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Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)

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[X] Sophos and Phobos
-[X] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
-[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
-[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
-[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
-[X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
-[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
-[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
-[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 1, Friendliness 7, Courage 5, Magnificence 4, Wisdom 4

Or speak softly and carry a big stick.

The colonies must be created in a controlled manner or risk them being stomped out by angry barbaroi. At the same time, we should open the door to any Metic that wishes to go. Our Metics have fought alongside and supported us for decades. Let them be rewarded for their loyalty with citizenship in a new colony, and support that colony with membership to the Epulian League.

If Athens wants to stretch itself thin, then by all means. They cannot fight their war and try and start a new one on the other side of the Mediterranean sea and expect to win. So let them help us ensure that Sicilians stay divided. We can use their talents to sway Selinous back to neutrality and join the rest of Sicily in a long war against the Sicels.

Finally the pirates. They need to be taken out, root and branch. Especially as we plan to plant a colony there to ensure they do not start stirring things again. I vote for the Iron Ram because our forces are not large enough to play games with them. We need to focus our forces and fight together with our allies to truly be effective. This is not something we want to deal with again 10 years from now. Set fire to the coastline and make sure they curse the pirates for bringing us down on their heads. For this I choose the Dalmatae. We can only bring 300 Hoplite and 200 Psiloi along so we need as many men as we can get to draw them out while we pillage their cities behind them. Make them an example so people can see that it is much better to be our friend than to be our enemy. If we truly want to bring the Adriatic Sea under our control, then we need to show that we have the power to keep it pirate free. The Dalmatae help again by reducing tensions further when we do set up colonies so we have an easier time ensuring that our colonies not only survive, but thrive.
 
[X] Sophos and Phobos
-[X] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
-[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
-[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
-[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
-[X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
-[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
-[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
-[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 1, Friendliness 7, Courage 5, Magnificence 4, Wisdom 4
 
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As for the Dalmatae, there are 3 problems:
1)as @Deadly Snark noted, they are completly unhellenized. Our Obander's diplomatic abilties arises in a large part due to his role as an ideal greek gentleman, and his overwrought metaphors are unlikely to gain any traction in a society now known (in wikipedia at least) only for being significantly more primitive than their neighbors in everything except the making of weapons
2)They will be much slower than us: They have no boats and will be moving though hills for much of the way. This will either slow us down , or open them up to defeat in detail if we don't stick with them.
3)Ambush prevention. We NEED those 40 screening ships. Seriously, just take a look at any of those islands in google earth and tell me we can make it through this without a big pile of nimble ships to spot danger ahead. Especially since we won't have such a map, and will be unaware of potential ambush sites.
 
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racnor said:
As for the Dalmatae, there are 3 problems:
1)as @Deadly Snark noted, they are completly unhellenized. Our Obander's diplomatic abilties arises in a large part due to his role as an ideal greek gentleman, and his overwrought metaphors are unlikely to gain any traction in a society now known (in wikipedia at least) only for being significantly more primitive than their neighbors in everything except the making of weapons
2)They will be much slower than us: They have no boats and will be moving though hills for much of the way. This will either slow us down , or open them up to defeat in detail if we don't stick with them.
3)Ambush prevention. We NEED those 40 screening ships. Seriously, just take a look at any of those islands in google earth and tell me we can make it through this without a big pile of nimble ships to spot danger ahead. Especially since we won't have such a map, and will be unaware of potential ambush sites.
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My experience with this quest on a meta level has been that no option is entirely bad, and any option will work -- the question is what items synergize best with others.

I wouldn't worry too much about those screening ships -- barbarian raiders in the interior will probably draw off manpower and attention, preventing those ambushes from getting off the ground in the first place.

There might be other reasons to prioritize others over the Dalmatae; I'm just saying that I wouldn't worry too much about the last point specifically.
 
Secretariat said:
My experience with this quest on a meta level has been that no option is entirely bad, and any option will work -- the question is what items synergize best with others.

I wouldn't worry too much about those screening ships -- barbarian raiders in the interior will probably draw off manpower and attention, preventing those ambushes from getting off the ground in the first place.

There might be other reasons to prioritize others over the Dalmatae; I'm just saying that I wouldn't worry too much about the last point specifically.
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I guess "need" is too strong a word; I don't think we would auto fail without them or anything. I just consider ambushes to be the greatest threat, and the pentecontors the best way to improve our chances on those rolls.
 
