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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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I'm sorry @egoo, but Azel's "let's compare the fleshforge staff of today and yesterday" was the ultimate shitpost of the day.

Such genius. Such stupidity, all at once. I loved it.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
I didn't post it here because it honestly doesn't have much to do with ASWAH... But here it is, if you think anyone in this thread would like it :

You get spellcasting levels in real life.
  • Spellcasting and Psionic powers do not function, nor do magic items which depend on them (or magic items generated by feats such as Ancestral Relic or Legacy Item feats). Item Familiars cannot take Weapon or Armour properties and you can't use the "enchant them yourself without all the normal prerequisites to enchanting" clause, but they can become sentient and get sentient item abilities and can of course boost your skills.
  • Invocations, Truenaming, Incarnum, Mysteries, Binds and other (Sp) and (Su) abilities still work - this isn't a ban on magic as a whole
  • Everyone who responds to this thread as well as one in a million people chosen at random receive a dream granting them power. They may shape it now (choose class levels, etc) and it will slowly happen. Effectively you set your 20 levels now but don't get them all at once.
  • The number of levels you receive per year corresponds to the Tier of the class you're taking. So a Tier 4 class would get 4 levels per year, and a Tier 3 class would only get 3. You still can't bypass level 20 total - lower Tier classes just get there much faster. Great for back-loaded classes!
  • Prestige classes are allowed. The number of levels of a PrC you can get per year is unknown (PrCs don't have clear Tiers). Perhaps it will be one level a year for a crazy strong PrC, and perhaps it will be 4 or 5 a year for a wear PrC (one a PrC that fails to change the Tier of a weak class). I'll clarify once your choice is posted in-thread.
  • You can still earn XP, but can't level from it. It's just there to pay XP costs, etc. Earning XP is done through milestones, and you cannot really predict them. However you are aware of your XP total. Earning XP is never fast, but it does get a little faster when your level increases.
  • Dragon Magazine content is allowed.
  • Weird abilities that aren't just class stuff (rituals to create Living Zombies or turn people into Necropolitans, Sculpt Self, etc) will require testing. Taking appropriate skill points is suggested. DCs will generally be very high for this stuff, and/or it may require years of experimentation and various difficult to acquire resources.
  • Alchemy and similar magical crafting will require components which are difficult to find. You can't just buy things off amazon and expect to do Alchemy or whatever.
  • This time around, you can have the elite array.
  • Leadership is allowed, but your cohort will be under the same restrictions as you (a Wizard cohort still can't cast spells, etc). At least they'll instantly get the levels they're allowed.
  • Your power-granting dream also comes with a vague warning that no matter what the people of earth choose to do with their new powers, things are coming... I'll post the timeline for that in a few days, so that you can make your choice with nothing more than a vague warning. You don't know what will happen, or how soon it is happening.
  • You don't know whether or not D&D cosmology exists, or what sent you this dream. However abilities which rely on the Shadow, Etheral and Astral Planes still function.
Tier list, reposted for convenience :

