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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[x] This wealth is the future of Karak Eight Peaks. Stay here with the Hoard
Good enough excuse for a rest, which I think is what Mathilde needs...

WorldSlayer said:
So all of these are quite nice but the real winner here is The Deceiver.
Listeners to our lies will never think we're lying.
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That isn't quite how it works.
BoneyM said:
- The Deceiver: Lies you have developed beforehand will be delivered perfectly. The listener may believe you to be mistaken, but they will never believe that you are lying. Cannot be used to tell truths.
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Emphasis mine. The orks wouldn't automatically think we're the boss, they'd think we think we're the boss. Which means we're a challenger. And every Orc Boss knows how to deal with a challenger...

(brain currently leaking out of ears due to overload of awesome... or possibly WAAAGH energies)
 
Turns out I somehow missed all comments between page 998 and page 1023 without noticing. Which means that maybe some of my latest questions and comments were already answered and addressed. Whoops.

BoneyM said:
In the right ballpark, yeah.
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How does that jive with none of the results being strictly more positive/negative. Because 4 seems like the most clearly positive while 1, 2 and 3 would be strictly negatives, not to mention 6.
 
Rafin said:
We pretty much placed almost all of them based on our educated guesses as to where they would be most comfortable and experienced. Instead of using educated guesses, wouldn't it make sense to just ask them? King Belegar knows little regarding our skills and how to use them, so he gives us near free reign as to how to apply ourselves. We know quite a bit more than him when it comes to the journeymanlings capabilities, but we aren't really experts either. So asking them about it while retaining the right to make the final decision makes sense I think.
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Like I said: The power dynamic at play in an active warzone isn't a two-way street. To stop and ask where they think they'd fit best on today's battlefield does weird things to the power dynamic and undermines Mathilde's authority, making her look either ignorant of strategy or a pushover that cares more about making her underlings like her than winning battles. A lot of how battlefield power structures works depends on maintaining the illusion that the chain of command knows all and sees all, and even if Mathilde's working on nothing deeper than 'put Panoramia with the Halflings because she likes them', the illusion that there's a deeper strategy at play is powerful. And if this hypothetical Panoramia has the thought in her head that maybe she's just with the Halflings because she said she liked them and Mathilde actually doesn't have any deeper strategic considerations, that's poison to morale.

That's the in-character reason. There's also the out-of-character reason that if I listed where everyone wanted to go, that'd be an autopick for a lot of people. If Panoramia's options previously had a 'Panoramia says Halflings' line next to it, I don't know if the poison option would have been able to win out.

Rafin said:
Would that have been in addition to the Good result or instead?

Also, isn't this one pretty much what would have happened if we didn't intervene, or am I misunderstanding something? I thought splitting up Gork and Mork was the ultimate goal behind the ritual, no?
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Maybe as well as, maybe instead. My general thinking was that it'd've started with Gork and Mork right at the brink of war and Mathilde could either shove them over it or used the greater disadvantage to greater advantage. But I didn't end up putting thought into the details of it because that's not what the dice went with. Fully fleshing out every junction in advance instead of waiting and seeing what dice and votes decide would mean it'd take ten times longer to update.

Rafin said:
How does that jive with none of the results being strictly more positive/negative. Because 4 seems like the most clearly positive while 1, 2 and 3 would be strictly negatives, not to mention 6.
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Note my choice of words. Right ballpark.
 
FlyingScanian said:
[x] This wealth is the future of Karak Eight Peaks. Stay here with the Hoard
Good enough excuse for a rest, which I think is what Mathilde needs...


That isn't quite how it works.

Emphasis mine. The orks wouldn't automatically think we're the boss, they'd think we think we're the boss. Which means we're a challenger. And every Orc Boss knows how to deal with a challenger...

(brain currently leaking out of ears due to overload of awesome... or possibly WAAAGH energies)
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Read the associated story that goes with that line. In the story the Orc Boss doesn't quite believe it even when Mathilde says that he himself stated that she was the boss. Basically he felt that she must be mistaken somehow.

