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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Alectai said:
Skaven don't surrender in good faith, and Dwarfs won't accept the surrender even if they somehow did, there's just too many Grudges involved for them to be entirely fair about it.

More importantly, we've struck a critical--but not yet mortal wound, and they still have Lords on their side who can tip the scales. The absolute last thing we want to happen is Skaven escaping this place with firsthand knowledge of our abilities and temperment--and detailed maps of the region.

They very, very much understand spite.
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To be fair, if the Dragon actually annihilates them in Yar, the scared survivors will have no idea that we have been involved in attacking them. After all, we intercepted the messengers from the Under-Caldera and killed everyone down there, so any Skryre, Eshin and Mors survivors will remember getting their face wrecked by each other and the dragon alone. The Dwarves presumably move in after the Dragon annihilated everything.

It's actually hilarious. The fact that we are using a completely different doctrine to normal Dwarves will remain obscured from the Under-Empire.
 
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Katahiraga said:
The skavens are defeated already, why not just allow survivors to surrenderand be imprisoned or leave, there is no further need for bloodshed against a beaten enemy.
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Skaven don't surrender to non-Skaven, Qrech was an extremely unusual exception, and Dwarfs don't take Skaven prisoners period, and as said best to kill as many as possible as there bound to be a number to slip to the cracks and get away to tattle, increasing chances of a new Skaven host arriving some time in the future who Mathilde can't as easily turn against itself due to being mostly/largely/somewhat unified in retaking K8P.

Katahiraga said:
Why do the trolls need to be killed, aren't they just simple creatures that want food, so that it's easy to control them like what the greenskibs did.
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Food for trolls typically means people, meaning with soon Skaven and Greenskins gone that will be Dwarfs, Humans and Halflings. And there would zero interest for the Dawi to tame Trolls with no doubt an endless list of Grudges against them for eating Dwarfs.
 
Chronic said:
To be fair, if the Dragon actually annihilates them in Yar, the scared survivors will have no idea that we have been involved in attacking them. After all, we intercepted the messengers from the Under-Caldera and killed everyone down there, so any Skryre, Eshin and Mors survivors will remember getting their face wrecked by each other and the dragon alone. The Dwarves presumably move in after the Dragon annihilated everything.

It's actually hilarious. The fact that we are using a completely different doctrine to normal Dwarves will remain completely obscured from the Under-Empire.
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You misunderstand actually, that only works as long as nobody escapes.

Skaven Lords are masters at cheesing it when the chips are down, and discreet enough that they'd look at everything that went on and connect the dots.

I want to make sure when they try, the ways out are covered in prepared fighting positions with a line of dawi crossbows pointed at them.

Our hand should remain hidden from the greater setting as long as possible, and we shouldn't assume they'll just stay put once they realize there's an Emperor Dragon chasing them.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Are you trolling here?
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Katahiraga has historically had priorities that are fairly different from the zeitgeist of the thread. Remember a month ago? He wanted us to go back and investigate the Lahmian conspiracy so we could avenge the empress's death and Karl Franz's never-birth at the hands of the Grey Order.

So no, I don't think he's trolling, he just views things differently than most of the quest.
 
Alright, as I see it we have a bit of a tricky scenario.
Not bothering about the trolls here.

Practical: The dragon is angry. It's in fact so angry that it has decided to purge not just one, but two full clans of Skaven (likely not knowing about the Eshin-Mors war.
Theoretical: It is likely that the dragon will continue to purge anything that even looks crossly at it, which means anything that approaches Zilfin.
Furter theoretical: If we send anything to Zilfin, it will likely be either associated with the Skaven, or be seen as an attack, or further encroachment onto said Dragons theory.

If we send anything to Zilfin, we must ensure that
1. The dragon doesn't see it as hostile, or
2. The dragon doesn't notice it.

Theoretical: The dragon is angry enough to go through two mountains in the search of Skaven. It will notice if anything is attempting to hide.
Additionally: We should at this point assume that the Dragon is aware of everything in its presence, magic and all, which means that any attempt to hide from the dragon, magical or otherwise, will be a faliure. Attempting to scout on the dragon is likely to be taken as hostile action.

If we send anything to Zilfin then my solution is that we must initiate diplomacy first, to placate the dragon and ensure that it doesn't see a Dawi presence as hostile, but instead just an expeditionary force there to kill Skaven.

Solution: Mathilde with a big white flag. Attempting diplomacy.

[] YAR: Attempt to make contact with the dragon.
[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.
[X] ZILFIN: Cordon the mountain with Rangers.

Edit: On further discussion, I would have gone for this, but I will agree. The dragon Will drive all the rats out of Yar.
Let's be the anvil to its hammer, and pray that it won't attack us

[X] YAR: Make no move until you've scouted the Karag Yar battle.
-[X] Personally.
 
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[X] YAR: Fortify and garrison all entrances to the mountain.
- [X] Clan Angrund, Throng of Karak Azul, Karak Izor Immigrants
- [X] Mathilde
[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.
[X] ZILFIN: Assault the mountain to slay any surviving Skaven.

Cap'nSmurfy said:
"You were in charge for an afternoon! How?!"
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FTFY.

If you look at the thread marks, you will see that the Battle of the Caldera, at this time, has not even broken the six hour mark yet. :V
 
With the plan to assault the trolls, I think we may be underestimating them. Recall the massacre that would have been at Karag Lhune had the slayers not eagerly leapt to engage the trolls.

As I recall, the trolls there numbered in the several dozen.
 
Alectai said:
You misunderstand actually, that only works as long as nobody escapes.

Skaven Lords are masters at cheesing it when the chips are down, and discreet enough that they'd look at everything that went on and connect the dots.