I'm obviously not posting my builds on GiTP (so please don't mention them there), but here they are :
A straightforwards Factotum 20 build, grabbing Wedded to History and Leadership of course but otherwise focusing on skills and Font of Inspiration as many times as possible. This is a "I intend to lay low for years and enjoy the small personal benefits while hoping I don't die in some crazy bullshit before I level" plan.
I pick Dragon Shaman, and max Cha. The idea here is to level as fast as possible, and to exploit Leadership to make a Tier 3 class level faster like some people on GiTP are thinking of doing. Except that here we'll exploit it better than them, because fuck Qwertus and his ridiculous/pompous "I'm a natural genius" posts.
So take Dragon Shaman (it's a solid chassis with healing, etc), max Cha, and take Leadership, Great Diplomat, and Dragon Cohort. This gives you 3 powerful Cohorts. Make one a Binder, and make sure another one can apply negative levels (let's say a Shadow Dragon, or something with a level of Soul Eater). Then use negative levels + Restoration from the Binders' summoned creatures to switch yourself into a better class than Dragon Shaman.
Ideally I'd make two of my siblings cohorts, as I'm 100% sure I could depend on them and it feels a lot less like mind control that way. I'm not mindwiping some stranger, just giving powers to someone who's already a reliable ally with a decent opinion of me. Arguably Dragon Cohort turns someone into a Dragon instead of just making one appear (following the same logic as Leadership instantly giving someone character levels) but I'll just make sure to pick a Dragon type that can take human shape again, 3.5 is full of those.
I'll be using my low-level feats for extra skill points and class skills. Dragon Shaman is a very solid chassis (healing, Endure Elements, etc) and I wouldn't hate the class during the 3 years it would take me to really get this whole mess going.
Old Dragons can take Epic feats. Therefore, if I can pump my Cha to 25 without items I can take Epic Leadership, which makes the exact same combo as last time even better because now my cohorts can get to level 19 (I'll be taking Improved Cohort) instead of 17. I can become a Dragon simply by taking three levels in the Half-Dragon savage progression. There are several ways to get Cha 25 : the bad way to do this is just to take Vow of Poverty and apply those bonuses to Cha. The good way is to take Human Paragon at low levels and then dip Dragon Devotee and Warchief (both of which I easily qualify for). The rest of the build would be a mix of Dragon Shaman and Monk. This means I'd have less healing, but far better skills than a normal Dragon Shaman. Then of course on the fourth year when I get the level 19 cohorts (who, may I remind you, can take their own cohorts) I can push the Cheese even further : make one an Incarnate who will Gate in something with a Wish or Miracle SLA (the drain+Restoration trick will provide enough XP for Gate). Use the monster's SLA to replicate the level 7 "Curse of Lycanthropy" spell, which makes me a were-bear, which qualifies me for epic feats as I now have over 20HD. You can now retrain everything as before without losing Epic Leadership (as long as you still have Cha 25), and nothing is stopping you from repeating the process on your allies to push them over level 20 too.
To keep Cha 25 despite retraining those PrCs, I'll simply have one cohort be a Warlock without PrCs. Warlocks can craft stat-boosting items easily enough. To get the necessary money to craft a +6 Cha item, I'll use the Landlord feat (nothing in the feat says you receive that wealth in cash, so why not ask to receive it in reagents?). If Landlord doesn't work (to be fair, it is stupid) just use the Incarnate with drain+Restoration for XP to get a Wish and Wish for that item.

Solid.
I agree, but sometimes short-term troubles can make long-term gains impossible, or can snowball into long-term gains for whoever is running the short-term game.

Yes. Factotum is amazing here, especially in the long term. Its slow leveling means that apart from "hide, their Divination is probably shit" it can't really compete in the first few years and is really just personal improvements, but it'll later become increasingly amazing.

Well, now that I think about it it's entirely possible to get multiple Communes a day if you can pump Knowledge (the planes) to a +30 or so and get some luck rerolls... Easier said than done, but not impossible (Marshal, feats, cohorts to stack buffs and get more daily tries). Still, that's a significant investment of resources.
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That's quite a conundrum...rapid gain in relatively limited power versus slow gain in potentially cosmic power.

You have to survive to reap the rewards of a better class, and with ominous shit coming...time isn't likely to be on your side.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
I'm obviously not posting my builds on GiTP (so please don't mention them there), but here they are
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Honestly, I kind of feel this draining and restoration to retrain thing is too gamey to work with it as presented. You get to make a build in a dream and it's done, you don't get actual gamer powers which you could then essentially glitch like that.

I'm thinking about finishing with Warblade or Swordsage instead of Exemplar. Can't talk your way out of everything, and extra standard actions works beautifully with maneuvers.

And hey, Factotum is T3, not that slow.
Goldfish said:
That's quite a conundrum...rapid gain in relatively limited power versus slow gain in potentially cosmic power.

You have to survive to reap the rewards of a better class, and with ominous shit coming...time isn't likely to be on your side.
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The kicker is, of course, no spells.

Someone suggested Hierophant to turn ninth level spell slot so into SLAs and get 6 Miracles per day at 20th, but I'm not sure one can even qualify for "must cast X level spells" due the restrictions. If it works, probably the greatest raw power I've seen, but it only does anything at all by 16th.
 
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JamesShazbond said:

Ghost Wolf – d20PFSRD

www.d20pfsrd.com www.d20pfsrd.com

It's Phantom Steed one level higher in exchange for a fear aura and combat abilities.
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Teana had that one for a long time, but she retrained it during her most recent level up, as she gained the ability to duplicate it as needed through mimicking the Shadow Conjuration spell via her class abilities.
 
