From my perspective, the ENM stuff is Arkeus' side of the argument. I remember getting worn out by it and hoping that miraculously a stealth art would just drop onto our laps. Pretty much the logic behind it is we waste more turn not training stealth because we do not want to pick up the stealth art. It not only trains Stealth but Fade as well, the one skill we do not have an art for, which is part of what Arkeus was pushing for. Though I do feel that he exaggerates when he says that stealth is no longer viable since we decided to not train for stealth this turn, but eh, he is one of the people doing the math so heck if I know. I do admit that its utility is very strong, and a lot of why I was against it was the themes of forgetting, but I got really worn down hearing their arguments (and partly salt) that I decided to play ball with them. I just really hope the Cai/Moon arts are stealth, otherwise I'd feel obligated to vote with them.
I want stealth, but ENM is thematically so toxic I do not want whatever advanced skill we'd get out of training stealth under its umbrella, and am willing to delay for several turns until we have an alternative.
The problem with this thinking is that, if we'd decided to train ENM, we'd be training SCS at the same time.
SCS, which we've based our stealth on since we were in Yellow.
SCS, which we've already gained one Advanced Skill from.
SCS, an Art so good that it, by itself, has had Ducal Scions sit up and take notice. To the point that Sun Liling didn't consider it to be punching down while we were Yellow/Silver and she was Green/Bronze.
It would not be thematically appropriate for ENM to provide an advanced Stealth skill, not when we're training SCS at the same time and are already on the verge of a breakthrough, requiring one more push - something we should be getting in the near future, given the further training this month for the Scout Forces and the drills next month.
Now, I can absolutely understand being worried about ENM providing an advanced Fade skill. That is much farther away, and we'd be training ENM for most, if not all, of that time.
There is at least one person who voted for the 'Spend more time with family' option with the opinion that it would reduce the amount of time available for training new Arts, and believed that that would translate to learning fewer Archive arts - which, taken in the context of available Archive Arts, means no stealth Arts from the first floor of the Archive.
I am not really sure I understand why someone would be worried about Fade. It's a skill. A tool in the system that everyone uses. It's a stat. It's like saying "I am worried about leveling up Manipulation because it makes you a manipulative person." It doesn't. Not on it's own. It's a tool you use, as is Fade. Having a high Fade stat doesn't mean people will randomly start to forget Ling Qi or remember her less vividly.
Neither would ENM do something like that. ENM *can* do something like that, when Ling Qi deploys it consciously. Passing the guards at the gate, and having them forgot her face, for example. It won't suddenly lead to Biyu having trouble remember who Ling Qi is. It won't mean the audience at some party will remember less of Ling Qi.
ENM, and advanced Fade skills keying off of it, are not *dangerous*. They are tools to be used, or not used. It's possible that someone thinks those tools will never be useful or should never be used. I disagree, and can envision quite some situations in which such tools would be of great utility.
That doesn't *necessarily* mean I want to see ENM in Ling Qi's toolkit, I don't really have a strong opinion about it. Although it is the easiest available Stealth Art, for now, and I like to see more Stealth in Ling Qi's kit. When she told Fefe that Stealth isn't really her specialty anymore, that felt sad. I still remember the 'sticky fingered tornado' fondly.
What I do want, though, is for the discussion to be open and clear. So I will keep pointing out that neither ENM, nor Fade, are *dangerous* or *negative*. They aren't.
Before the name 'math-cabal' gets taken anymore seriously, I want to say that it is merely the name of a discord channel and anyone can go there to join or start the discussions in it.
Has this battle already been lost, or can I request that relevant discussions be made available to all participants? I'm not on discord and I don't really intend to be...
I am not really sure I understand why someone would be worried about Fade. It's a skill. A tool in the system that everyone uses. It's a stat. It's like saying "I am worried about leveling up Manipulation because it makes you a manipulative person." It doesn't. Not on it's own. It's a tool you use, as is Fade. Having a high Fade stat doesn't mean people will randomly start to forget Ling Qi or remember her less vividly.