It is true that Obander is very Hellenic, and that may make it it difficult. That does not signify that what the Dalmatae have to offer is not worth the risk.

Consider @racnor Which is more likely to get ambushed to get destroyed in an ambush, a fleet of 3 Triremes or a fleet of 20+? And it is not like we have poor naval tradition. We have spent 35 years ensuring that our rowers and captains are the best of the best and our ships are not slow and bulky. In fact
Cetashwayo said:
Part of a Trireme's crew is its marines, actually. You could have as many as 30 with a captain, a few officers, and then the rowers. Often that's where the Athenian 200 per ship comes from, and it's why I feel comfortable having 150 per ship in Eretria if the ships are shorter and more aimed at manuever and rowing over boarding actions. It's quite useful for raiding islands.
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I have this Word of God that says our ships are specifically made for maneuvering and raiding islands. Such as those we are plan to attack.

I say we are well prepared for this war.
 
[X] Plan Phobos

Apart from the Athenian question, which was mostly an emotional thing on my part, this is the plan that aligns the most with my desires.

With the increased discussion, I have decided to withdraw my vote until I have had a clearer picture.
 
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@Cetashwayo - Would it be unusual for a Greek to have business ties to Carthage or family relations (like, a cousin married to a Carthaginian or something?)
 
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Sivantic said:
Consider @racnor Which is more likely to get ambushed to get destroyed in an ambush, a fleet of 3 Triremes or a fleet of 20+?
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We're both for plan Iron Ram, no dispute there. I'd just prefer a fleet of 58 over a fleet of 18.

Sivantic said:
Consider @racnor Which is more likely to get ambushed to get destroyed in an ambush, a fleet of 3 Triremes or a fleet of 20+? And it is not like we have poor naval tradition. We have spent 35 years ensuring that our rowers and captains are the best of the best and our ships are not slow and bulky. In fact

I have this Word of God that says our ships are specifically made for maneuvering and raiding islands. Such as those we are plan to attack.
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Yes, decades of iterative training, all to be lost in moments if the ship sinks to a desperate pentekontor ram that it did not see coming until too late or could not avoid because it struck some sandbar known only to the locals, sending 150 rowers and 55 of our levy to Poseidon. Consider instead that same ram colliding with a Histri Pentekontor, spoiling the ambush at the cost of 50 mediocre rowers and about 5 warriors.


Also, the Enetoi and Histri are not exactly slouches on land either for our goals. Yes, they provide only 200 warriors, but those warriors will be present for every raid. The Dalmatae can only march slowly up the coast, while our naval friends will be with us every step of the way, raiding every island.
 
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Hear me, the grieving Kleon Prokopios now, Citizens of Eretria! Grieving, yes, for our fallen cousins and friend under siege! I will speak more of them, if you hear me then, but we have great work before us and it is more urgent sadly than the great calamity of our comrades.

We started to follow the gods in the proper way, our calendar is shaped, our temples are ready. Let three of the honored Gods be our guide next year! I propose the Artemis, Ploutos, Athene Plan.

First, our Colonial Ambitions. Artemis can guide our hand as she is favoured by the barbaroi too. We need to be on friendly terms with the locals if we want our colonies to succeed. We need to Restrict them too. If they grow too fast or too strong, there will be more problems with them than gains. If Eretria can control it's children, then our trade can flourish in the Adria and we can solve the problem of the city's poor and landless. If we can accomplish this, we can amit the colonies to the League freely, gaining new cities with thankful citizens.
Next, the Congress. A hard decision, but the gods can lead us there too. We decided to honor the God of wealth with a festival, so hear his words there. A peaceful Sicily is good for our trade, good for all Hellenes in Megale Hellas. For that, we must keep this meeting between local powers only, the Athenians must accept that we don't need their interference. We need to win Gela to our side. Not only that will be a direct blow against the power of Syrakousai, but that city is a symbol of a unified Sicily which can be used against our interest. On the plan during the conference, I am torn. A unified Siceliote island is a dangerous neighbor. But as we are allies of the League, we will be drawn into their prolonged conflicts which will weaken our own position here on the mainland and on the Adria too. Also, inciting war against the locals can be a thorn in everyones side, deep inside the island. A swift war with Carthage can bleed our our enemies while win our allies glory, but that southern beast is richer than ever and ferocius too. If we propose war, we have to fight it - and I think we have more urgent fights. Let hear the Word of Ploutos, let there be peace!
Lastly, but not leastly the matter of the Liburnian Expedition. Here, we have to hear the wisdom of Athene. We have to be the shield of the trade and peace not the blood sword in the hand of Ares. Because the Iron Ram plan is warmongering, and the worst kind - an unwinnable one. We don't have the resources for this bold plan, nor the allies. So I propose to rely on our mighty fleet to gain the waves first. If we manage to lure those faithless pirates into battle, we can crush them. Remember the battle of Fifty Masts, the trieres is the winning choice! If we secure Issa, we quickstart our first colony too, fortified with forts. And some of you fear that we will be ambushed between the isles. That is guaranteed if we strike too deep or too recklessly. But Epiktetos is a man of moderation, of great cunning and of understanding things military. He can lead us to a great victory at sea. For that, I propose the etruscans as Allies. I know, some of you will call me philturrhenos, lover of etruscans. But hear me! They already started fighting with the pirates, they will grant us triremes, superior ships in the fighting and they will give us a sum of money, which is needed for this expensive mission. The Enetoi will bring more men, yes, but they are traders not warriors and that many ship will makes our fleet easier to trap between small island which is a great danger. Also, our xenoparakletor is more suitable dealing with hellenised people and the etruscans are the closest to our way of thinking out of these people. They already know the wisdom of Athene, under the disguise of Menrva as the call her. Let us know it too!
So please consider my plan:

[X] Artemis, Ploutos, Athene Plan

-[X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].

-[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].

-[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].

-[X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.

-[X] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].

-[X] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].

-[X] [Allies] The Northern Etruscans. Wealthy and powerful, an alliance made with the northern Etruscans will draw Eretria into their politics, with its advantages and disadvantages. The northern Etruscans can commit a small force of triremes and pay for part of the Eretrian expedition, considering their fight against piracy a service [If successful, better relations with Northern Etruscans, +40 talents, 5 allied triremes].

-[X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 6, Friendliness 4, Courage 2, Magnificence 6, Wisdom 2
 
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racnor said:
We're both for plan Iron Ram, no dispute there. I'd just prefer a fleet of 58 over a fleet of 18.


Yes, decades of iterative training, all to be lost in moments if the ship sinks to a desperate pentekontor ram that it did not see coming until too late or could not avoid because it struck some sandbar known only to the locals, sending 150 rowers and 55 of our levy to Poseidon. Consider instead that same ram colliding with a Histri Pentekontor, spoiling the ambush at the cost of 50 mediocre rowers and about 5 warriors.


Also, the Enetoi and Histri are not exactly slouches on land either for our goals. Yes, they provide only 200 warriors, but those warriors will be present for every raid. The Dalmatae can only march slowly up the coast, while our naval friends will be with us every step of the way, raiding every island.
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Or you know not ramming into us at all :V
Cetashwayo said:
At the Battle of Naupaktos only a few years after the start of the game the Athenian navy defeated a force of 77 ships with 20. Having more triremes gives no significant advantage at the tactical level; the advantage is at the strategic level, because having more ships and more rowers allows you to do more things at once. Most of Greece's "naval warfare" is incredibly rudimentary compared to the Athenian mastery of the craft, and Athens walked all over them until massive influxes of Persian gold and most of the Athenian rowing class dead at the bottom of the Aegean finally did them in. Having trained rowers is more important than simply having more ships; as Eusebios showed when he used the superior strength and ramming ability of Eretria's triremes to defeat a fleet of 50 pentekontors rapidly.
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The number of ships matters less than the quality of its mariners. Having too many ships also runs into the possibility of getting in each others way.

As to the 200 being with us every step and the 800 not, well...

@Cetashwayo
What exactly would be the plan if we got the the assistance of either one? How would we be bringing in our own armed forces for the matter?
 
"The knowledgeable Phoikon has offered up great advice on how we should proceed. Many of his arguments strike true, and I find myself wholly convinced of his aims in the Adriatic. I have sailed the Adriatic on the merchant ship of my father, and let me warn you. The northeast Adriatic with its complicated channels and hidden coves is a truly treacherous realm. One where it is especially difficult to patrol, and where Liburni pentekontors with their slight form, swift speed and local knowledge are a threat that should not be underestimated.
Thus, I am in favor of first focusing on prying loose the Liburian hold on the southern islands. It is here that we may find a number of good natural harbors for future colonies, which would then be ideally located to shield our Adriatic trade from pirates in the north-east.