I can't help but imagine how you would go about building a catgirl now. Pathfinder has the Amurrun PC race, which are depicted at varying points on the furry-sick bastard spectrum. There's also there's also Bipedal Creature cats or some sort of werecat. Charisma is the closest thing to a pretty stat, so pump the hell out of that, and you'd want dexterity for you know what.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
The kicker is, of course, no spells.

Someone suggested Hierophant to turn ninth level spell slot so into SLAs and get 6 Miracles per day at 20th, but I'm not sure one can even qualify for "must cast X level spells" due the restrictions. If it works, probably the greatest raw power I've seen, but it only does anything at all by 16th.
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Yeah, that's a major hiccup, and the only reason I would consider Factotum, though I'm leaning toward a straight Warlock or Dragonfire Adept.

Unchained Monk would be an acceptable Tier 4 class, too, IMO. Max it in five years, plenty of combat ability, along with some decent utility and self-healing powers, plus I could gain the ability to duplicate the Akashic Form spell as an SLA at 20th level, which isn't immortality, but it's pretty close.

Not really a fan of cheesing things too much, especially that nuclear-grade gouda @TalonofAnathrax busted out to become a Dragon.
 
Azel said:
The lack of proper opposition has bred complacency.

Your shitposting has become weak.

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Ah, so you are a Shitposting Ghost, then.


(...yeah, alright, I'm reaching here. Sue me, I've been writing down the answers for the exam for over 5 hours and I'm only halfway done.)
Continue with the shitposting.
 
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Don't forget to vote, y'all.
Adhoc vote count started by Goldfish on Jan 8, 2020 at 7:10 PM, finished with 86 posts and 5 votes.
  • [X] Wake the boy, try to recover any hidden or repressed memories of just what was done with him.
    -[X] Ask the Mind Dragon to use his Telepathic Bond SLA to link the group together, then use Miracle to duplicate a Brain Spider spell in order to examine the boy's mind, Telepathically sharing what we learn with the others.
    -[X] If necessary, see if any of the other children might not be able to tell you more using the same methods as above as the situation calls for.
    -[X] Travel to Volmark and see the ruined ritual chamber for yourself.
    -[X] Before we depart, offer to place a Forbiddance ward to protect the keep from Teleportation effects. With no password, it will only cost 200 IM, plus 300 IM per 60 foot cube to be warded, which we will absorb ourselves.
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Azel said:
@TalonofAnathrax, put me down as a Psychometrist 20.

Sure. What is it?
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Thanks! I was wondering about the utility of the Smite Chaos ability given the relative rarity of chaos aligned enemies amongst our normal foes (Deep Ones seem to be LE, Devils are LE, the efreet are LE, the void is NE IIRC, and in general there is a lack of competent chaotic opponents for us to face), which makes it seem rather niche for inclusion on our Super Soldiers for whom I presume every ability is competing with other useful attributes for inclusion in the template.

I am guessing that you have considered this already, so I just really need to know what I am missing? Am I underestimating the number of chaotic foes we will expect our praetorians to face? Is smite chaos just an unavoidable or free part of the design process? Or is there something else going on?

Edit:

[X] Goldfish
 
Smartphone said:
Thanks! I was wondering about the utility of the Smite Chaos ability given the relative rarity of chaos aligned enemies amongst our normal foes (Deep Ones seem to be LE, Devils are LE, the efreet are LE, the void is NE IIRC, and in general there is a lack of competent chaotic opponents for us to face), which makes it seem rather niche for inclusion on our Super Soldiers for whom I presume every ability is competing with other useful attributes for inclusion in the template.

I am guessing that you have considered this already, so I just really need to know what I am missing? Am I underestimating the number of chaotic foes we will expect our praetorians to face? Is smite chaos just an unavoidable or free part of the design process? Or is there something else going on?

Edit:

[X] Goldfish
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The Praetori Template is actually a mashup of multiple other templates and a bunch of grafts. The Smite Chaos comes from the Resolute Creature template.
 
Azel said:
The Praetori Template is actually a mashup of multiple other templates and a bunch of grafts. The Smite Chaos comes from the Resolute Creature template.
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Thank you for the explanation! I presume than that we will just be leaving it as is, since it is not costing us anything, so whatever marginal benefits it provides is still a net gain?
 
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