undead since there are so few ways to raise CHA.
Heaven isn't exactly a lightly defended outpost. The place is swarming with high-CR gribblies, has multiple high-mythic characters that would defend it, and this is before any support is sent from Baator itself. Or the opportunistic attacks by other factions such a conflict would invite.
Conquering the place wouldn't be any easier then taking Avernus.
I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second.
Hellven has a powerful garrison, but not the infinite troops that a real layer of Hell can offer (since I assume every Devil going to Heaven has to use Planeshift or portals, there is no natural and permanent path from the lower levels.
Also it isn't an entire plane that was fortified since near the beginning of time to serve as fortressand frontier in the biggest war in existance.
And it doesn't have a godlike entity fighting in its home domain, which every true Archduke in his layer is.
Yep. It's one of the reasons why working with Plant creatures and animals in the Forge is nice. They can get a few HD added without unduly affecting their CR. Dragons, on the other hand, go up by 1 CR per 2 HD.
I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second.
Hellven has a powerful garrison, but not the infinite troops that a real layer of Hell can offer (since I assume every Devil going to Heaven has to use Planeshift or portals, there is no natural and permanent path from the lower levels.
Also it isn't an entire plane that was fortified since near the beginning of time to serve as fortressand frontier in the biggest war in existance.
And it doesn't have a godlike entity fighting in its home domain, which every true Archduke in his layer is.
1. True. Movement is limited, but it's not as if Baator is lacking in people with Planeshift. They can still drop massive armies, especially if they risk using Gates.
2. No, it's just a massive city that was fortified for 10,000 years to withstand constant attacks by Daemons, Demons and the Void. With the rest of the plane being marginally more hospitable then Abbaddon.
3. Maybe not in the city...
On the matter of taking Heaven's Shore, consider how many preparations you made to face Tiamat, on the Prime Material Plane, now scale that up to an extraplanar outpost defended for tens of thousands of years against some of the wrost things in the multiverse.
I didn't post it here because it honestly doesn't have much to do with ASWAH... But here it is, if you think anyone in this thread would like it :
You get spellcasting levels in real life.
Spellcasting and Psionic powers do not function, nor do magic items which depend on them (or magic items generated by feats such as Ancestral Relic or Legacy Item feats). Item Familiars cannot take Weapon or Armour properties and you can't use the "enchant them yourself without all the normal prerequisites to enchanting" clause, but they can become sentient and get sentient item abilities and can of course boost your skills.
Invocations, Truenaming, Incarnum, Mysteries, Binds and other (Sp) and (Su) abilities still work - this isn't a ban on magic as a whole
Everyone who responds to this thread as well as one in a million people chosen at random receive a dream granting them power. They may shape it now (choose class levels, etc) and it will slowly happen. Effectively you set your 20 levels now but don't get them all at once.
The number of levels you receive per year corresponds to the Tier of the class you're taking. So a Tier 4 class would get 4 levels per year, and a Tier 3 class would only get 3. You still can't bypass level 20 total - lower Tier classes just get there much faster. Great for back-loaded classes!
Prestige classes are allowed. The number of levels of a PrC you can get per year is unknown (PrCs don't have clear Tiers). Perhaps it will be one level a year for a crazy strong PrC, and perhaps it will be 4 or 5 a year for a wear PrC (one a PrC that fails to change the Tier of a weak class). I'll clarify once your choice is posted in-thread.
You can still earn XP, but can't level from it. It's just there to pay XP costs, etc. Earning XP is done through milestones, and you cannot really predict them. However you are aware of your XP total. Earning XP is never fast, but it does get a little faster when your level increases.
Dragon Magazine content is allowed.
Weird abilities that aren't just class stuff (rituals to create Living Zombies or turn people into Necropolitans, Sculpt Self, etc) will require testing. Taking appropriate skill points is suggested. DCs will generally be very high for this stuff, and/or it may require years of experimentation and various difficult to acquire resources.
Alchemy and similar magical crafting will require components which are difficult to find. You can't just buy things off amazon and expect to do Alchemy or whatever.
This time around, you can have the elite array.
Leadership is allowed, but your cohort will be under the same restrictions as you (a Wizard cohort still can't cast spells, etc). At least they'll instantly get the levels they're allowed.
Your power-granting dream also comes with a vague warning that no matter what the people of earth choose to do with their new powers, things are coming... I'll post the timeline for that in a few days, so that you can make your choice with nothing more than a vague warning. You don't know what will happen, or how soon it is happening.
You don't know whether or not D&D cosmology exists, or what sent you this dream. However abilities which rely on the Shadow, Etheral and Astral Planes still function.
