Would it be reasonable to suggest an extraordinary session around a festival where labourers would be expected to be free so that they can at least participate some amount of the time? I could see a post harvest festival having most people catch a break and be available for a short duration. Maybe it could be dedicated to reviewing the decisions taken since the last one and see if they are still approved by the people?
Or since the election of proboulos and xenopraector are some of the most important sessions, try to place them around the time where labourers are the most likely to be available in the same way?
The quadrennial review of the offices and their performance is a session typically frequented by many more citizens and is placed around the festival of unity.
However, the ekklesia has sessions 4 times a month, it can't accommodate everyone.
The quadrennial review of the offices and their performance is a session typically frequented by many more citizens and is placed around the festival of unity.
However, the ekklesia has sessions 4 times a month, it can't accommodate everyone.
Oh yeah, I never expected that to do anything about the regular sessions. Frankly I'm not sure there's the means to do so at all, except going towards a more representative than participative system, but the issues are the same in that elections favour richer people who can afford to campaign.
Good to see the most critical votes are around times where people will be there to attend though.
Well if I make that change then the xenoparakletor choices will almost all be quite respected people. They just might not have come to the players' attention before, but they will be war veterans, elder merchants, men of renown, etc- the key is just that Eretria is bigger than what the ekklesia is zooming in on at any given moment, to avoid inundating players with a massive number of names.
Or I could build a whole repository of names and big figures in each faction so they feel more interesting
Perhaps adding characters to the character roster could be an omake reward for appropriate omakes?
Otherwise known as: get the players to populate the city for you. Could also help with choosing who to trust if the characters we're voting into the offices are ones we've gotten to know through omakes already.
Im not a big fan of the idea. The elected officials in Eretria are already incredibly powerful, we even had a situation just recently where the power of the Demoi was curtailed because we, the citizens, were increasingly limited in what we could do. I'm not sure how you then have the citizens surrender even more authority to the elected officials?
Well, in-character we had a situation where Obander left Sicily to come back to Eretria to check with the Ekklesia whether it wanted to accept Alcibiades' plan, that's really too much hand-holding if we want to extend Eretria's dominion at all.
Now, if you'd like Eretria to remain small, that's fair enough.
Now, there may be a middle ground where the Ekklesia gives the xenoparakletor more autonomy but also has them take along a representative number of the Ekklesia, which would balance the in character need to minimize back and forth travel with in character desire to avoid making the office too powerful and with out of character desire to allow players to give advice to the xenoparakletor or vote on proposals of the xenoparakletor when it was really necessary.
@Cetashwayo How do you explain the presence of less prosperous or poor members in this schema? I know that we've had poor player characters earn cameos in the past. Are they just that well-liked?
Also, how much would it cost to boost the compensation for the poorest citizens so that they might attend?
Hm, have we had many whose characters have been established as being of a poorer class?
Kleon is of the psiloi class, and is likely in the Ekklesia so much because his main income is writing political propaganda plays whose only redeeming feature is their slapstick comedy... So making notable speeches in the Ekklesia is a way of advertising to his customer base.
I don't think there is any player characters who are poorer than most. Timxenos is a sculptor, I'm not sure how much sculptors made in 400 BC so I'm not sure if I'm battle he'd be a Hoplite or a Psiloi but Eretria is a city that lacks culture. So I'm assuming a lot of the wealthier citizens are going to be giving Timoxenos patronage to beautify the city, so I'm going to assume he gets enough to get by.
Well, in-character we had a situation where Obander left Sicily to come back to Eretria to check with the Ekklesia whether it wanted to accept Alcibiades' plan, that's really too much hand-holding if we want to extend Eretria's dominion at all.
Now, if you'd like Eretria to remain small, that's fair enough.
Now, there may be a middle ground where the Ekklesia gives the xenoparakletor more autonomy but also has them take along a representative number of the Ekklesia, which would balance the in character need to minimize back and forth travel with in character desire to avoid making the office too powerful and with out of character desire to allow players to give advice to the xenoparakletor or vote on proposals of the xenoparakletor when it was really necessary.
I don't accept the premise here at all, nor the comment that a preference for the current balance would require Eretria to remain small.
In my view the Xenoparakletors power, authority and the limitations on it are already well balanced and the situation in Sicily is - to me - actually an excellent example of that. Because unlike what you're suggesting Obander didn't just come back to check whether he should work with Alkibiades or not, although even that was a significant decision. He came back to check whether he should work with Alkibiades or encourage the Sikeliote League to send him away, and to seek guidance on which Polis he should focus on, and - most importantly - for the Ekklesia to decide in what direction he should attempt to direct the Sicilian factions. And that was a critically important choice, and whether he worked with Alkibiades heavily affected the other two decisions.
It's worth remembering here that Obander favoured a 'League of leagues' amongst all the factions of Sicily, something that could easily have eventually led to a unified Sicily, maybe under the friendly leadership of the Sikeliote League but also potentially under Syrakousai. Needless to say, the Ekklesia disagreed. This highlights, quite well in my opinion, that the balance we currently have is pretty good and the Xenoparakletor - already a mighty office - does not require even more power especially if that power comes at the expense of our agency.
