Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Alratan said:
Tome of Salvation says ' Arcane Lore and the Divine Lore are mutually exclusive; the study, focus, and mindset required by any Lore Talent is such that you may only use one at a time. For example, an Anointed Priest of Morr who joins the Amethyst Order effectively abandons his faith in favour of scholarly learning, and thus loses access to the Lore of Morr in favour of the Lore of Death. Conversely, an Amethyst Wizard who chooses to become a servant of Morr would set aside his academic approach to working with magic and embrace his faith—using Divine Lore rather than Arcane Lore. '

Volans seems to be talking about sorcery there, note the reference to using divine assistance to avoid miscasts.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's true but honestly that seems pretty heavily pushed due to not wanting players to game their way into having multiple lores. Especially as the same thing is stated about having a Dark lore like Necromancy which is clearly dumb as at that point you're well past the point of caring about the negative effect it has on your soul.
 
[X] You are a Magister of the Grey Order, and follow the traditions laid down by Teclis and Magnus the Pious. Try to ground the energies
 
Every source of magic requires its users to cultivate a mindset that makes them compatible with it. Humans can be capable of maintaining separate and mutually exclusive worldviews, but that does bad things to your sanity even before factoring in that you're double dipping in magical energies. Mathilde might be able to juggle between Ulgu and Ranald, but it wouldn't take too long for her relationship with one or both to suffer.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Yeah, but I don't think that people want Mathilde to become Divine Loremasters of Ranald if it means losing out on spellcasting. Even those who are voting to fence off the stuff to Ranald in hopes of getting a cut would rather not lose out on arcane magic, I bet.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
My point is more that the in-universe reason that Magisters don't do much prayer is because it doesn't really mesh with how they tend to think about magick, and the attitudes they've cultivated. Can you balance sufficient faith and piety in a god while still embracing the rational, self-determinism of the colleges? Lorewise, maybe you could, but you'd probably have to be thinking about things very differently to a typical faithful, or else you'd be bouncing back and forth between mindsets in a way that would do strange things to the mind.

Alratan said:
I dimly recall BoneyM saying something to that effect, although I can't currently find it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You're probably thinking about how, as the arcane marks progress and the wizard in question becomes more attuned to their wind, their ability to touch the others tapers off. It's very rare for someone to retain their ability to touch the other winds after devoting themselves to a wind and accumulating marks as a result.

Obviously, divine lores work quite differently, being made of chaos stuff filtered through a god, so it's hard to say if this matters.
 
Warlord D Thoran said:
but if the two orc god are divided into gork the god of only brutality and mork the god of only cunning would that have not divided the orc race more so

would not a religious war were worships of ether god try and wipe out the worshipers of the other.

so it goes like this normally two greenskin tribe fight each other, with the winner absorbing the survivors of the losers, now they only do so of tribes that worship their god and exterminate the tribe that worship the other god
if we are lucky it course a goblin/orc split.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
we would like that to happen yes. It's too bad mork hijacked us and killed the heretics with our body.
primemountain said:
This is a massive gamble and will end in celebration or tears. Let's find out which.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
thatsRanaldbaby.gif
 
I'm wondering, with the steal option, (assuming this whole thing is done with one roll), what the various break-points there could be between a crit and crit-fail would look like, and I'm imagining something along these lines:

095-100(+) : We somehow transfer both Gork-and-not-Mork and Mork-and-not-Gork into Ranald's safe-keeping/maw (without anyone being the wiser, not even G+M proper), and flush with gribbly god-stuff and largese, he makes us pope of gamblers, some sort of divine abilities to match, and "Ranald's Very Best Relic Dice Set".

001-005 : G+M immediately know what's going on, and beat up Ranald for his lunch money, then they start playing whack-a-mole with our brain-meats, setting off a desperate attempt to get away/hide before we run out of life seed charges and/or they clue into it and destroy it (and us).
 
veekie said:
-Death College PROBABLY has a bit of a problem with slippage to necromancy, though they, like the Bright College, are a bit on the destructive side(and depressive to boot). Tighter controls probably just to make sure they aren't going to the dark side.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Imagine working at a retirement home as a caretaker for the elderly for 10 years.

Then imagine someone breaks into the hospice. Kills half of the inhabitants and decorates their rooms with their entrails.

The other less fortunate half were kidnapped and forced to fight against their descendents until their inevitable brutal death.

I imagine death wizards hate necromancers more than just about anyone else in the world.
 
zxzx24 said:
Imagine working at a retirement home as a caretaker for the elderly for 10 years.

Then imagine someone breaks into the hospice. Kills half of the inhabitants and decorates their rooms with their entrails.