Neither would ENM do something like that. ENM *can* do something like that, when Ling Qi deploys it consciously. Passing the guards at the gate, and having them forgot her face, for example. It won't suddenly lead to Biyu having trouble remember who Ling Qi is. It won't mean the audience at some party will remember less of Ling Qi.
ENM, and advanced Fade skills keying off of it, are not *dangerous*. They are tools to be used, or not used. It's possible that someone thinks those tools will never be useful or should never be used. I disagree, and can envision quite some situations in which such tools would be of great utility.
That doesn't *necessarily* mean I want to see ENM in Ling Qi's toolkit, I don't really have a strong opinion about it. Although it is the easiest available Stealth Art, for now, and I like to see more Stealth in Ling Qi's kit. When she told Fefe that Stealth isn't really her specialty anymore, that felt sad. I still remember the 'sticky fingered tornado' fondly.
What I do want, though, is for the discussion to be open and clear. So I will keep pointing out that neither ENM, nor Fade, are *dangerous* or *negative*. They aren't.
While I, by and large, agree with you, ENM's 'cutting memories' theme is what people are worried about incorporating into Ling Qi, thinking that, because we've taken an Insight from every Art we master, that mastery of ENM will therefore mean incorporating that theme into Ling Qi permanently, or that deriving a lesson from an Art in the form of an Advanced Skill means incorporating the lesson of the Art into LQ's personality and providing it with screen-time and narrative space.
I can understand that worry and fear without outright agreeing that it is something to worry about.
It certainly isn't logical, but fear rarely is. Logic is a series of tools, requiring training and thought to properly deploy. Fear is an instinctual reaction.
I can understand that worry and fear without outright agreeing that it is something to worry about.
It certainly isn't logical, but fear rarely is. Logic is a series of tools, requiring training and thought to properly deploy. Fear is an instinctual reaction.
Indeed, that is why I am trying to explain the issue at hand. So that hopefully an educated decision can be made that isn't based on fear or instinctual response.
Learning an Art does not mean it has to be incorporated into our Domain, or will be. It does mean we will be offered a choice between several Insights and not taking any at all and thus not slotting it. Furthermore, Domain Slots are limited and it is very unlikely that we would even have the space to slot ENM.
I can agree that slotting ENM or not is a worthwhile discussion to have and that there might be concerns about the effects. Rejecting ENM prematurely out of this concern, when we don't even know what those effects and Insights might be (it is perfectly possible that ENM would offer a 'not dangerous' insight, one not based around 'forgetting'), and furthermore, when we are extremely unlikely to slot it in the first place seems... well, premature to me.
On the other hand, the narrative space for an Advanced skill is... not particularly concerning to me. Our highest Advanced Skill is 'Woodwind: A (24/40)'. Considering how much narrative space *that* gets, I... am not particularly concerned about what an advanced Fade skill might look like, or not.
The problem with this thinking is that, if we'd decided to train ENM, we'd be training SCS at the same time.
SCS, which we've based our stealth on since we were in Yellow.
SCS, which we've already gained one Advanced Skill from.
SCS, an Art so good that it, by itself, has had Ducal Scions sit up and take notice. To the point that Sun Liling didn't consider it to be punching down while we were Yellow/Silver and she was Green/Bronze.
It would not be thematically appropriate for ENM to provide an advanced Stealth skill, not when we're training SCS at the same time and are already on the verge of a breakthrough, requiring one more push - something we should be getting in the near future, given the further training this month for the Scout Forces and the drills next month.
Now, I can absolutely understand being worried about ENM providing an advanced Fade skill. That is much farther away, and we'd be training ENM for most, if not all, of that time.
But what's done is done.
There is at least one person who voted for the 'Spend more time with family' option with the opinion that it would reduce the amount of time available for training new Arts, and believed that that would translate to learning fewer Archive arts - which, taken in the context of available Archive Arts, means no stealth Arts from the first floor of the Archive.
Ah, I remember that. Though it was more a 'so, how much damage would 1AP/turn be' discussion and I would still support the opinion that it will result in less archive arts trained.