On the matter of Sicily, I'm quite uncertain on how to deal with Athenian influence. Both options carry risk. To deny Athens influence on Sicily, invites them to seek out other potential areas of interest, potentially closer to us then we would like. On the other hand, for us to so openly cooperate with the Athenians will not only influence Sikeliote opinions of us. No, the whole Greek world will take note. Taking the side of Athens here does not commit us to an alliance, however it will definitely strengthen the perception of Eretria as an Athenian aligned power. Furthermore, by so openly giving them a diplomatic foothold in the region, we risk the Sikeliote League going over to them. Once that happens, the whole aim of this Congress might be made redundant. Athenian influence might be useful to counterbalance Syrakousai, but let me point out, that Athenian presence by itself allows Syrakousai to keep promoting their hegemonia, under the cover of defense against foreign powers. Personally I think, that even if we openly turn away Athenian influence here, behind close doors, they will make their deals with any poleis interested. Should Syrakousai become to threatening somebody else will open the door for Athenian involvement.

I like Phoikon's plan to target the Sicilian natives, for their demise will surely be to the benefit of the Sikeliote League. However, here I wonder about his (@Cavalier) reasoning for targeting Selinous over Gela? Wouldn't the later be more tempted by the promise of interior lands? Wouldn't a cooperation between the League and Gela be the most effective at blocking further expansion by Syrakousai? As a consequence, I have formulated these aims and present them to the Ekklesia:"
So speaks, Gegorios Alexios, aspiring ship captain.

[X] Plan Gregorios
-[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
-[x] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
-[x] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
-[x] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
-[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
-[x] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
-[x] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
-[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
Glory 5, Lawfulness 6, Friendliness 4, Courage 2, Magnificence 6, Wisdom 2
A man of much moderation, known in the past for his leadership against pirates in the Adriatic. Wealthy and kind, he has devoted much of his life to assisting the Eretrian poor rather than building great works. He is known for his preference for avoiding battle in favor of more methodical and careful tactics, but what was once assumed for cowardice has become heroism after his success in the Tarentine War.

@Cetashwayo Would approval-plan voting be an option here? I dislike normal plan voting, because it (just like first-past-the-post voting) almost always comes down to only two leading plans competing for first place. With the rest of the plans abandoned in favor of the most similar leading plan (last time that was Steel ram vs Greatest victory). In my opinion the resulting discussions are often heated and more focused on what is bad about the other plan, rather than finding compromise.
 
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Sivantic said:
Or you know not ramming into us at all :V
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Not sure what you mean by this. We could roll well and never get ambushed? Sure, but that's true for all the plans.
Sivantic said:
The number of ships matters less than the quality of its mariners. Having too many ships also runs into the possibility of getting in each others way.
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Yes, we know we can crush them in open combat with all of our triremes. We know that this is not how they will deal with us; that they will seek out scenarios where that skill does not matter.
Sivantic said:
As to the 200 being with us every step and the 800 not, well...
@Cetashwayo
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I certainly don't see anything stopping the enetoi from putting warriors on their ships, and we already know that the dalmatae will attack over land.
[] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
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[X] Plan Phokion

"Phokion speaks sense. It is best to rely on the allies we know and can call our friends, especially as they would bring to the fray exactly that which we need to all but guarantee victory. Mighty warriors the Dalmatae might be, but equally mighty might be the trouble they could cause for us if after taking the land of the pirates they decide they want more - and we have no bond of friendship with them to prevent conflict.

In addition, it also ought to be said that the army of the city must be strengthened."

- Karenos the Hoplite, who remains concerned by the Eretrian phalanx's poor performance at Taras.
 
[X] Plan Theopilos

-[X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
-[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
-[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].

-[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
-[X] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
-[X] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].

-[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
-[X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)

"My fellow citizens! Many times before now, have the men of Eretria gathered here to make those decisions which would make the world tremble, and if the gods are kind, we will continue to do so far into an unknowably distant future! But few times have we been presented with so grand of a decision that it is hard to see how it is but one single decision. We have restored our honor in the eyes of the gods, and they have placed before us a grand opportunity, one to reshape the very face of our world, not just on this day, but for all the days to come!

"It is in Sicily that we see the very heart of this, for we see but two true choices there -- for the first, we might strive to see our fellow Hellenes kept low, unable to contest our might for another generation by spending their blood against others, whether Sikels or Phoenicians, and for the second, we might instead lend those men friendly to us the means by which they can stand together.