I don't think there is any player characters who are poorer than most. Timxenos is a sculptor, I'm not sure how much sculptors made in 400 BC so I'm not sure if I'm battle he'd be a Hoplite or a Psiloi but Eretria is a city that lacks culture. So I'm assuming a lot of the wealthier citizens are going to be giving Timoxenos patronage to beautify the city, so I'm going to assume he gets enough to get by.
Timoxenos is a sculptor and so would likely be paid the wages of a skilled laborer. Despite his unfortunate status as a wage laborer which puts him in some disrepute (though less so in Eretria) it gives him enough to be in the middling class; I say middling because there is no such thing as 'middle' class here, simply those who are in the middle strata. I want to avoid using the term middle class because it's a fairly specific economic term to the emergence of the bourgeois in the 19th century and has another completely different connotation today.
Kleon is of the psiloi class, and is likely in the Ekklesia so much because his main income is writing political propaganda plays whose only redeeming feature is their slapstick comedy... So making notable speeches in the Ekklesia is a way of advertising to his customer base.
There isn't really such a thing as a 'psilloi' class, you're just not able to fund your own panoply/have chosen not to. I'm also not really sure you can just survive off being a playwright; it seems more of a side-occupation at this point, and you'd be a farmer or an urban laborer as your other job (which would be impressive given you'd probably want to be literate to be a playwright).
his highlights, quite well in my opinion, that the balance we currently have is pretty good and the Xenoparakletor - already a mighty office - does not require even more power especially if that power comes at the expense of our agency.
Way I see it anything that's a treaty-level decision is something the xenoparakletor has to bring to the ekklesia. Whether that's a literal treaty, or declaring war, or deciding the fate of the isle of Sicily, it's something that the xenoparakletor would have to bring to the ekklesia. The solution in the future is simply for the xenoparakletor to determine the bounds of his mission before he departs and usually this is already the case: The purpose of the Athenian expedition is to establish contacts and get information, and so if the Athenians presented the xenoparakletor with a treat then it would be necessary for him to come back and get ekklesia approval. But if the entire purpose of an expedition is to sign a treaty, and the treaty perfectly conforms to what the ekklesia agreed to already, then that's unnecessary to vote on. If, however, as in Taras the treaty's contents is unknown until the negotiations are complete, then that's something the xenoparakletor brings to the city.
I've always pictured Leukos as being towards the low end of hoplite status, mostly because he's enough of an ancient proto-math-geek that he tends to do the minimum necessary paying work as The Accountant, and spends the rest of his time trying to (re)invent trigonometry or something. His income is supplemented by the fact that he inherit a small farm from his father. His father rented it out to metic tenant farmers and lived in a house on the property that gradually fell down around his ears while he drank the proceeds. Leukos collects the rent and supplements his income with accountancy, since the rent isn't really enough to live on comfortably and he wouldn't have the heart to squeeze the metics who had more than a little hand in raising him until he 'graduated' by demonstrating an ability to make his own way out of a head for figures.
On the other hand, he can talk geometry with the best of the city, and philosophy fairly well (he's improved on that front, having gotten a late start). And from his work he knows a lot of people who are richer than himself.
He might get invited to a better class of social event than would be expected of someone with his wealth, because having him around is a good way to show off subtle magnanimity and generosity, while also showcasing love of scholarship and learning... And to do this without having to deal with a totally unworldly person who may insult you while going all Socratic, or a rustic who might track dirt all over your Persian rugs.
Update soon. It's going to be the entire rest of the turn with choices and then we'll move onto the next turn. Look forward to it probably tomorrow (I would like to proofread it as it's 5,000 words and contains some very important choices).
[] Let us grant this adventurer and his people sanctuary in Brention and add their strength to ours [Brention will become a mixed city, +1,200 freemen to the town, any ambition by Artahias or the Hyrians to gain control will be blocked].
Bacchiae of the Messapii
The Old Gods had abandoned the Messapii. Where once they had kept guard over their children since those long-forgotten days when they had crossed the great sea and protected this ancient people as settlements and towns were built, now they had let the land be taken away, the people trapped in warfare and serfdom, and the towns and settlements destroyed. What purpose was there to exalt anymore these ancient Gods whose names were fading into dust? A wise man could see that the Gods of the Hellenes had granted them extraordinary favor. It would be improper to worship the, Marriage Gods, Athene & Apollon, who had visited all manner of cruelty upon their Peuketii cousins. But Artemis spoke to the ancient times when the land was at peace and the forests ruled the Sallentine Peninsula, and Zeus, locally called Zis, appealed to all who heard his voice behind the claps of thunder.
And there was the God Dionysos, who came to them not a figure of debauchery and joy but one of ecstasy and release in the face of cultural death. If it was true that the world had gone mad and cursed the Messapii, then only a God of madness who embraced all willing to take part in his rituals would do for the common people left to struggle. Whereas the aristocracy presented themselves as masters of the horse and hunt, lovers of Artemis and Orion and their union in the aping of the Eretrian tradition of divine unions, to the common people was granted Dionysos, who promised them relief in stupor from their despair.
