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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] The Beast Awakens
-[X] Have the bolt throwers and grudge throwers position to cover the path up from the Caldera
-[X] Position ourselves at the lip of the Caldera and cast Sound to imitate the loud roaring of a large beast coming from a central location amongst the Greenskin Factions
-[X] Repeat until the Greenskins investigate or flee the area. Once Greenskins investigate or flee, signal for the attack to begin
-[X] Keep casting Sound when necessary to keep the focus of the Greenskins on the Caldera, tag team with Seija so repeat casting doesn't become too strenuous.

If the sounds from the attack is the problem, then the simplest solution is to either be so silent as to not trigger the Greenskins, or to create enough of a distraction elsewhere that the Greenskins don't investigate the citadel. We have a petty spell that can create very loud sounds, and we have heard a Dragon roar so we know what a large beast roaring sounds like. Greenskins are either going to investigate or flee from the sound, either way it will cause activity and even more noise to cover up the attack. Keep repeating the sound to ensure that focus is on the Caldera instead of elsewhere.

It's not as flashy as burning the entire town, but we have much more control over where the sound appears than where any fire we create will spread to. Additionally, another of our group can cast sounds so we have a backup-caster in case we need one. I think that waiting will bite us, and we need to act quickly so that we can secure the citadel before the Orcs get their act together.
 
DarkLight140 said:
Okay, guys, I have edited in this ONE point, but to be honest I probably shouldn't have. @BoneyM made clear a long time ago that this quest operates on key principles of "Mathilde is not an idiot and will optimize plans on her own" and "If you micromanage votes with a dozen subvotes that are all basically saying 'don't fuck this up, here's how', you annoy the GM, so don't." Almost everything important about the plan is right there in the plan name.

I'm not going to edit it further unless someone has a serious, critical problem with its core functionality that a change to the subvotes will correct, rather than a simple optimization idea.
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Besides the possible difficulty of burning it, setting it on fire may just push the Greenskins to run for the Citadel. And there's only so many we can sneak through to that side.
 
Andmeuths said:
I'm starting to sense that the vote is going to boil down to either to a plan that can be enacted today or a multi-day plan that requires a one day delay at minimum.
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Ok, so shall we try and craft a coherent "today plan"?

The basic, only requirement is to prevent thousands of reinforcements reaching the Citadel from Grobitown.
Anything else is superfluous- a bonus, but not required.

Options:
1. Big distraction,
2. Block access,
3. Kill everyone who tries.

Others?
 
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I just don't agree that a delay of one day will change things significantly and the amount of lives that we can save by killing off shamen first before the assault is pretty significant. even assuming the skaven leadership is unreachable them killing the greenskins before we get there makes things easier for us the Skaven would still have been there beforehand this just means they lost lives instead of us first and their assault on the citadel will have weakened its defences any way and more importantly the skaven will have bled their reserves to kill the greenskins and they wont have had time to barricade it in a day.

If the skaven attack first it's better for us not worse, as they'll bleed their forces taking it and then we can slam into them when they are weakened, if the skaven really will seize the chance to attack a weakened foe then making that foe us in the immediate aftermath of taking the citadel is a pretty terrible idea.

As general rule it's ALWAYS best to attack after two forces begin battling each other or in the aftermath of their fight if you're right about the skaven they're not going to attack first. They'll wait until one side has defeated the other in which case head hunting the orc casters means we're in a much stronger position to weather the skaven assault after we take the citadel.
 
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What about a combination

1. Poisonous caltrops

2. Fire bombs in grobi town to create a diversion. As far from citadel.

3. Murder in the confusion, in grobi town

Along with a diversionary army to kite the grobi army into chasing them, into a killzobe.

4. Burning shadow in citadel ritual at right time

5. Bewilder some valuable jewelry , combine with the berserker poison

6 Sabotage and assassination within citadels

7. Preparation of fallback area to retreat to in the event something goes wrong.

8. Preparation of artillery and catapults on citadel walls

9. Use lock spell to separate go libs in citadel

10. Use MAP for strategy or to know what is going on
 
We can infiltrate today, now, and kill. I'm fact I'm quite in favour of trying to start fights in Grobitown.
Never rely on an unseen, unknowable enemies actions- it's doesnt seem wise.
 
Thor's Twin said:
[X] The Beast Awakens
-[X] Have the bolt throwers and grudge throwers position to cover the path up from the Caldera
-[X] Position ourselves at the lip of the Caldera and cast Sound to imitate the loud roaring of a large beast coming from a central location amongst the Greenskin Factions
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I can't really make it farther in your vote than this; one of us has seriously misunderstood something. As I understand it, we're assaulting the Citadel, which means we don't currently hold the lip of the Caldera- that's where the Citadel is! Hauling up siege engines to aim at the Citadel-Caldera path while the orcs in the Citadel watch, possibly sound the alarm, and probably shoot at them, seems absurd. The whole problem here is that as soon as we start moving toward the Citadel with large, visibly military things, the Caldera types will start pouring up into the Citadel to join the fight- and bolt and grudge throwers are quite visible.