This doesnt make it the reason to vote for the family option nor a conspiracy against Stealth. It is for one a possible drawback of the option and for second a counter argument to 'this will cost an entire turn of cultivation', because losing 2-4 archive arts is still a cheaper cost than entire turn of cultivazion as far as I see it.
I know there was disagreement over whether or not this is an acceptable cost, but certainly no conspiracy with the aim to prevent Stealth.
Before the name 'math-cabal' gets taken anymore seriously, I want to say that it is merely the name of a discord channel and anyone can go there to join or start the discussions in it. There is no requirement of any kind for it and if someone doesnt understand something then they can just ask.
Yeah, anyone can join the channel "Math-Cabal" but that doesn't mean anyone will. It's on discord and it is, as you mention a separate channel from the ones frequently engaged in. Which makes it two steps removed from the thread proper.
That's not much of a concern in my opinion. No, I have a much more visceral disgruntlement with the math-cabal in general. Now I have no intention of disparaging the individuals who engage in the channel, as they do much needed and critical work, but I see an incredible problem with it. That problem can be summed up in a couple of quotes from the old discord channel.
01/28/2019
it's why we don't trust slotting - until people demonstrate the ability to not slot things it's hard to believe they will
These quotes are not from the same people. They are from different people, of which two have the new shinny role as Mathemagician in the new discord, indicating a level of trust and authority in the new Math-Cabal thread.
So let me ask this question. Why should the regular player trust conclusions of the math-cabal when members of the math-cabal don't trust the regular player to make decisions and show a willingness to entertain abject manipulation of the thread?
Now, I'll admit, maybe the above quotes don't indicate the general sentiment of the math-cabal. But when I was scrolling through it I didn't see much outrage at suggestions of manipulation or lack of trust. And quite frankly, the results of said lack of trust can be seen in month's four plan. We could have mastered SCS, but choose not to. There are valid reasons for that, such as more opportunity to train Sable Grace more efficiently. But, given the quotes above, was training Sable Grace the reason or the excuse?
Sable Grace is an Advanced Skill. Fade is a base skill. Like Fortitude or Resilience, or Blades or Government. There is no mystical or supernatural component to this skill, it doesn't let you vanish from direct line of sight or memory.
Advanced Skills are necessary to raise a skill from C to B. They rely on Arts or special circumstances to support them. What Fade's Advanced Skill might be, is entirely speculative at the moment.
I am honestly a bit unsure about what the Fade Skill really implies or what you actually *do* when using it. I suppose it is something like 'fading' into the background, being unassuming and just part of the crowd without standing out. Or in a less social scenario, camouflage. That's just my take on it, though.
Fade is a base skill. Like Fortitude or Resilience, or Blades or Government. There is no mystical or supernatural component to this skill, it doesn't let you vanish from direct line of sight or memory.
I am honestly a bit unsure about what this skill really implies or what you actually *do* when using it. I suppose it is something like 'fading' into the background, being unassuming and just part of the crowd without standing out. Or in a less social scenario, camouflage. That's just my take on it, though.
It's the Spiritual equivalent of 'Dodge'. It feeds into 'Spiritual Avoid', which is used to prevent opponents from 'hitting' with spiritual attacks and effects. This is most important when avoiding Spiritual debuffs / 'bad touch' effects, which only need to 'hit' the target to have their effect go off, rather than need to penetrate Armor.
Put more simply, it's the skill used to avoid being hit by most of the negative effects of FVM and FSS. We've seen segments where FVM 'latches onto' an opponents spirit, or is dispelled, or misses, but I don't remember where those are.
It only started to exist with the updated skill system in Threads, it didn't exist as a discrete skill in Forge.
Yeah, anyone can join the channel "Math-Cabal" but that doesn't mean anyone will. It's on discord and it is, as you mention a separate channel from the ones frequently engaged in. Which makes it two steps removed from the thread proper.
That's not much of a concern in my opinion. No, I have a much more visceral disgruntlement with the math-cabal in general. Now I have no intention of disparaging the individuals who engage in the channel, as they do much needed and critical work, but I see an incredible problem with it. That problem can be summed up in a couple of quotes from the old discord channel.