But all of this was beyond the understanding of those great and brutal lords who enserfed their people in the name of national defense, who sought only to advance their own success and ambition against their rivals in the grand contest of the Messapii nobility. So eager were they for the silver of the Eretrians, so hungry were they for the wealth they could be granted from the cattle that they pawned to the meat-poor Hellenes, so desperate were they for the recognition from their new masters who they kindly forgot had slaughtered their people and their northern cousins in the past. They were even willing to turn against their own trusted charges, the peasants to whom they claimed a sacred duty even as they ejected them from lands and raised their taxes to pay the feed for their ballooning herds of cattle.
When the slave-driver arrived from Eretria, the creature Kyros Gennadios, the Messapii were much divided among themselves. In their future appeared nothing but subjugation by one people or another. The Kretans and their Satyr already pressed a yoke upon the people of Brention, who found themselves facing a foreign mercenary band who, it was rumored, stole their wives right from their homes and dragged them screaming to their camps. To the south was the tyrant Artahias, who cloaked his repression in the language of the Hellenes, but pursued the enslavement of his people all the same. Caelia was paralyzed and frightened, its nobility cowards and fools who wished to protect their own meager wealth against the ambitions of Artahias or the rage of the ordinary farmer.
So it was on Hyria that the world of the Messapii turned, and as the Eretrian Kyros came towards the city, a call for action was heard from the madwoman of the Hyrian Hills, the greatest of Dionysos' local seers. She told the people of Hyria that Dionysos told her they should gather in the town square where Daxtus, their last true ruler, had been ambushed and killed, and that they should rise up against their masters and reap not the grain their masters so cruelly demand but the heads of the nobility, so that the Eretrian sees that the people of Hyria will stand tall. And it was to this that the people committed themselves, for they had had enough, and in their future they saw only a yawning despair.
But the truth of any uprising is that without the support of the noble classes, without the support of opportunists, it is much more liable to fail. The people are many, but they are disorganized and manipulable, and can be brought to heel by exceptional brutality and lightning actions. It was a gift of providence that there existed a group among the Hyrian nobility who still kept among themselves a measure of that pride and courage that made a man, and who sympathized with the people. Lesser nobles, not so willing to jump at the chance of kissing Eretrian feet, they also shared a common devotion to Dionysos, and joined the people on that day, participating in conspiracy against their fellows who they had once shared bread and wine with and now pursued extermination of.
This is the appearance of politics and strife among the truly desperate and the lost- those people who have seen decades of warfare, and subjugation, and decline, and now react with the viciousness of a trapped animal against all that they hate. So it was that the nobility of Hyria fled just as Gennadios approached, and were given quarter by the apoplectic Artahias, who saw this intrusion by the people as nothing less than the abrogation of his birthright to be king of all the Messapii. To be sure, he had made concessions in Brention, but it was all sly strategy and careful maneuver to ingratiate himself to the Eretrians. He remained the ruler of the Messapii cattle, and extracted from his clients massive rents they passed onto their peasantry, allowing him to build a new and fearsome cavalry.
The Black Goat of Hyria
When he arrived, the overwhelmed Gennadios attempted to quell the rage of Artahias who reacted with a temerity at the common people's coup that Gennadios had not expected, (2d10+1=9), but failed. Artahias embarked upon a siege at the beginning of summer whilst Gennadios, knowing he could not do this alone, disobeyed the Antipatrid order that had declared an end to collaboration with the Exorians and summoned Mnemnon, long-known for his ability to deal with barbaroi. By the time that the young stallion had arrived, however, a great and terrible occurrence had happened that ended any chance of a non-Eretrian resolution to the matter of the Hyrian unrest.
Artahias' cavalrymen were individually brilliant, but his captains too eager and uncoordinated, and when the people of Hyria, on the order of a nobleman called Zisos the Black Goat, formed themselves into a wall of shields, once more was born that ancient array which had broken the power of the Hellene warlords all those years ago. In the passion of battle, the people stood as one, and broke upon their spears the pride of the nobility, till at last Artahias rallied his men back, all of them shocked by the display of defiance of the commoners over the great.
But this could not be an end. It could never be an end. When Mnemnon arrived he met with both Zisoa and Artahias and saw three options ahead of this uprising. On the one hand, Zisos and the people were amenable to peace with Eretria. Grant them their autonomy from Artahias under Eretrian suzertainty and end Artahias' ambitions upon that bloody Sallentine field where spear met lance and was victorious. In compensation for this, Arthias would demand full autonomy under the treaty terms agreed to between Eretria, Taras, and Metapontion. Indeed, when Mnemnon presented Artahias with this he found it fitting, but warned that if his loyalty was rebuffed and his autonomy denied, he would attempt to seek other patrons, such as Taras or Athenai. The threat was well-taken, and any full rebuff of Artahias deemed infeasible.