"So it is in our choice for the Adriatic! We might go forth into those wild lands and carve a bloody swath through them, as though the very hounds of Ares had been let loose into the world, savaging all before us. Our colonies might spend their lives hewing down barbaroi by the endless score, and win themselves glories even in death. Yet this would see Eretria never knowing peace if these colonies were made equals within the Epulian League, for each one would find itself beset by the barbaroi in their own times, and thus we would either find ourselves the bear fighting the hounds, mighty enough to crush each on their own, but exhausted by swatting at them. Much as we have learned is possible, in our war against Taras!

"But that is not the only way which we might choose for the Adriatic. We might also choose the path of patience and restraint, to best marshal our strength and enrich ourselves and our children yet to come. For have we, Eretria, not shown that even the barbaroi might be a source of strength? Even now, the Peuketii and the Messapii, though not equals to the might of our arms, bring their own rough skills to our cause.

"It is the very heart of all Hellenes to strive against one another, to prove our worth in whatever form it might take, but most especially in the glories of war -- glories which none can deny! But so to is there glory in competing against your fellows in the phalanx, rather than turning your spear upon them! So to is there glory to be had in that contest between cities within our league, against whatever foes are foolish enough to stand against us!

"This is that choice which is upon us, my friends! It is the choice between seeking glory in cutting down the man before you, or seeking the glory in standing beside that man and proving that he was right to stand beside you, rather than against you. It is the choice between the glory of domination over others, and the glory of greater achievements made together.

"Ever is it Eretria Eshkata who goes the furthest, who shows the world what might yet be achieved, and I say that now is the time when we might set an example for all those men of the future to look toward, for that which might be achieved by a single city. An example of that which is best of the Hellenes, that though we strive, we do so most magnificently with one another.

"To this end, we ought to keep the Athenians present at the council, so that the calls for closer ties among the Sicilians would have more weight, that they might better stand together than bow beneath a tyrant from within or without.

"And as well, we should see to it that our colonies are treated as a man might treat his sons, and ensure that he is equal before his brothers and cousins, and that his lands are not beset by unending raids from his neighbors. To accomplish this, we must be careful and considerate of the rash tempers of those wild and prideful men among the Dalmatae, and prove to them our wisdom and strength in such a way as to not leave them stewing for vengeance to be taken when we are most distracted. Instead, we should look to cultivate allies among the barbaroi for our colonies, to serve them as the Peuketii and Messapii serve their father city.

"So says Theopilos the Younger."

(I almost named this Plan "Paradeigma Agathos", but was worried it'd feel too unwieldy.)
Adhoc vote count started by Godwinson on Jun 13, 2019 at 5:42 AM, finished with 87 posts and 21 votes.
  • [X] Plan Phokion
    [X] Plan Phobos
    [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [X] [League] Create a separate ring of the Epulian League with naval and trade obligations [New district of Epulian League with stronger Eretrian control].
    [X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    [X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to chase Carthage from the Island! Carthage, with the claims of its mysterious gold and its wide-ranging trade empire, is the greatest threat to Sicily. Better to strike now when Carthage is distracted, and more cynically, to spend a generation's lives against another power [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will come into conflict with the Carthaginians].
    [X] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [X] [League] Create a separate ring of the Epulian League with naval and trade obligations [New district of Epulian League with stronger Eretrian control].
    [x] Plan Adriatic Focus
    [x] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [x] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    [X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    [x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [x] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    [X] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
    -[X] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
    -[X] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
    [X] Artemis, Ploutos, Athene Plan
    [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [x] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    [X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    [x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [x] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    [X] [Allies] The Northern Etruscans. Wealthy and powerful, an alliance made with the northern Etruscans will draw Eretria into their politics, with its advantages and disadvantages. The northern Etruscans can commit a small force of triremes and pay for part of the Eretrian expedition, considering their fight against piracy a service [If successful, better relations with Northern Etruscans, +40 talents, 5 allied triremes].
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Gregorios
    -[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[x] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    -[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[x] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    -[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Theopilos
    [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [x] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    [X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    [x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [x] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    [X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Dareios
Click to expand...