These quotes are not from the same people. They are from different people, of which two have the new shinny role as Mathemagician in the new discord, indicating a level of trust and authority in the new Math-Cabal thread.
So let me ask this question. Why should the regular player trust conclusions of the math-cabal when members of the math-cabal don't trust the regular player to make decisions and show a willingness to entertain abject manipulation of the thread?
Now, I'll admit, maybe the above quotes don't indicate the general sentiment of the math-cabal. But when I was scrolling through it I didn't see much outrage at suggestions of manipulation or lack of trust. And quite frankly, the results of said lack of trust can be seen in month's four plan. We could have mastered SCS, but choose not to. There are valid reasons for that, such as more opportunity to train Sable Grace more efficiently. But, given the quotes above, was training Sable Grace the reason or the excuse?
>why should a player trust the conclusion of the 'math-cabal'? They should not. All plans taken from there to here should come with a justification for them. If you want to check the percentages given, then you can do it, because all used resources are pinned in the channel. If you dont trust those either then you can double check using your own excel sheets. If you feel the arguments provided in this thread are weak then you of course you can and should mention it here. You could even make a competing plan if you want to.
Now, I'll admit, maybe the above quotes don't indicate the general sentiment of the math-cabal. But when I was scrolling through it I didn't see much outrage at suggestions of manipulation or lack of trust. And quite frankly, the results of said lack of trust can be seen in month's four plan. We could have mastered SCS, but choose not to. There are valid reasons for that, such as more opportunity to train Sable Grace more efficiently. But, given the quotes above, was training Sable Grace the reason or the excuse?
The reason for not mastering SCS was said both inthread and in discord many times: so that CDE, TRF and SCS will all be mastered at the same turn, and so that each will get a 'fair' shake at being slotted. This wasn't hidden through some kind of nefarious plotting, it's just that we have currently 4 slots left, and we need to slot at least 1 of those to get to foundation.
If we had mastered CDE/SCS this turn, it would have become a "do we slot SCS/CDE or the TRF we can't yet see" type of argument, like we had when we were slotting FSS/FVM with people already saying slotting both meant slotting TRF would be harder.
This is something that was brought up inthread many times, and it was decided to master all our arts on the same turn so that we could compare the insights in a fair manner.
EDIT: the 'abject manipulation' you are referring to is basically saying "Plan makers wanted to make plans so that slotting arts isn't done one by one", and not actually manipulating what arts to train or what arts to slot (as everyone disagree there).
>why should a player trust the conclusion of the 'math-cabal'? They should not. All plans taken from there to here should come with a justification for them. If you want to check the percentages given, then you can do it, because all used resources are pinned in the channel. If you dont trust those either then you can double check using your own excel sheets. If you feel the arguments provided in this thread are weak then you of course you can and should mention it here. You could even make a competing plan if you want to.
I certainly don't trust the plans crafted by the Math-Cabal. That's why I didn't vote for the month four plan.
The problem, however, isn't whether I trust them, its that people in the Math-Cabal have created an in-group and out-group (us vs. the thread) and have talked about manipulating the thread because they don't trust the thread. I have a visceral dislike for that kind of mindset. It implies that the people who participate in the Math thread on a regular basis are better than the average voter and that their opinions should matter more. And if they don't trust themselves to persuade the thread towards their opinion, they are willing to actively create plans that manipulate the threads option so that their opinion is more likely to be voted for.
I have no qualms about the tools and resources developed by the Math thread, heck, I've helped craft them when I notice inconsistencies with them. I have qualms, however, when people in the math thread move away from math and start talking about manipulation and a lack of trust.
The reason for not mastering SCS was said both inthread and in discord many times: so that CDE, TRF and SCS will all be mastered at the same turn, and so that each will get a 'fair' shake at being slotted. This wasn't hidden through some kind of nefarious plotting, it's just that we have currently 4 slots left, and we need to slot at least 1 of those to get to foundation.