An alternative potential salve would be to reverse the ekklesia's position around Brention and grant him control of the strategic port. It would anger the Satyr, but an arrangement could be made where they retained some autonomy. Artahias would gain a Hellene contingent and reign in the more foolish of their impulses. Artahias also approved of this, and was pleased that the city might be willing to reverse their decision; he promised he would treat the Kretans and the local people fairly and ensure some level of discipline among them so that they would not commit trouble under Eretria's nose.
Finally, Eretria could step aside and grant Artahias their full support. Although his first attempt had been blunted, Artahias was no fool. The Hyrian aristocracy was on his side, and even some of the commoners feared retribution from the Black Goat and the greatest followers of Dionysos for not supporting the uprising rapidly enough. If Artahias was granted Eretrian approval, he would surely win as the Hyrians would have no Eretrian legitimacy and would desert for fear of an Eretrian army visiting their city. Warning Artahias to restrain his retribution to the direct ringleaders and grant an amnesty elsewhere would also prevent it from transforming into the kind of bloodbath that Harpos inflicted on Canosa a few decades before.
It was an embarrassing way to settle the dispute after it had already erupted, but reflected the internal divisions of the Antipatrid camp. Gennadios had been sent against his will to deal with the Messapii whilst Obander was away by Antipatros Antipatrid, grandson of Antipater the elder and the faction's true leader, to punish Obander for his constant cooperation with Mnemnon. The Gongylids, junior partners in the Antipatrid coalition, were enraged at this and it was rumored they may even foment a coup against Antipatros, who they had felt inspired weak leadership and who they had wished to dethrone for a decade, restrained only by the respect all held for Obander. Now, with his term ending and his retirement arriving, there would be little to stop their fury...
Mnemnon, meanwhile, felt deeply disturbed by his part in this crisis. The entire issue with the Messapii cattle was relayed to him by an aide who spoke the local language, and when he returned to Eretria he apologized before the ekklesia for his failure to predict this action. He had not thought too much like an Eretrian, he explained in that humbly chauvinistic tone Eretrians were sometimes fond of using, and assumed that the barbaroi would behave as Eretrians and be kind to the common people. That he had been wrong had been his mistake, but the lesson to take was not to cease the cattle trade but to deal with the problem through his own proposals. If the Hyrians were allowed their freedom, then the greatest town of the Messapii would be free from tyranny, and others could follow. If Artahias suppressed them, then the problem would disappear as the source of the unrest would be crushed without undue bloodshed. And indeed, Artahias himself needed to be dealt with; either his ambitions should be granted, diverted to Brention, or else given a new meaning through his transformation into an ally.
In principle Linos supported granting the Hyrians autonomy, and Mnemnon the suppression of the Hyrians, whilst the Antipatrids were divided every which way as the absence of Obander and long-running dissension threatened the stability of their entire faction. Many feared that Obander would retire or die, and in his wake the entire faction would dissolve or be reborn as something entirely new. As the election approached, all watched eagerly this new development that reflected the collapse of the old consensus.
The matter was given to the ekklesia and its people to resolve, though the demoi also feared that the loud voices and enraged statesmen of that institution would turn their attention as much to the botching by the Antipatrids as any resolution to the issue at hand...
How should the ekklesia deal with the Hyrian crisis, where a popular coup supported by members of the nobility has left the Messapii realms in a state of internal conflict?
[] [Hyria] Grant Hyria autonomy and Artahias allyship [+5,500 freemen providing tributes and levies including heavier infantry, Artahias becomes a loyal Eretrian ally rather than vassal].
[] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[] [Hyria] Grant Artahias Brention as a bribe to allow Hyria autonomy under Eretria [+12,100 freemen including heavier nfantry, Hyria and Artahias become full vassals, the Kretans are outraged and may cause trouble].
The Path of Pain
The Hyrian crisis reflected the failure of Eretria to fully communicate with its vassals, but the Messapii were also very poorly connected to the Eretrians. By comparison, the Peuketii were much closer, and had long-standing trade relations. Although discussions were had in the aftermath of Hyria and before Obander's return about expanding the office of Xenoparakletor or forcing the Messapii to grant more information, there was little of this in discussion to the Peuketii for they were simply assumed to be loyal. When Mnemnon and Gennadios departed to Gorgos, they spoke to him on these matters and Gorgos explained that their concerns were warranted but that he sought to placate the Peuketii people with land reform; he simply wished to avoid speaking about it because portions of the nobility were terrified of the prospect.
In truth, he explained, his greatest fear was not his people but the Dauni, who had been courting the nobility in Canosa for some time and may be plotting against Eretria and the Peuketii. He described one scenario where a general revolt of the Iapyges is followed by Ausculos crossing the Aufidos and attacking Eretria. In this case, though Eretria may be victorious, the Dauni would visit such damage on Eretria and its tributaries that it would leave Epulia vulnerable to other threats. He admitted he had failed to speak to Eretria on this matter simply because he felt Eretrian attention was elsewhere, and, as he reminded them, the ruins of the Peuketii could be seen in the Epulian countryside. Though he felt no ill-will to Eretria, and hated the Lucani more, his countrymen did not agree. If he was too close to Eretria, or communicated too much, he was put at a deep disadvantage. Actions such as when he wrestled with Mnemnon had already humiliated him so much that he faced challengers to his legitimacy.