Adhoc vote count started by Godwinson on Jun 13, 2019 at 8:03 AM, finished with 92 posts and 23 votes.
  • [X] Plan Phokion
    [X] Plan Phobos
    [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [X] [League] Create a separate ring of the Epulian League with naval and trade obligations [New district of Epulian League with stronger Eretrian control].
    [X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    [X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to chase Carthage from the Island! Carthage, with the claims of its mysterious gold and its wide-ranging trade empire, is the greatest threat to Sicily. Better to strike now when Carthage is distracted, and more cynically, to spend a generation's lives against another power [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will come into conflict with the Carthaginians].
    [X] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [X] [League] Create a separate ring of the Epulian League with naval and trade obligations [New district of Epulian League with stronger Eretrian control].
    [x] Plan Adriatic Focus
    [x] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [x] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    [X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    [x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [x] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    [X] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
    -[X] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
    -[X] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
    [X] Artemis, Ploutos, Athene Plan
    [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [x] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    [X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    [x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [x] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    [X] [Allies] The Northern Etruscans. Wealthy and powerful, an alliance made with the northern Etruscans will draw Eretria into their politics, with its advantages and disadvantages. The northern Etruscans can commit a small force of triremes and pay for part of the Eretrian expedition, considering their fight against piracy a service [If successful, better relations with Northern Etruscans, +40 talents, 5 allied triremes].
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Gregorios
    -[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[x] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    -[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[x] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    -[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Theopilos
    -[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Dareios
    [X] Plan Gregorios
    -[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[x] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    -[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[x] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    -[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
Click to expand...

Adhoc vote count started by Godwinson on Jun 13, 2019 at 8:04 AM, finished with 92 posts and 23 votes.
  • [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [X] [League] Create a separate ring of the Epulian League with naval and trade obligations [New district of Epulian League with stronger Eretrian control].
    [X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    [x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [x] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    [X] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Phokion
    [X] Plan Phobos
    [x] Plan Adriatic Focus
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
    -[X] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
    [X] Plan Gregorios
    -[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[x] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    -[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[x] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    -[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Theopilos
    -[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Dareios
    [x] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    [x] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    [X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to chase Carthage from the Island! Carthage, with the claims of its mysterious gold and its wide-ranging trade empire, is the greatest threat to Sicily. Better to strike now when Carthage is distracted, and more cynically, to spend a generation's lives against another power [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will come into conflict with the Carthaginians].
    [X] [Allies] The Northern Etruscans. Wealthy and powerful, an alliance made with the northern Etruscans will draw Eretria into their politics, with its advantages and disadvantages. The northern Etruscans can commit a small force of triremes and pay for part of the Eretrian expedition, considering their fight against piracy a service [If successful, better relations with Northern Etruscans, +40 talents, 5 allied triremes].
    [X] Artemis, Ploutos, Athene Plan
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
Click to expand...

Adhoc vote count started by Godwinson on Jun 13, 2019 at 8:04 AM, finished with 92 posts and 23 votes.
  • [X] Plan Phokion
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Phobos
    [X] [League] Create a separate ring of the Epulian League with naval and trade obligations [New district of Epulian League with stronger Eretrian control].
    [X] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    [X] Plan Gregorios
    -[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[x] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    -[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[x] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    -[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [x] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    [x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [x] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
    -[X] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
    [X] [Allies] The Northern Etruscans. Wealthy and powerful, an alliance made with the northern Etruscans will draw Eretria into their politics, with its advantages and disadvantages. The northern Etruscans can commit a small force of triremes and pay for part of the Eretrian expedition, considering their fight against piracy a service [If successful, better relations with Northern Etruscans, +40 talents, 5 allied triremes].
    [X] Plan Dareios
    [X] Plan Theopilos
    -[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [x] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    [X] Artemis, Ploutos, Athene Plan
    [x] Plan Adriatic Focus
    [X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to chase Carthage from the Island! Carthage, with the claims of its mysterious gold and its wide-ranging trade empire, is the greatest threat to Sicily. Better to strike now when Carthage is distracted, and more cynically, to spend a generation's lives against another power [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will come into conflict with the Carthaginians].
    [X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
Click to expand...