If we had mastered CDE/SCS this turn, it would have become a "do we slot SCS/CDE or the TRF we can't yet see" type of argument, like we had when we were slotting FSS/FVM with people already saying slotting both meant slotting TRF would be harder.
This is something that was brought up inthread many times, and it was decided to master all our arts on the same turn so that we could compare the insights in a fair manner.
And why should I trust that reasoning? It sounds nice, and sounds like something that's valuable, but it comes from a place that doesn't trust people not to grab everything they can.
I've quoted people asking whether they should engage in manipulation of the thread because they don't trust in the thread. That's a problem.
And why should I trust that reasoning? It sounds nice, and sounds like something that's valuable, but it comes from a place that doesn't trust people not to grab everything they can.
I've quoted people asking whether they should engage in manipulation of the thread because they don't trust in the thread. That's a problem.
You haven't quoted that. You have said you didn't trust the people because they have said they don't trust players. 'Players' are everyone, including each others in the "math cabal". Abeo doesn't trust Erebeal who doesn't trust Black Noise who doesn't trust SWB who doesn't trust Alectai who doesn't Trust Thor Twin who trusts no one.
You are the only one creating a "Us vs Them" scenario, here. The view that domain slotting is a shiny that people jump on has nothing to do with the "math cabal" or even "discord", as people who has never gone to discord have said it, and the majority of people in discord who said it aren't in the math channel.
I'll give you a hint: people who say that domain slotting are a shiny that are hard to vote against also vote for the shiny that is domain slotting.
I liken the math-cabal to the Holy Roman Empire, honestly. With the mathemagicians being something like Elector counts.
The HRE was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.
In the same way, the so-called 'math cabal' is no impartial or neutral organization. It is none of these things. It's not impartial, but rife with bias and preferences. It is not neutral, because it is made up out of players with interests and preferences. It is not an organization because anyone can style or name themselves as part of it.
Neither are any of these things required, or should even be required. Like @Thor's Twin said, it easily leads to an in-group and out-group perspective or an us-vs-them mentality.
What can be said is that so-called 'math-cabal members' often have a better grasp of the mechanics of the quest and often are more invested than the 'average' player in the quest. Not necessarily, though, and there are certainly players who don't claim to be part of the math-cabal and are just as invested or more so. Like @naths said, the math-cabal shouldn't be trusted or followed blindly. Ideally, their proposal would be listened to and then evaluated, and the individual voter deciding to their preference what vote they will cast.
Many math-cabal members often have an agenda and that is perfectly fine. They are players and voters like everyone else and should be allowed to have those. ... They are also often at odds with each other; the 'math-cabal' is far from a unified front or a hive mind. But nearly every plan maker quite naturally is convinced of the merits of their plan and tries to sell them as the desired outcome. That's perfectly fine. It's still upon the voters to decide and not blindly follow party colours. At least for something as serious and important as a Quest.
TL;DR: The 'math-cabal' is a joke and not some sanctioned group of Experts many Stages above the junior questers.
>why should a player trust the conclusion of the 'math-cabal'? They should not. All plans taken from there to here should come with a justification for them. If you want to check the percentages given, then you can do it, because all used resources are pinned in the channel. If you dont trust those either then you can double check using your own excel sheets. If you feel the arguments provided in this thread are weak then you of course you can and should mention it here. You could even make a competing plan if you want to.
So let me ask this question. Why should the regular player trust conclusions of the math-cabal when members of the math-cabal don't trust the regular player to make decisions and show a willingness to entertain abject manipulation of the thread?
Here's my take on this 'math cabal' thing. Voting blocs happen. They happen naturally in quests like this. It can be over something like 'keep the staff we looted!' versus 'sell the staff we looted!'. Thus we have two arguing voting blocs.
The 'Math-Cabal' as I see it, is basically a consistent version of those temporary blocs, only their objective is a longer-form 'how do we make the best Ling Qi we can?'. And in turn, what elevates them is also their goal- optimizing the build, the work they put in gives them a source of concrete facts to work from which can beat out a drifting voter's gut reaction or sway them away from it.