Mnemnon apologized for this and Gorgos said, extremely, seriously, that if they rematched Gorgos would win this time. Mnemnon conceded the point diplomatically, more than a bit baffled that the king was using this opportunity to gain such a one-up, only to hear the king's laugh as he explained that the concession was well-appreciated and something he proclaim to the nobility, restoring his honor in the eyes of those tribesmen who saw his failure as an example of his inferiority. This man was indeed Harpos' descendant, crafty and careful, understanding of the difficulties involved in politics, independent of Eretria and yet loyal to the city's interests. Mnemnon and Gennadios left comfortable and pleased, only to realize that they had been utterly unable to address any issue relating to the cattle trade during their time there.
Crafty, indeed.
Before they could return, however, or work out the issue in the ekklesia, the Dauni rudely interrupted. A delegate from them rode across the Aufidos, nearly getting killed by young frontier noblemen who were all too eager to hunt any Dauni they could find out of the sheer boredom of their country life. He carried with him a box he wished to present to Eretria and which could not be opened until he arrived. He was treated by Obander, who by this point had arrived back, weary from his travels and increasingly irritated at the failures of his demos. He had no time to move on this impulse, though, for when he opened the box he was met with the heads of six nobles, three from Salapia and three from Herdonia, slaughtered at a feast they thought was their reconciliation with the king.
The delegate explained that the traitors had been rooted out. Their lands would be redistributed to the loyal people of Salapia and Herdonia, as the king Ausculos looked after his subjects. He then revealed himself as the king's son, Teutan. Teutan, heir to the Dauni, then gave Obander two choices ahead of him and the Eretrian people. The king of the Dauni loved his people and he wished for peace. Those who disturbed the peace, such as these men of Herdonia and Salapia, would have the worst punishments visited upon them. But he had no ill-will for Eretria. If Eretria was willing, he would offer them the path of peace. In the path of peace, Eretria and the Dauni would end their hostilities, cease raiding, and open trade to one another. The Dauni would not plot against the Eretrians or their tributaries, allow Peuketii to cross the Aufidos, and even allow Eretrians to come to Auscula with Dauni approval. They would cease pursuing the destruction of the other, and the Eretrians would stop proposing to subjugate the Dauni at every election.
Or, he suggested, there was the path of pain. In the path of pain, Eretria and the Dauni would continue down their current path. In time, Eretria might win. But it would win with the blood of a generation. Every Dauni fortress, built against the Samnites, can be as easily turned against Eretria. The entire swampy center of Daunia can be transformed into a wasteland bereft of food or feed, with Eretria forced to besiege mighty walls at the end of long supply lines. Riders will infilitrate across the Aufidos, turning Peuketii to their side and releasing serfs, setting fire to Eretria's treasured fields, abducting noblewomen, slaughtering the armies of its allies. In time Eretria would win, but it will see the victory turn to ash in its mouth as the Dauni open their gates to the Samnites and welcome in the vanguard of Eretria's doom.
He did not recommend this path.
When he departed and Obander transmitted his words to the ekklesia, the Exorians were apopleptic. They demanded a war in the next year, the destruction of Auscula, and the end of the Dauni as an independent kingdom. How could they be allowed to insult Eretria like this? How could King Ausculos admit to plotting against Eretria and seeking its demise and think himself safe? They would make sure he was not safe. No matter the walls, no matter the obstacles, Eretrian cavalry would scour their lands and break the will of their people. Nothing would be left to make them think that they could have a chance to resist; the whole land would fill once more with trees for so many of their fields would be abandoned. Were they just to forget the sacrifices of Eustarchus, the deaths of Eretrians against these foul barbaroi? Now that they had two of the three Iapygian peoples under their grip, would they abandon their destiny to control the third out of misplaced cowardice?
Others were more circumspect. Obander recommended that they take the path of peace over the shouts and heckling of his own side. Linos was similarly in agreement, and hoped that in the future Eretria might even gain access to the salt fields of Salapia without even making war. there was widespread skepticism on all sides, however. Could the Dauni really be trusted? Would they not simply seek a peace to plot even more against Eretria? What guarantee was there that they could be at peace? And yet they had been at peace- one way or another- for decades, some argued. The back and forth was dramatic. Was it trason, or pragmatism?
The matter was left to the ekklesia, such as it was. Even if was determined decisively in favor of one side or another, it would surely not be a decision taken without gritted teeth.
Should Eretria accept a peace with the Dauni and put aside, at least for the foreseeable future, its ambitions to conquer and subjugate them?
[] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
Xenoparakletor's Report: The Expedition to Athenai
Citizens of Eretria, I come to you in equal terms humbled and afraid, in awe and in terror. I, Obander Eupraxis, come to you from Athenai with the news of my expedition. I came to the city lost, and left understanding far too much.
My journey was troubled by stormy weather, and we stopped at the occupied isle of Kithera, south of Lakonia, before Piraeus. Here, the Athenians have established a small fortress, guarding the approaches from the west, and I am told, the route for Eretrian grain. I fear that we are much more valued than we thought, for as I would discover, the Athenians have paid much more attention to our city than we had all assumed...