Adhoc vote count started by Godwinson on Jun 13, 2019 at 8:05 AM, finished with 92 posts and 23 votes.
  • [X] Plan Phokion
    [X] Plan Phobos
    [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [X] [League] Create a separate ring of the Epulian League with naval and trade obligations [New district of Epulian League with stronger Eretrian control].
    [X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    [X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to chase Carthage from the Island! Carthage, with the claims of its mysterious gold and its wide-ranging trade empire, is the greatest threat to Sicily. Better to strike now when Carthage is distracted, and more cynically, to spend a generation's lives against another power [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will come into conflict with the Carthaginians].
    [X] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [X] [League] Create a separate ring of the Epulian League with naval and trade obligations [New district of Epulian League with stronger Eretrian control].
    [x] Plan Adriatic Focus
    [x] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [x] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    [X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    [x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [x] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    [X] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
    -[X] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
    -[X] [Selection] Open it up to any citizen or Metic willing to make the trip to the colonies and fund their voyage [-2 talent upkeep per turn, faster and uncontrolled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[X] [Diplomacy] Selinous. Selinous has been a traditionally neutral member of the Sicilian Heptarchy due to its trading interests in the west, concern about the Elymians, and its geographical distance from the major regions of Sicilian conflict. We must try and sway them away from their weak support of Syrakousai towards their traditional neutrality [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[X] [Strategos] Xanthos Irenaeos (Demos Exoria, The Iron Ram)
    [X] Artemis, Ploutos, Athene Plan
    [X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    [X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    [x] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    [X] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    [x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    [x] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    [X] [Allies] The Northern Etruscans. Wealthy and powerful, an alliance made with the northern Etruscans will draw Eretria into their politics, with its advantages and disadvantages. The northern Etruscans can commit a small force of triremes and pay for part of the Eretrian expedition, considering their fight against piracy a service [If successful, better relations with Northern Etruscans, +40 talents, 5 allied triremes].
    [X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Gregorios
    -[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[x] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    -[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[x] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    -[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Theopilos
    -[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
    -[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] A Sicily for Sicilians is a Peaceful Sicily! What is needed is a revolution in diplomacy and an improvement in communication. Let the cities exchange diplomats, conclude sacred truces, and create a common league to keep the peace among them so that no one city should be powerful [Could delay war in Sicily indefinitely, Sicilians will pursue closer cooperation].
    -[X] [Allies] The Dalmatae. Mighty warriors, the Dalmatae are the greatest land power on the Illyrian side of the Adriatic coast. Gaining their alliance in this war may ease future tension with colonization, and will encourage them support your invasion by sea by one of their own over land [If successful, better relations with the Dalmatae, +800 allied warriors].
    -[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Plan Dareios
    [X] Plan Gregorios
    -[x] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
    -[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
    -[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].
    -[x] [Athenai] Advise them to send the Athenians away. We cannot afford Syrakousai rallying the Sicilians against Athenai, and by extension us, to force out all non-Sicilian powers from intervention in Sicily.
    -[x] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
    -[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].
    -[x] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
    -[x] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)
    [X] Sophos and Phobos
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Cetashwayo said:
Dareios the One-Named who is asked not to insult the concept of children before the assembly
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Dareios: "Bah, you know I'm right, you're just too cowardly to admit it."

[X] Plan Dareios
-[X] [Selection] Restrict selection for the colonies to lotteries for landless citizens and Metics [-1 talent upkeep per turn, slower but more controlled colonial growth].
-[X] [Colonization] Keep founding new colonies centrally controlled [Better diplomatic relations with local powers, less chance of citizen-led colonization].
-[X] [League] Better to maintain a single league with a single synedrion [maintain single district of Epulian League, happier new colonies but stronger league].

-[X] [Athenai] Work with the Athenians to sway the conference. We must avoid angering the Athenians, and their added influence and talents could counteract the controversy caused by their presence.
-[X] [Diplomacy] Gela. Gela is the symbolic and ceremonial center of Sicily and Sikeliote identity. In the past decades it has generally switched between being neutral and supporting Syrakousai. We must convince them that a balance of power is better for Sicily and Sikeliotes than one power uniting all of the rest [Success influenced by Xenoparakletor and other Sicilian choices].
-[X] [Peacekeeping] It is time to bring all Sicily to Heel! The Sicilian natives have long controlled the interior of Sicily and been steadily pushed back. Perhaps it is time for them to be finally subjugated, to prevent the Carthaginians from supporting them and Sicilians from playing them against one another [Will delay conflict for at least a decade, Sicilians will embark on campaign against the Sicels].