Of course that quickly came to an end when he was promptly killed and at that point between everyone believing that she couldn't possibly be a liar and being a 10 foot tall Orc Warboss covered in magical bling no one was particularly willing to question her.

[X] Keep to the original plan. Find the invasion force and join them as they fight their way through Karag Nar.
 
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[X] Keep to the original plan. Find the invasion force and join them as they fight their way through Karag Nar.

Chortling over how awesome it was to have Ranald mug Mork for all he was worth.
 
[X] Keep to the original plan. Find the invasion force and join them as they fight their way through Karag Nar.

Changing my vote to this. I like this plan better than staying with the hoard.
 
BoneyM said:
Like I said: The power dynamic at play in an active warzone isn't a two-way street. To stop and ask where they think they'd fit best on today's battlefield does weird things to the power dynamic and undermines Mathilde's authority, making her look either ignorant of strategy or a pushover that cares more about making her underlings like her than winning battles. A lot of how battlefield power structures works depends on maintaining the illusion that the chain of command knows all and sees all, and even if Mathilde's working on nothing deeper than 'put Panoramia with the Halflings because she likes them', the illusion that there's a deeper strategy at play is powerful. And if this hypothetical Panoramia has the thought in her head that maybe she's just with the Halflings because she said she liked them and Mathilde actually doesn't have any deeper strategic considerations, that's poison to morale.

That's the in-character reason. There's also the out-of-character reason that if I listed where everyone wanted to go, that'd be an autopick for a lot of people. If Panoramia's options previously had a 'Panoramia says Halflings' line next to it, I don't know if the poison option would have been able to win out.



Maybe as well as, maybe instead. My general thinking was that it'd've started with Gork and Mork right at the brink of war and Mathilde could either shove them over it or used the greater disadvantage to greater advantage. But I didn't end up putting thought into the details of it because that's not what the dice went with. Fully fleshing out every junction in advance instead of waiting and seeing what dice and votes decide would mean it'd take ten times longer to update.



Note my choice of words. Right ballpark.
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So Boney, after that wonderful episode of Grand Theft Divinity, is Matilida officially Ranalds favorite mortal?

Also, the coin is very nice, but I'm surprised we didn't get a Divine Mark from that.
 
@BoneyM I don't know if you saw the speculation earthlier about sorcery and using ulgu to touch Ranald, so just a quick IC question for now, does Mathilde think she could do that again, when there isn't a river of Waagh energy running through her soul? To be clear I do not mean for her to cast anything with the connection, just attain it under normal circumstances, since that is the bear minimum for considering more along the line of thought.
 
Oh man. If we combine Doppelganger with something to copy sounds too... And if we build up some lies and do some preparatory work...

We could do stuff like sending false orders to enemies by pretending to be messengers. Telling them that "the Boss said to go here and attack!" or "The Boss got tired of Skaven. Krump 'em, boys!" or "Yeah, they totally said they'd hire you." And since the artifact convinces people that we, at least, believe that we are telling the truth... we could make people think that we have legitimate orders. Then so long as we do it properly like not giving orders we know are out of character or questionable... or, basically, if we stick to things Orcs/Goblins/Skaven/Ogres/necromancers/cultists/whatever are already willing to do and would think sounds like legitimate orders, but the specifics of which (timing, etc) would screw somebody over...

Of course, the artifact says that you have to set things up beforehand. So it's not a blank check or anything. But it could enable some shenanigans.
 
DragonParadox said:
@BoneyM I don't know if you saw the speculation earthlier about sorcery and using ulgu to touch Ranald, so just a quick IC question for now, does Mathilde think she could do that again, when there isn't a river of Waagh energy running through her soul? To be clear I do not mean for her to cast anything with the connection, just attain it under normal circumstances, since that is the bear minimum for considering more along the line of thought.
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She didn't use Ulgu to touch Ranald, she held it in Ranald's direction and what he did with it was his own work. The moment he took control of it, it ceased to be arcane magic and became divine magic.