When I landed at Piraeus, tidings of my arrival soon spread. I was met with a poxy and plague-scarred crowd, the poor and the destitute, many of whom suffered still the effects of the plague that had claimed the lives of the titan Perikles and his youngest son. They spoke to me in terms of legends and rumors of Eretria- that we wore feathers and Illyrian caps, that our grain grew as tall as men, that our ships carried an entire polis across the waves to safety, that our aristocrats gave all to their people and asked for nothing in return. I sought to first dissuade these rumors, but was unable to, for the people carried me away towards the long walls, citing as their motivation the life-giving grain we provided to the city so easily...
It was apparent from my first discussions with the men of the boule and the wisest citizens that the appearance of Eretria was one of an exotic and peculiar city, where all common men shared from the bounty of the land and no man went hungry. That such rumors were not true did not prevent their use in the comedies of the city of Athenai, the glory and ability of whom I cannot see surpassed by even our greatest playwrights. I met with one such genius among them, the tragedian Euripedes, who showed interest in the description I gave of fair Alexis' Plataians, and asked me to dispatch a scroll with the next shipment of grain...
It is difficult for we Eretrians understand the scale of Athenai. Everything is greater there- the statues, the temples, the land within the walls, and the public works. Only the people themselves are smaller, some malnourished and hungry, others scarred or crippled by the blight of disease. The harbor Piraeus has room for three-hundred triremes, and Athenai could still fill the rows of every single one. The city itself is extraordinarily wealthy, and upon viewing the Parthenon and its seven-hundred talent ivory and gold statue of holy Athene, I was left wondering whether the goddess of wartime strategy would think it wise to have spent such an expense on her in the period before the great war erupted...
The Athenian Agora is a place for discussion as well as commerce- the conversations of life and philosophy conducted on the Eretrian assembly field are the preserve of the agora in Athenai. It was there that I met a man by the man of Sokrates, who was given to much fanfare among his students for his ability in philosophy and wordcraft. However, I came away utterly unimpressed, as there seemed not an ounce of respect for public duty in this man, and indeed he expressed doubt at the very ideal of unity to which we Eretrians owe our lives! I would rather never eat a fig so long as I live than be forced to discourse with him again...
The Athenian aristocracy is among the oldest of all in Hellas, and the greatest of them, the Alcmaeonids, trace descent from wise Nestor of Achaean fame. They have little time for those lower than them, and disdain democracy utterly, deriding those of their number such as Perikles or his son Paralos who have sought to gain the favor of people rather than looking down upon them. I found little of use in their parties and symposia, for they were interested in me mostly as an object of amusement than a respected official, and when I explained to them my modest wealth and favored fig tree, they laughed and remarked they had whole orchards. I am not very fond of them, and no Eretrian should be, for in Eretria the purpose of our aristocracy is to give everything for the people and the polis, not to ignore their duties...
The Athenian political situation is ever-changing. I am told that now Alkibiades and Erasmos Dion are in the ascendent, both strategoi and who have the favour of the people. They seek warfare with Laikadaimon, and have attracted many hot-headed youths to their side. Young Paralos son of Perikles is opposed to them, but still seeks to find footing in his oratory- I have given him advice on the matter. It is Nikias the Peacemaker who most impresses me, however. I was struck by the realism in his words, and how he felt that even in the event of victory over Laikadaimon, Athenai would be cursed to fight the rest of Hellas 'til they simply ran out of the men to man their fleets and guard their flanks in battle. I can only hope he is able to regain the support of the ekklesia and pursue negotiations with the Spartans, for their peace shall surely fall through with Alkibiades' meddling...
Whereas the Eretrian is given to austerity, the Athenian is given to enjoyment of life and culture, though within moderation. Whereas the Eretrian treasures unity of the polis, the Athenian is constantly divided between factions, cults, clubs, and associations, concentrated on a wider sphere of brotherhood than the public life. Whereas the Eretrian aristocracy would give anything for the people, the Athenian aristocracy seems to relish the prospect of tyranny. Whereas the Eretrian exalts the family as a representation of the unity of the city, the Athenian neglects the family to protect the unity of the city, fearing clans. They keep their women cloistered, treasured but locked away, whereas the Eretrian wife is to be seen in public for she is a representative of civic virtue and the achievements of motherhood...no ornament but half the marriage upon which our city was founded. The Athenian merchant class is growing stronger by the day, Piraeus more the center of trade not just of the Aegean but half the Mediterranean. I fear that soon all winds shall blow towards Athenai, and we shall be pulled into their orbit...
I leave the city with a treaty offered to me by cunning Alkibiades, who seeks to press Eretria on its commitment to Athenai. The Athenians, hungry and dependent on the foreign grain which sustains their mighty city, find the Eretrian route safer and more attractive for their purposes than that of the Bosporos. This is why they have sought to secure Kerkyra and Kithera- for the security of our grain shipments to their port. Now they wish for a proclamation of friendship, and an opening to expand our trade to them. They granted me a proxenos, who shall reside in Piraeus near the long walls and transmit Eretrian will to Athenai. I will leave the debate over the treaty to the ekklesia, but I must say that I fear the consequences of tying our destiny so closely to Athenai, and the Tarentines will surely object to such an oblique declaration of loyalty...