Mathilde can definitely get to anywhere. Rangers and fieldwardens probably can get to anywhere, or at least to most places. But heavy units like this? I don't think our plans can meaningfully incorporate using them except as part of an overall assault force, certainly not as part of a deception like this.
 
Katahiraga said:
What about a combination

1. Poisonous caltrops

2. Fire bombs in grobi town to create a diversion. As far from citadel.

3. Murder in the confusion, in grobi town

Along with a diversionary army to kite the grobi army into chasing them, into a killzobe.

4. Burning shadow in citadel ritual at right time

5. Bewilder some valuable jewelry , combine with the berserker poison

6 Sabotage and assassination within citadels

7. Preparation of fallback area to retreat to in the event something goes wrong.

8. Preparation of artillery and catapults on citadel walls

9. Use lock spell to separate go libs in citadel

10. Use MAP for strategy or to know what is going on
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That plan has probably about seven too many steps, considering no plan survives contact with the enemy. :)
 
DarkLight140 said:
I can't really make it farther in your vote than this; one of us has seriously misunderstood something. As I understand it, we're assaulting the Citadel, which means we don't currently hold the lip of the Caldera- that's where the Citadel is! Hauling up siege engines to aim at the Citadel-Caldera path while the orcs in the Citadel watch, possibly sound the alarm, and probably shoot at them, seems absurd. The whole problem here is that as soon as we start moving toward the Citadel with large, visibly military things, the Caldera types will start pouring up into the Citadel to join the fight- and bolt and grudge throwers are quite visible.
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BoneyM said:
Positioning artillery on the top of the caldera to bombard the approach below is viable for grudge throwers and bolt throwers.
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It wouldn't be viable if doing so would ruin an entire operation.
 
DarkLight140 said:
I can't really make it farther in your vote than this; one of us has seriously misunderstood something. As I understand it, we're assaulting the Citadel, which means we don't currently hold the lip of the Caldera- that's where the Citadel is! Hauling up siege engines to aim at the Citadel-Caldera path while the orcs in the Citadel watch, possibly sound the alarm, and probably shoot at them, seems absurd. The whole problem here is that as soon as we start moving toward the Citadel with large, visibly military things, the Caldera types will start pouring up into the Citadel to join the fight- and bolt and grudge throwers are quite visible.

Mathilde can definitely get to anywhere. Rangers and fieldwardens probably can get to anywhere, or at least to most places. But heavy units like this? I don't think our plans can meaningfully incorporate using them except as part of an overall assault force, certainly not as part of a deception like this.
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I'm not for his plan, but if you can't hit the path, how can you hit the grobitown itself with artillery?
 
Alliterate said:
Ok, so shall we try and craft a coherent "today plan"?

The basic, only requirement is to prevent near-unlimited reinforcements reaching the Citadel from Grobitown.
Anything else is superfluous- a bonus, but not required.

Options:
1. Big distraction,
2. Block access,
3. Kill everyone who tries.

Others?
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The other thought that strikes me is that we'll have to seal off direct access up from Grobitown to the Citadel anyway.

Could we... survey the passage, MAP it out, get better charges from the Engineers, and blow it up? (Boosting the 2-in-3 chance of success?)
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
I just don't agree that a delay of one day will change things significantly and the amount of lives that we can save by killing off shamen first before the assault is pretty significant. even assuming the skaven leadership is unreachable them killing the greenskins before we get there makes things easier for us the Skaven would still have been there beforehand this just means they lost lives instead of us first and their assault on the citadel will have weakened its defences any way and more importantly the skaven will have bled their reserves to kill the greenskins and they wont have had time to barricade it in a day.

If the skaven attack first it's better for us not worse, as they'll bleed their forces taking it and then we can slam into them when they are weakened, if the skaven really will seize the chance to attack a weakened foe then making that foe us in the immediate aftermath of taking the citadel is a pretty terrible idea.

As general rule it's ALWAYS best to attack after two forces begin battling each other or in the aftermath of their fight if you're right about the skaven they're not going to attack first. They'll wait until one side has defeated the other in which case head hunting the orc casters means we're in a much stronger position to weather the skaven assault after we take the citadel.
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And what about other greenskins? Large armies from the Karags?
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
You seem to misunderstand, the defenders aren't a major issue, we can overrun them easily enough. It's keeping hundreds, thousands of greenskins right outside the citadel from flooding in when they hear a battle in it and the Greenskin defenders of the Citadel aren't able or willing to stop them.
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I'm relatively new to the Quest, and don't have Mathilde's spell selection memorized. Can we make a massive fuck off Wall of Silence?
 
Thor's Twin said:
It wouldn't be viable if doing so would ruin an entire operation.
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
I'm not for his plan, but if you can't hit the path, how can you hit the grobitown itself with artillery?
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I had thought that the GM word there applied in the context of it being done during the assault. That is, once the attack is going on it doesn't matter that the siege weapons are visible to everyone who looks, because the orcs in the Citadel are too busy to deal with them and the orcs in Grobi Town below are being held off from assaulting them by [WINNING PLAN HERE]. This seems logical enough.