The other less fortunate half were kidnapped and forced to fight against their descendents until their inevitable brutal death.

I imagine death wizards hate necromancers more than just about anyone else in the world.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

While that is true, they and the priests of Mor are canonically some of the most likely to fall to the temptations of necromancy. Sometimes you just lose hope...
 
agumentic said:
I see no reason why would they do so if present it as it is, a tool for us to be more safe if we fuck up our magic and get showered in Dhar.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Of course it would be bad to present it as tool to fuck up our magic. We are not supposed to fuck up our magic, the belt may protect us but not fragile things around us like the Empire. Present it as a tool to help us hunt down fools who mess with Dhar maybe.
 
Harried said:
I'm wondering, with the steal option, (assuming this whole thing is done with one roll), what the various break-points there could be between a crit and crit-fail would look like, and I'm imagining something along these lines:

095-100(+) : We somehow transfer both Gork-and-not-Mork and Mork-and-not-Gork into Ranald's safe-keeping/maw (without anyone being the wiser, not even G+M proper), and flush with gribbly god-stuff and largese, he makes us pope of gamblers, some sort of divine abilities to match, and "Ranald's Very Best Relic Dice Set".

001-005 : G+M immediately know what's going on, and beat up Ranald for his lunch money, then they start playing whack-a-mole with our brain-meats, setting off a desperate attempt to get away/hide before we run out of life seed charges and/or they clue into it and destroy it (and us).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm hoping we already had the die roll for the results, and we received the good, but not dramatic outcome.
 
BoneyM said:
Every source of magic requires its users to cultivate a mindset that makes them compatible with it. Humans can be capable of maintaining separate and mutually exclusive worldviews, but that does bad things to your sanity even before factoring in that you're double dipping in magical energies. Mathilde might be able to juggle between Ulgu and Ranald, but it wouldn't take too long for her relationship with one or both to suffer.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, being a Priest and a Magister isn't going to happen. You need a dedicated lore for that, and we don't have one. What we can do, is make Ranald happy, or angry. What happens after he is happy or angry, with a lot of extra power on hand, is up to him. That's how gods work.

Now we're hoping for a good result, where good result is anything from "The Mountain doesn't blow up and take us with it" to something that includes that and some kind of boon. But if you are betting on Ranald? He has options. Assuming it works.
 
BoneyM said:
Every source of magic requires its users to cultivate a mindset that makes them compatible with it. Humans can be capable of maintaining separate and mutually exclusive worldviews, but that does bad things to your sanity even before factoring in that you're double dipping in magical energies. Mathilde might be able to juggle between Ulgu and Ranald, but it wouldn't take too long for her relationship with one or both to suffer.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's only for juggling them as fundamentally seperate lores though, right?

If they could be combined into a form of Sorcery (divinely-supported arcane magic), it might work in one mindset.
 
Artemis1992 said:
That's only for juggling them as fundamentally seperate lores though, right?

If they could be combined into a form of Sorcery (divinely-supported arcane magic), it might work in one mindset.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It canonically does work that way, as attested by Chaos sorcerers and Nehekaran mage-priest, but they all start from the other end of the spectrum, they are priests first and foremost who use their power to leverage arcane magic.
 
DragonParadox said:
It canonically does work that way, as attested by Chaos sorcerers and Nehekaran mage-priest, but they all start from the other end of the spectrum, they are priests first and foremost who use their power to leverage arcane magic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And Bretonnian Damsels, who are arguably the foremost human magic users in the world, eventually being able to use their Lore of the Lady to manipulate the energies of three different Winds as well as casting pure divine spells. The Lady is of course best god (as long as you're a Bretonnian aristocrat), given the whole other heap of blessings she dole out though.

There are unfortunate downsides to that deal though...
 
Last edited:
BoneyM said:
That's a fairly significant if.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Based on the IF of surviving this whole incident, then followed by a few smaller ifs.

I think canonical examples are only Damsels, Nehekarans and Tzeentchian Sorcerers, who all had more than faith and skill also a solid amount of knowledge on the matter (two because of long-standing magical traditions to build on, one because God of Knowledge and Chaos cheats)

Maybe research would help, though I wouldn't be 100% certain it would be worth the investment even if we knew it could work.
 
(MORGRIM enters stage left, in his hands is an OMINOUSLY LISTING CRATE)

Morgrim: "Which one of you man-godlings wanted a shipment of "custom dice"?"
 
Its nice that zealots of Heyndrich and his priesthood is on the other side of the empire. Though if trade and money flows through the silk road again then the secret money war between Ranald and Heyndrich has a new battleground
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top