I finish my report to the ekklesia with this: That Athenai is an extraordinary place, something that we have not seen in all the days of the Hellenes. For all our lives we have lived in towns and villages, but here there has arrived in our tumultuous age a true and vast city, comparable to the mythical splendor of the east or wealthy Carthage. And it is precisely because of that I both admire and fear this city, and its people, for they have a terrific energy among them that has convinced them they can fight all Hellas, that nothing can stand in their way, and that they are first among all the peoples of the world.
And I fear that they may well be right, that proclamations of hybris have failed to grasp the enormity of this polis' desire and wealth. Even marred by plague and loss, it remains undefeated in war by Laikadaimon and its allies.
Indeed, even without a final victory against the Spartans, even with the manpower the city has lost to plague and war, even with the loss of Amphipolis and trouble with the Mede...the unchecked passions of Athenai still threaten to overflow and engulf the world. We can only hope that something will be done to check it.
The Value of Friendship
Debate over the Athenian offer was hampered by the general feeling of dissension and division among the demoi when Obander had returned. So much had to be dealt with these past few months; the Hyrian crisis, the Dauni offer, the fact that nothing had been gained from the Peuketii during the expedition there. Now what came to a head was not the expressions of unity and an avoidance of strife but the laying bare of material interests. The Antipatrids had much to gain from an increase in the grain trade, as did the Drakonids. Linos and Obander both found themselves disagreeing with their political patrons and publicly dissenting from their line, further suggesting a decline in the old political order. The Exorians, too, were against it as they feared a movement away from an isolationist stance in the great war between Athenai and Laikadaimon, even if for the moment the war had been on pause.
A great deal was at stake. On the one hand, the Athenian offer of friendship, if rebuffed, could frustrate them and make a fickle people suspicious. On the other hand, agreeing would surely embarrass the Tarentine peace faction, as this went beyond mere support of a side into the stating of allegiance. Further, it would tie Eretria to Athenian strategic interests, meaning greater attention paid by Athenai of the west. It was an unfortunate treaty presented to the Athenian ekklesia by Alkibiades as a purposefully innocent-sounding document, whilst he alone remained aware of the wider implications, and that it would be challening for Eretria to accept while easy for Athenai to present. Even among those inclined to accept it, they saw it as a major slight by Alkibiades, who was clearly attempting to toy with the Eretrians and force them to take a position on a war where they had made their neutrality clear.
It was finally noted by some of the city's most pragmatic merchants that Eretria's neutrality had always been premised on Athenian benevolence. Athenai's request was not unreasonable and would allow a greater flow of silver into the city, which Eretria was always in desperate need of to make up for its natural deficit of the precious metal which protected the value of its currency. The city's revenues would surely balloon from the tariffs on grain, and from that would flow greater funding for a navy to protect the city from any further Athenian designs. That, they argued, and nothing else, would be the true deterrent for Athenai, if it came to a situation where the Athenians sought ambitions in the west against Eretrian interests.
The matter was left to the ekklesia to decide.
Should Eretria accept an Athenian treaty declaring the two poleis eternal friends and trading partners?
[] [Athenai] Accept the Athenian treaty [Athenai will be grateful, Taras will be disturbed, Eretrian grain trade will grow faster in the future].
[] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
When voting, please copy out vote text in its entirety in order to preserve the coherency of the vote. That includes the word with the vote brackets. No plan votes.
This will be the last set of votes for this turn. Next turn we are returning to a model of a post-per-turn.
[X] [Hyria] Grant Hyria autonomy and Artahias allyship [+5,500 freemen providing tributes and levies including heavier infantry, Artahias becomes a loyal Eretrian ally rather than vassal].
[] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[X] [Athenai] Accept the Athenian treaty [Athenai will be grateful, Taras will be disturbed, Eretrian grain trade will grow faster in the future].
Dareios: "Athens is a shining light in a dark world, just as Eretria is. Imagine what we could do if we worked together!"
Well, alright.
Honestly? Uprisings of peasants happen, and we can have use for a king who owes his entire legitimacy to us.
Alternatively, just give him Brention, Kretans are bloody squatters. We mostly housed them to deny them to others, now that they have settled they probably aren't going to just up and run away, so they'll manage.
Dauni...seeing how insanely problematic we are going with just Messapii and Peuketii, and how we are going to be founding colony in Venice and handling locals in Ankon and Illyrian colony - definitely peace. We do not have actions to fight them in foreseeable future, not with how impossibly frail our hold over existing vassals is.
Athens...fuck Alkibiades. That is all.
And we are so not getting dragged into Second Peloponessian War.
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
Damn Dauni. They've been a threat from the beginning, but because we've flaffed around we've now lost those among them who could have been allies. I can't see any way in which this ridiculous offer of peace could hold, and if we accept it there will always be a blade at our back. They'd turn on us the instant it became profitable.