-[X] [Allies] The Enetoi & Histri. Merchants and fishermen, the Enetoi and Histri have a naval tradition just as the Iapodes and Liburni do, but prefer trading to piracy. The Enetoi were past friends to Eretria, and working with them will surely gain their favor as well as their light but numerous navies [If successful, better relations with the Enetoi and Histri, +200 allied warriors, +40 allied pentekontors].
-[X] [Strategos] Epiktetos Linos (Demos Drakonia, The Wooden Wall)

"I do not have much to say. While I agree with Phokion everywhere else, I feel that Gela might be a better target for Obander if he seeks to push the congress towards a campaign against the Sicels. I don't see Selinous having much interest in such a campaign. Unless Phokion thinks his plan can push both towards neutrality, Selinous with our trading connections and Athenian help and Gela by proposing the campaign against the Sicels?"
 
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Cetashwayo said:
Treasury in 352 OL: 360.8 Talents
Income: 291.1 Talents
Taxation: 178.5 Talents
Commerce: 88.8 Talents (Higher Tariff Efficiency)
League Income: 9.4 talents
Tribute: 12.4 Talents
Public Revenue: 2.0 Talents

Expenses: 294.5 Talents
Navy Upkeep: 74.8 Talents
Army Upkeep: 44.0 Talents
Construction: 117.0 (Completing Great Work)
Misc: 40.0 Talents (Festival Reform, Sicily)
Salaries & Subsidies: 20.0 Talents
Sacred Treasury Contribution: 29.1 Talents (10% into Sacred Treasury)

Sacred Treasury in 353 OL: 1475.0 Talents (+29.1 Talents per turn)
Treasury in 353 OL: 325.0 Talents
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A few mistakes made their way into the treasury tab (although I suspect the final result is correct):
#1 The total Expenses are wrong:
If you add up everything listed under expenses you get 324.9 Talents. (Or 326.9 see #3)
#2 The final budget is then "wrong":
If you add up inital Budget + Income - corrected Expenses, you arrive at 327 Talents.
#3 It seems you calculated our Expenses 2 talents higher than shown in the update:
I suspect you simply forgot to bumb Salaries & Subsidies to 22.0 Talents due to the calendar reform.

Amazing update as always!
 
I favor the Iron Ram plan. We need the waters completely cleared of pirates if we want our colonization schemes to have any measure of success.
That said, it is an exceedingly dangerous plan. Our triremes, while superior to the lighter ships used by the pirates, are liable to get ambushed and defeated in the many straits of Dalmatia. Which is why we need the help of the Histri. Their 50 light ships should be of great help scouting the straits, not to mention they surely have knowledge of those waters than we lack.
 
Concerning the Expedition:
As I see, our relation with the Enetoi fairly amicable regardless of their participation in the expedition. If we cooperate with the Etruscans, maybe we can get a new friend for us in the northern Adriatic, quite close to Ankon for example. And I am truly concerned if the small but numerous pentekontors are any help to us.

The triremes are already quite nimble if I'm correct so they will not grant us any advantage in that division. Their battle value is dubious: as they are mostly traders, if they can stand against the pirates, the problem will be smaller already. And the greater number of ship not necessary means that we can accomplish our aims. If we are lured into the shallows near the island, the greater number can be a hindrance, especially if we fight with a not well-known ally with whom our navy can't easily coordinate. A smaller detachment of warships, like the Etruscan triremes can be more useful for us.

If I understand the Wooden Wall strategy, we capture a forward base of operation, and then harass the Liburni into an open battle where we use the military might of our professional ships to gain victory. For this, we basically pillage the pillagers and try to herd them into a fleet that can be destroyed. It a sound plan: we have the ships and marines for give them hell before we can corner them in a battle they are not suited to win. But this plan needs professional fleets and the Etruscan ships are better for it.

Using the Dalmatae to press the enemy inland might be a good idea, but we not know them and if we can win them over but they can't manage to lock down and destroy a part of the pirate forces then they aren't really a helpful allies. It's too much "ifs" to count on. So our best option is the professional albeit small fighting force we can get.

The Iron Ram is too much of a gamble. If our fleet is surrounded deep in enemy territory then we will face dire consequences. Xanthos is a good commander but if we out of luck with the storming of Iadar I don't sure he can pull of win or even a great escape from there.

So I think the best way is: professional fleets, careful strategy, and decisive naval battle. And the Artemis, Ploutos, Athena plan can provide that.
 
Holy cow is the tally for this vote borked. Shouldn't plan votes all be formatted:

[Ex] Plan Name
-[Ex] [Task1] Subvote A

For the initial plan creator, then:

[Ex] Plan Name

For all following votes on the plan? As a new and fairly casual voter, this is super challenging to grapple with even though I would like to vote.
 
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