The so-called math cabal is pretty far from unified. The people there want different things in many topics and there's plenty of disagreements, of which a lot are on narrative and thematic fit, not just build direction. In this the discussion holds no extra weight compared to the same talk happening elsewhere.
The math part of the channel is most relevant to ensure that whatever plans are raised, are in some sense optimized to make use full use of our various resources (and showing off spreadsheets). Anyone is welcome to join this discussion, ask for clarifications on the numbers and motivations, or ask for help or feedback in constructing a plan to fit their own goal.
I personally, have taken a "math-cabal" plan, changed the 1-2 things I didn't want, and posted that after checking the changes were still somewhat optimal with the resources of the plan.
I'm here for narrative and character-driven story, so I will vote on that basis. (Relentless optimization is inhuman, imho.) So math-cabal or not makes less difference.
What I care about is that the pros and cons of various options and plans are being hashed out somewhere not here, which kinda suppresses discussion here and leads to Fait Accomplit plans getting presented and voted on with big chunks of justification missing. Less so here, but I've seen a lot of 'oh, we already talked about that' responses in other quests when plans were criticized, and that is the sort of thing I'd really like to avoid. (Continue avoiding?)
In that moment, Ling Qi felt like she had finally understood the lesson of Sable Crescent's Grace, of motion without motion and presence without presence.
I'm here for narrative and character-driven story, so I will vote on that basis. (Relentless optimization is inhuman, imho.) So math-cabal or not makes less difference.
What I care about is that the pros and cons of various options and plans are being hashed out somewhere not here, which kinda suppresses discussion here and leads to Fait Accomplit plans getting presented and voted on with big chunks of justification missing. Less so here, but I've seen a lot of 'oh, we already talked about that' responses in other quests when plans were criticized, and that is the sort of thing I'd really like to avoid. (Continue avoiding?)
Oh, you will get the arguments here too. There were differences in opinion mentioned before, right? This kinda leads to everyone bringing their arguments here when the voting happens, because no one wants to 'lose' the vote.
Math discussion was chased from the main Discord channel in the old server. That's why the math channel even exists in the first place. People don't want to have to read 10 pages of spreadsheet chat.
"Incredible," Xuan Shi breathed, stepping across the threshold from cloud to stone.
Ling Qi was not sure she would go that far, though it was pretty impressive. Inside the doors was a long pillared hall like a grand temple, with a thick red carpet leading up its center. The only light in the room came from the pale glow of shimmering walls of elemental qi that blocked access to the rear of the room. There were eight of the things, and though each one was partially translucent, together they worked to block her sight and other senses from examining the rear of the room. All she could see was the blurry silhouette of a large vaguely humanoid shape.
She frowned as she followed Xuan Shi in, examining the area for a way forward. The barriers stretched from pillar to pillar, and access to the 'halls' on either side were blocked by iron gates that stretched to the ceiling. While she didn't care for her chances of going through the crackling wall of semi solid that made up the first barrier, it seemed like this might be relatively easy for her to bypass. Of course, that itself might be a trap. "What do you think?" Ling Qi asked absently.
"Oh! We could come out and knock the pillars over!" Zhengui answered excitedly.
"You'd knock the whole building down you doof," Hanyi replied, giving the impression of rolling her eyes with naught but her tone.
"Reality and script have merged here. Without doubt we stand within the sealed temple, final hurdle of Temple of Storms," Xuan Shi mused aloud.
"What?" Sixiang asked, sounding all to amused.
"What?" Ling Qi asked in a rather less enthused tone.
Xuan Shi glanced over at her, and tugged his hat down, further shading his eyes, "The authors words described such a place in his first novel."
Well, if she took the assumption that the author… or a dedicated reader had built the place, she supposed that wasn't too strange. "Well, what happened in the book then?" Ling Qi asked.
Xuan Shi paused, as if deliberating something. "...This one will keep explanations short. In this place the hero sought a sealed ship within a temple such as this. He reached this place together with the Storm Sorceress Hotene, who intended to take the ship for herself, but in the end the trials brought them together, and they left the isle together on the ship."