Worse still, which they - in my view - would almost certainly break their word in the future, we as civilized people would be bound to ours. It's simply not worth closing off the possibility of war even if others disagree with me and don't opt to do it now.
Fortunately, we have a window of time here where we can in fact go to war with them as the other threats around us have mostly been removed. We have peace with Taras, Syrakousai is penned in, Artahias can - with time - deal with the revolt in Hyria, and most importantly the Lucani and Samnites have just finished a war with Kymai and settled Campania. This leaves us free to finally, finally deal with the Dauni and properly secure our home front so that we can actually move freely.
As for Hyria, the situations a clusterfuck yes. But losing the Messapii as a vassal would be a massive long term loss and the Kretans causing trouble is something we absolutely don't want, and frankly, it's better to have a single vassal than Hyria and the rest of the Messapii separately. As Herodion said so long ago, when it comes to vassals often fewer is better.
In case of Athenai I'm leaning toward refusing the offer in favour of pace in Italy, as for grain sale, well they are digging their own grave, let Alkibiades play his gamble only to see it fail and Athens coming back to us on their knees.
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
The situation in Hyria is highly regrettable. We should try to address the problems our vassals face in the future. And damn those kretan dogs! We give them hospitality and they abuse it and spit on our freinds! To Hades with them!
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
I do not think the Dauni can be trusted. But if we approach in good faith I do believe that we can avoid another great tribe standing at our borders Spears in hand. If we crush the Dauni we will simply have more likely hostile neighbors willing to plunge Spears in our throats.
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
Our relationship with Taras has a long history of bumps and bruises. We have the opportunity to redeem the relationship now that the older generation is in passing. There is no bad blood between us and Athens. We may trade if they wish, and we can be friends if they wish, but we will not be a part of their wars and we will not ruin our neighbors and their state of mind. Our world is in greater Greece, not in the Homeland of our forefathers. And we may open our hand to them so long as there is no dagger in the other, or so our sons may not die for the sake of distant noblemen in a war with no gain or honor.
[X] [Hyria] Grant Hyria autonomy and Artahias allyship [+5,500 freemen providing tributes and levies including heavier infantry, Artahias becomes a loyal Eretrian ally rather than vassal].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
I will never accept a treaty crafted by the hand of the snake Alkibiades even if it means swimming through the River Styx than saving my own life.
Worse still, which they - in my view - would almost certainly break their word in the future, we as civilized people would be bound to ours. It's simply not worth closing off the possibility of war even if others disagree with me and don't opt to do it now.
Athenai slights our honor and seeks to bend us against our word. We swore before the gods and before Taras that we would not seek patronage amongst Hellas. Now they come to us with this very reasonable sounding proposal? One that seeks to break our word?
They are not Kerkyra and we are not weak. Not anymore. Our word is sacred and we cleave to our oaths as is proper amongst all who honor the gods.
We would refuse this treaty even if it means our weakening.
Well this is quite the mess. For now my current inclination is to let Hyria get fucked, make overtures towards the Dauni and refuse the Athenian treaty. We just have so many fires going on at the moment that we can't really afford to start another conflict with the Daunii. And even if we win having to manage their lands would be a nightmare. The Peuketti and Messapii already gve us enough trouble and the Dauni would both hate us even more and have a roughly as big as the other Iapyges combined.
Yeah, Dauni are...wise to pick this moment, when everything is on fire, to do this.
Even with them out of our hair for a couple of turns at least, we will likely lack actions to do all we want to.
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
In a bad mood, so I just want everyone to die and suffer for their trouble-making.
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
Perhaps when we're forced into the situation. But if we accept peace here I don't see a situation where we would have the opportunity to vote proactively to break this peace.
Dauni...seeing how insanely problematic we are going with just Messapii and Peuketii, and how we are going to be founding colony in Venice and handling locals in Ankon and Illyrian colony - definitely peace. We do not have actions to fight them in foreseeable future, not with how impossibly frail our hold over existing vassals is.
It's not anywhere near that bad. The situation with the Peuketii isn't at the stage where it will require violence to settle and the Messapii situation can be handled by Artahias alone, he doesn't need our troops for that. As for the colonies, they only take time not anywhere near the effort a war requires and they don't all have to be done in a single electoral cycle.
In fact even if we choose the path of pain it doesn't commit us to going to war with the Dauni now, it just means we can. But even if we did, we could still easily handle the situation in Ancon as well as it's just a diplomatic situation.
I do not think the Dauni can be trusted. But if we approach in good faith I do believe that we can avoid another great tribe standing at our borders Spears in hand. If we crush the Dauni we will simply have more likely hostile neighbors willing to plunge Spears in our throats.
If we properly subjugate the Dauni we have a vassal buffer between us and a dangerous tribe whereas if we accept peace they can get rich off our trade and betray us at any time.
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[X] [Athenai] Accept the Athenian treaty [Athenai will be grateful, Taras will be disturbed, Eretrian grain trade will grow faster in the future].