I want to make sure when they try, the ways out are covered in prepared fighting positions with a line of dawi crossbows pointed at them.
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How would they know we've been involved? All they know is that they had a perfectly good assault going and suddenly a Dragon flew in through the Underways and wrecked their everything. Unless some flee to the Under-Caldera they won't even have a chance to find out what we've been doing, and we're going to fortify the entrances to the Under-Caldera anyways because we are Dwarves, so any who try will be caught between us and an angry Dragon.
 
[X] YAR: Attempt to make contact with the dragon.
[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.
[X] ZILFIN: Cordon the mountain with Rangers.

This seems prudent.
 
Rule 3 - Personal Attack on Poster
Katahiraga said:
No just have a distaste for genocide and atrocities being committed.
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You are at wrong fandom. Also questions about the nature of Trolls is answered in canon which you should familarize yourself rather than asking stupid questions here. This is not the place for it.
 
Asheram said:
Theoretical: It is likely that the dragon will continue to purge anything that even looks crossly at it, which means anything which approaches Zilfin.
Furter theoretical: If we send anything to Zilfin, it will likely be either associated with the Skaven, or be seen as an attack, or further encroachment onto said Dragons theory.
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I think i can disprove this. We sent Rangers to Zilfin this turn, who even got eye on the Dragon enough to identify the net spell it used to drag out Skaven survivors in hiding and saw it take of into the Underway to Yar. It is extremely unlikely that our Rangers weren't spotted by the Hysh using Dragon who was on a search and destroy mission against Skryre. None of them were killed. Therefore, we can assume that it has no problem with being "looked at crossly", so to speak.
 
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People, Alectai is correct, we need to fortify Karag Yar

Remember, there is between 50 and 100k Skavens inside, they are going to enter a state of total panic when the Dragon hit them in the back
They are going to flee in every directions, we need to repulse them

[X] YAR: Fortify and garrison all entrances to the mountain.
- [X] Clan Angrund, Throng of Karak Azul, Karak Izor Immigrants
- [X] Mathilde
[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.
[X] ZILFIN: Assault the mountain to slay any surviving Skaven.
 
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Pempelune said:
@BoneyM You said that the Rangers will scout even if we chose to garrison the entrances to Yar, which is good news, but can we garrison and scout with Mathilde rather than the Rangers? I'd like for Mathilde to see the chaos for herself.
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No, if garrisoning is chosen Mathilde will be seeing to that.

SuperSonicSound said:
@BoneyM

Can mathilde go loot more stuff from say Skyre if we wanted?
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Anything interesting will go to the Loremaster by default anyway. Focus on the thunderdome.

Alectai said:
Anyway, I asked a bit back but I think it got lost in the crush?

What's the current garrison in Under-Karagril @BoneyM ? I want to make sure that's pretty strong if need be in case the Mors force there decides to pull something, or if the Red Fangs manage to break through.
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Huzkul.
 
Asheram said:
Theoretical: It is likely that the dragon will continue to purge anything that even looks crossly at it, which means anything which approaches Zilfin.
Furter theoretical: If we send anything to Zilfin, it will likely be either associated with the Skaven, or be seen as an attack, or further encroachment onto said Dragons theory.

If we send anything to Zilfin, we must ensure that
1. The dragon doesn't see it as hostile, or
2. The dragon doesn't notice it.
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I disagree; if we confine ourselves to the previously skaven-held area and then withdraw, I don't think we will piss it off. The Rangers went in and out just fine, the Mhonar Mystery was in as well. "Fuck skaven, am I right?" seems like something everyone can bond over today.
Valarauko said:
With the plan to assault the trolls, I think we may be underestimating them. Recall the massacre that would have been at Karag Lhune had the slayers not eagerly leapt to engage the trolls.

As I recall, the trolls there numbered in the several dozen.
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Yeah, it was a few dozen trolls, but they were all clumped up in a single group, which made attacking them insanely dangerous. Per Boney, the trolls in Rhyn are spread out and much easier to defeat in detail; the largest group is around five.

That said, I agree that assaulting them feels unnecessary, but nobody else is voting to fortify and point bolt-throwers in their direction.
 
[X] YAR: Fortify and garrison all entrances to the mountain.
- [X] Clan Angrund, Throng of Karak Azul, Karak Izor Immigrants
- [X] Mathilde
[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.
[X] ZILFIN: Cordon the mountain with Rangers.

Alectai said:
Mhonar Mystery seems definitively... Non-hostile towards us, probably. It bypassed the main battle lines and fucked up Skyre--which seems like it contributed to the Dragon sweeping them based on the results. Somehow it did this without being detected by the dragon.

The dragon though, yeah, that's a spicy meatball that can ruin everything if it gets pissed off enough.

Anyway, the way I see it, we get the Besiegers to clean up the trolls in Rhyn and start fortifying it, we confirm the kill on Skyre at Zilfin, and we put a cordon around Yar and catch anything that tries to run away.
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What I'm worried about is a thing that can escape the dragon, and uses the stink of Skyre chems to rob him, and when he comes back, all that's left is dwarves. So who robbed him? Dwarves, obviously.
 
picklepikkl said:
Yeah, it was a few dozen trolls, but they were all clumped up in a single group, which made attacking them insanely dangerous. Per Boney, the trolls in Rhyn are spread out and much easier to defeat in detail; the largest group is around five.
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Granted. But people are treating it like a trivial operation. Trolls aren't to be underestimated.
 
[X] YAR: Make no move until you've scouted the Karag Yar battle.
-[X] Personally.
[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.
[X] ZILFIN: Assault the mountain to slay any surviving Skaven.
 
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