Exactly what the distinction is, is a very interesting question and one that Mathilde would have to do a lot of study to take even a guess at.
 
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BoneyM said:
She didn't use Ulgu to touch Ranald, she held it in Ranald's direction and what he did with it was his own work. The moment he took control of it, it ceased to be arcane magic and became divine magic.

Exactly what the distinction is, is a very interesting question and one that Mathilde would have to do a lot of study to take even a guess at.
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So that means she knows what aetheryc direction is 'Ranald-ward'. Does she believe that with more skill and training she could touch him, or is this a dead line of thought?
 
Rafin said:
How would a goblin devoid of brutality even look like, let alone rule any greenskin?
This is a genuine question asking for speculation, not a rhetorical one designed to disagree with you.
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Skarsnik in canon was the ruler of Karak Eight Peaks, so you can look him up if you're interested. Ultimately, recall that every other race manages to be pretty brutal at times even without a patron God of Brutality.

FlyingScanian said:
Emphasis mine. The orks wouldn't automatically think we're the boss, they'd think we think we're the boss. Which means we're a challenger. And every Orc Boss knows how to deal with a challenger...
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Still, a guaranteed way to get yourself a duel with the Warboss isn't terrible, if you think you have a silver bullet for the fight.

BoneyM said:
Note my choice of words. Right ballpark.
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For those confused, this means the overall post was broadly correct, not each individual guess. I personally maintain that 6 would have been a good thing, along the lines of "Mathilde gets the energy with some tweaking from Ranald, and is like Sigmar before he ascended" not Slaanesh intervening.
 
[X] Keep to the original plan. Find the invasion force and join them as they fight their way through Karag Nar.

Although if this option does win, I'd prefer that we make our report and then relax for a bit instead of jumping back into fighting.

Maybe do some command and control with a MAP again, if we feel up to it.
 
How would it look to her junior journeymanlings, if she is unavailable currently, to assist them?

Shouldn't she teach them some of her tricks, or some magic lessons? Later as a teacher.
 
[x] This wealth is the future of Karak Eight Peaks. Stay here with the Hoard

This update was incredible. It is the exact reason I was so giddy about the return of this quest.

Love the balance between world shaking impacts and keeping the character believable and relatable you give mathilde.
 
Hey, @BoneyM What would have happened if we'd critted that Power Drain roll? With Ranald's Blessing and the other bonus, the total roll would have been 141.
 
Mathilde after taking the Warboss down.

'Oi you gitz. Gork and Mork have sent me a big vishun. Umies are too fukin weak.
So we iz going to gather da biggest Waagh.
And we is going to stomp every beastieboy, spikey git and dead'ead in za Warudo.

Git da word out.
 
DragonParadox said:
So that means she knows what aetheryc direction is 'Ranald-ward'. Does she believe that with more skill and training she could touch him, or is this a dead line of thought?
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She can reach out in his general direction but there's a point where Mathilde's soul ends and Ranald's divinity begins, and there's a mind-boggling amount of divinity to go through before you reach whatever it is that one could say is actually Ranald unless he has reason to make it otherwise. The problem is that there's been effectively zero research* into the point where the arcane meets the divine. The churches in general get very touchy about it, especially when wizards are the ones asking, and under the strictures of any other god it'd be a theological minefield. But in Mathilde's experience Ranald is difficult to offend and easy to amuse, and that allows for the possibility of investigating further. It would take a lot of effort just to have an idea of what the right questions are, but it could absolutely pay off in all sorts of unexpected ways.

*In the Empire, at least.

Silver719 said:
Hey, @BoneyM What would have happened if we'd critted that Power Drain roll? With Ranald's Blessing and the other bonus, the total roll would have been 141.
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Greenskins become greyskins and start promoting democracy.

(serious answer: I have no idea. It was made as a 'do bad things happen' roll and I didn't put thought into what an exceptionally good result would be. Some sort of unambiguously positive long-term effect of Waaagh exposure?)
 
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