"Well obviously," Hanyi huffed. "Who would just take a dumb boat when you could take the guy too."
Leaving Hanyi's comment totally aside, Ling Qi raised an eyebrow. "What did they face though?"
Xuan Shi deliberated. "This one does not expect the exact details to match. The words were written for the benefit of those who had not yet drunk from the well of the world as we have. With talents such as ours, the trials of trust and betrayal which they faced would be all to easy to bypass. However, the statue will likely still bring battle upon us."
Ling Qi squinted at the shadowy figure hidden behind the barriers. "Fair enough. Want me to scout out the 'trials' then?"
"It would be appreciated," he replied, dipping his head. "Allow this one instead to study the function of the barriers and if they might be pierced."
Ling Qi nodded, that seemed like a plan. She left Xuan Shi to contemplate the scintillating wall of lightning and headed instead to the left side of the room to examine the iron gate there. On her way, she paused near the pillar, and after a moment's thought, let darkness flow through her channels, that done, she carefully reached a finger into the stone pillar… and recoiled at the sharp shock. Ling Qi clicked her tongue, of course it wouldn't be that simple.
"Hah, Guess the creator wasn't a fan of that kind of boring solution, huh?" Sixiang said, amused.
"We could just knock down one pillar," Zhengui grumbled, just a little sullenly.
Ling Qi just shook her head in amusement at the byplay, Reaching the gate, she closed her eyes and breathed out, letting the misty, malleable qi of water and moon well up behind her eyes. A moment later, she opened them and three little bobbing white lights shimmered into existence, and slipped through the bars of the gate.
The narrow stone hallway that she found beyond was unlit and unmarked by any decor. Studying its walls, Ling Qi tried first slipping an eye outside through the outer wall, and for a moment, Ling Qi glimpsed the open blue sky before a nauseous wrenching sensation made her vision swim and the point of view blink out, as if she had moved it out of range very suddenly.
She supposed this must be a sealed space then. With that in mind, she sent the other two lights bobbing along to examine the hallway. Sure enough The walls were covered in arrays, to dense and layered for her to do more than guess at their functions. Letting her eyes gleam silver with the increased flow of qi, Ling Qi saw barriers, illusions, paralysis and more lining the unassumed stone walls in a dense web, and Ling Qi could see, standing out from the rest, arrays that joined the traps here to the hallway on the right side.
Ling QI frowned and let the lights blink out, just as an array activated, threads of qi spearing out to shred the fading remains of the constructs. A check on the right side of the room turned up much the same, interlinked trap lined halls that Ling Qi was not totally confident that she could bypass.
With her task done, she returned to the middle of the hall, where Xuan Shi stood, still as stone, examining the barrier. "That halls look like kind of a slog, even if they're the intended path," she said bluntly. "We can probably get through, between the two of us, but… any luck for you?"
"...Perhaps, This one will require your assistance, however," Xuan Shi said, seeming faintly disappointed, his staff disappearing with a faint ring, and in its place there appeared a pair of iron rods, more like batons really, with the inscribed leather wrapping their handles. Their tips narrowed to blunt points however.
Ling Qi looked down at the one which he handed her, examining the few visible markings. It was a pretty masterfully made talisman, some kind of anti-lightning effect? "And what do I do with this?"
"Place the tips together," Xuan Shi replied sedately holding his own baton out. "Keep it so, and then press it to the barrier." Curious, Ling Qi did so, following along in unison as he thrust the metal into the wall of lightning. It hissed, sparked and snarled around the intruding material, but no shock reached her fingers. "And now, apart," Xuan Shi then drew his to one side, and Ling Qi pulled hers the opposite way.
The barrier parted like a curtain, sparking ragged edges snapping out little arcs of electricity across the gap that they had made, but it remained open all the same. She shared a look with Xuan Shi, and then as one, they stepped through, turning as they did to maintain the batons positions until they were through and the barrier could snap shut behind them.