I'm obviously not posting my builds on GiTP (so please don't mention them there), but here they are :
A straightforwards Factotum 20 build, grabbing Wedded to History and Leadership of course but otherwise focusing on skills and Font of Inspiration as many times as possible. This is a "I intend to lay low for years and enjoy the small personal benefits while hoping I don't die in some crazy bullshit before I level" plan.
I pick Dragon Shaman, and max Cha. The idea here is to level as fast as possible, and to exploit Leadership to make a Tier 3 class level faster like some people on GiTP are thinking of doing. Except that here we'll exploit it better than them, because fuck Qwertus and his ridiculous/pompous "I'm a natural genius" posts.
So take Dragon Shaman (it's a solid chassis with healing, etc), max Cha, and take Leadership, Great Diplomat, and Dragon Cohort. This gives you 3 powerful Cohorts. Make one a Binder, and make sure another one can apply negative levels (let's say a Shadow Dragon, or something with a level of Soul Eater). Then use negative levels + Restoration from the Binders' summoned creatures to switch yourself into a better class than Dragon Shaman.
Ideally I'd make two of my siblings cohorts, as I'm 100% sure I could depend on them and it feels a lot less like mind control that way. I'm not mindwiping some stranger, just giving powers to someone who's already a reliable ally with a decent opinion of me. Arguably Dragon Cohort turns someone into a Dragon instead of just making one appear (following the same logic as Leadership instantly giving someone character levels) but I'll just make sure to pick a Dragon type that can take human shape again, 3.5 is full of those.
I'll be using my low-level feats for extra skill points and class skills. Dragon Shaman is a very solid chassis (healing, Endure Elements, etc) and I wouldn't hate the class during the 3 years it would take me to really get this whole mess going.
Old Dragons can take Epic feats. Therefore, if I can pump my Cha to 25 without items I can take Epic Leadership, which makes the exact same combo as last time even better because now my cohorts can get to level 19 (I'll be taking Improved Cohort) instead of 17. I can become a Dragon simply by taking three levels in the Half-Dragon savage progression. There are several ways to get Cha 25 : the bad way to do this is just to take Vow of Poverty and apply those bonuses to Cha. The good way is to take Human Paragon at low levels and then dip Dragon Devotee and Warchief (both of which I easily qualify for). The rest of the build would be a mix of Dragon Shaman and Monk. This means I'd have less healing, but far better skills than a normal Dragon Shaman. Then of course on the fourth year when I get the level 19 cohorts (who, may I remind you, can take their own cohorts) I can push the Cheese even further : make one an Incarnate who will Gate in something with a Wish or Miracle SLA (the drain+Restoration trick will provide enough XP for Gate). Use the monster's SLA to replicate the level 7 "Curse of Lycanthropy" spell, which makes me a were-bear, which qualifies me for epic feats as I now have over 20HD. You can now retrain everything as before without losing Epic Leadership (as long as you still have Cha 25), and nothing is stopping you from repeating the process on your allies to push them over level 20 too.
To keep Cha 25 despite retraining those PrCs, I'll simply have one cohort be a Warlock without PrCs. Warlocks can craft stat-boosting items easily enough. To get the necessary money to craft a +6 Cha item, I'll use the Landlord feat (nothing in the feat says you receive that wealth in cash, so why not ask to receive it in reagents?). If Landlord doesn't work (to be fair, it is stupid) just use the Incarnate with drain+Restoration for XP to get a Wish and Wish for that item.
Exemplar seems attractive for Skill Mastery, tho Even More Diplo from the other feature won't hurt. About 5 skills which I can always take ten on would be great for guaranteeing Diplo and Sense Motive, plus whatever I decide to focus on. Spellcraft and Arcana? Tumble? Iaijutsu? Autohypnosis? Intimidate (as I was thinking of Imperious Command & Never Outnumbered)?
The world-leader cohorts are a short-term trouble, too. If Trump is your BFF, it doesn't stop him getting voted out of office next election, say by the various Diplo builds running around in the US.
I agree, but sometimes short-term troubles can make long-term gains impossible, or can snowball into long-term gains for whoever is running the short-term game.
Yes. Factotum is amazing here, especially in the long term. Its slow leveling means that apart from "hide, their Divination is probably shit" it can't really compete in the first few years and is really just personal improvements, but it'll later become increasingly amazing.
Well, now that I think about it it's entirely possible to get multiple Communes a day if you can pump Knowledge (the planes) to a +30 or so and get some luck rerolls... Easier said than done, but not impossible (Marshal, feats, cohorts to stack buffs and get more daily tries). Still, that's a significant investment of resources.
On the matter of taking Heaven's Shore, consider how many preparations you made to face Tiamat, on the Prime Material Plane, now scale that up to an extraplanar outpost defended for tens of thousands of years against some of the wrost things in the multiverse.