But I have serious doubts about a plan which requires getting our siege weapons into position to bombard the orcs and then convincing them that they should investigate strange noises instead of, say, that line of lethal-looking bolt throwers and the dwarf crews manning them.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
And what about other greenskins? Large armies from the Karags?
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It's a possibility but they'd also end up infighting if they come so it's kind of more or the same? We got exceptionally unlucky last time after the ritual and thats the reason why the green skins weren't slaughtering each other if other green skin armies come they'll fight amongst each other first. So we can still make use of their infighting to hurt them.

Remember they only stopped the infighting due to a nat 100. I don't think it's sensible to make plans on that happening again, if another green skin force comes here they'll end up brawling. Mathilde could even make use of the infighting to headcap that force or go after their shamen as well.

I'm not going to say it's totally with out risk but if the other green skin forces move here then better outside of their forts than in?

Ganurath said:
I'm relatively new to the Quest, and don't have Mathilde's spell selection memorized. Can we make a massive fuck off Wall of Silence?
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!

As a Journeywoman, Grey Wizard Mathilde Weber is dropped into the deep end of intrigue and double-dealing after a surprise assignment to the necromancer-afflicted province of Stirland. Follow her trials, travails, feats and discoveries as she makes her way in the world and does her best to...
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Here's a link to our spell list so you have some idea of what Mathilde is properly capable of.
 
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Alliterate said:
Ok, so shall we try and craft a coherent "today plan"?

The basic, only requirement is to prevent near-unlimited reinforcements reaching the Citadel from Grobitown.
Anything else is superfluous- a bonus, but not required.

Options:
1. Big distraction,
2. Block access,
3. Kill everyone who tries.

Others?
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Why not all three?

Alliterate said:
That plan has probably about seven too many steps, considering no plan survives contact with the enemy. :)
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I made a plan (Hat Trick) that consists of independent actions that work great in concert but have value even if all other actions fail. Mathidle fires up the grobi town and doesn't let go, rangers or artillery secure the pathway with poisoned caltrops and archers act as a line of defense when we take the citadel. Do you think it lacks something or is overcomplicated?
 
Well, the rangers got a look at the other side of the Citadel so should be able to get themselves back there, and they probably got a look at the state of the wood. Besides that, we just need to ask @BoneyM what handheld/carried incendiaries are available and if the Dwarves think they'll work.

Of course, that runs into the issue of the flames driving the Greenskins towards the Citadel for "safety"
 
Alliterate said:
Today. He assured us they'd stick around after a night of revelry and fight today.
Tomorrow, we've no guarantee they don't wonder why they've not been paid yet.
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Is there any reason for Belegar to not throw some extra money in advance?

I might be missing something here but Belegar's goal is to take Karak Eight Peaks, not get money and retreat so the more ground gets claimed the better because not only will the Karak expand and be safer but also that ground is denied to the grobi and the Skaven.

Like ideally Belegar would want to clear the greenskins with the forces he has so he and the dawi reinforcements can focus on Skaven without having immediate worries about a Waagh forming inside the mountains.
 
What if something like

[X] Plan Go Commando
-[X] Survey and MAP the entrance from Grobitown to the Citadel, use this to generate a better set of charges to collapse it.
-[X] sneak back up to gate, plant charges, blow it up. Rangers are infiltrating to Caldera rim to overlook passage, lotus poison bolts to provide a backup plan.
--[X] if the explosion works, well, actually we're good to go. Roll up artillery to dominate the passage as the battle is underway, to further dissuade approach to the Citadel. If it's been less successful, adapt, but focus our subsequent efforts on dissuading entry to the Citadel.
 
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Really wish Mathilde had a spell to sound like someone else. Would love to Doppelganger into an Orc and then either impersonate one of the new Warleaders or challenge one for leadership. Afterwards, lead your group against another one in a fight for supremacy in which both sides lose.

Still thinking of how such a plan could be pulled off. Maybe challenging one to a fight without words, then using the berserk poison to start an all-out brawl?

notanautomaton said:
attacking the southern lands is largely a way to rapidly reduce the population and/or get enough food
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Personal headcanon is that fantasy-land at least partially avoids the historical issue of children dying so much. They might still have a dozen kids per couple, but they are using those to repopulate after every disaster.
BoneyM said:
When last you saw the Hall of he Moon it had been strewn with corpses
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"the Moon"; "Moon, it"
BoneyM said:
I don't know how much he lost or how it will effect him
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affect
Alratan said:
What problems do people see with weaponising the Citadel's shadow.

It seems like an amazing opportunity to exploit what's normally a niche spell.

A fire is both much more limited and much riskier to start, a setting fires in multiple places at once is very hard.
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I'm pretty much categorically against relying on huge spells. Don't trust them not to screw us over on a bad roll. I much prefer several smaller actions with individually smaller consequences for failure.
 
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