"Well, that's one," Ling Qi said brightly. "You made this for Ji Rong I am guessing," she said, handing the talisman back.
"The wrath of heaven is better diverted than blocked," Xuan Shi agreed. "This next obstacle may prove more difficult however."
Ling Qi looked ahead, to the shimmering wall of turquoise qi.It was the concept of water, stripped down to a single point, endless flowing motion that would strip away whatever touched it, like the sea wearing away a stone.
...Yet, it was the motion which gave it power. Ling Qi smiled to herself, and with a thought, nudged Hanyi, who gave the impression of grinning as well as she reformed in a swirl of frost at Ling Qi's side. "I think I have this one," she said lightly.
Together with Hanyi, she sang, and a wide section of the churning water qi began to first, slow, and then still, becoming solid and brittle. Yet the frozen section was shrinking at the edges even as it formed, worn away and melted back into its base state.
Still, it gave a long enough window of opportunity for Xuan Shi to catch on lower his shoulder and bash his way through the now brittle barrier, leaving an opening for Ling Qi and Hanyi to slip through after.
"And thus the second passes," Xuan Shi mused, dusting the frost off his robe. "A thought occurs however, though this method may be the simplest, a flaw may exist."
Ling Qi frowned, examining the next barrier, a shimmering surface that reflected her own face like a lake on a clear day.
"I think I've got this one, worry about what Xuan is saying," Sixiang murmured, peering out through Ling Qi's eyes. At her side, Hanyi made faces at her distorted reflection.
"Stupid tiny spaces," Zhengui grumbled.
"What's the problem do you think?" Ling Qi asked, looking his way.
"In this sequence, the trials lead not only to treasure and trust, but also the key to the guardians defeat," Xuan Shi said. "And also, does this task not feel too easy?"
Ling Qi did have to admit, even when she had looked at the trapped hallways she hadn't seen a single thing that was genuinely deadly, and the barriers did seem kind of… not easy to bypass, but simple, perhaps? It made her wonder if they were missing something. On the other hand… it wasn't as if everything one discovered had its challenges tailored to appropriate difficulty.
"Well, I think we're doing fine," Ling Qi said, she gave him a sidelong look. "Are you regretting not following the heroes path here?"
She caught the signs of a frown, despite his high collar. "...Nay, we are not they, and this one would not presume." He shook his head. "All things aside, it will be best to test this one's creations in battle."
"Did you not do that in your challenge? You made a pretty high jump last month," Ling Qi asked.
"It was a test of creation, not war," Xuan Shi said absently. "The qi of the firmament is more my realm. Do you believe the lake is yours?"
"Not hers, but mine," Sixiang said aloud. "Think you two could hold hands for a second?"
Ling QI narrowed her eyes. "Sixiang, what are you planning?"
"Oh just gonna try something a little new to get through this barrier," Sixiang replied innocently. "Need you close together though."
Ling Qi shared a look with Xuan Shi, who looked bemused. "Please don't mind them," Ling Qi said. "Hanyi come here please."
"...Very well," Xuan Shi said
She stepped closer to Xuan Shi's side as Hanyi returned, grumbling to her dantian. While she still didn't really like cramming herself in close with someone else, this would be fine for a moment. She caught the shorter boys sleeve in her hand as Sixiang spread their qi through the air around them.
"Aaaaand forward!" Sixiang announced cheerfully. They stepped forward together, and the rippling lake qi engulfed them, only for its shimmering, distracting light to refract and scatter across the mist of moon qi saturating the air around them. She felt Sixiang straining in her head, letting out continual pulses of dispelling qi as they moved through the barrier, but their passage only took a moment.
"Oof. Think I need more practice with that before it'll be battle ready," Sixiang whispered, sounding drained.
"Is your companion well?" Xuan Shi asked as they faced down the next barrier, a thing of screaming tearing wind.
"Just a little tired," Ling Qi replied. "Now…"
Her words were interrupted however, as the room went dark, every barrier snapping off at once. While the lighting meant nothing to her, the rumbling groan of stone grinding against stone heralded something of much more concern.
"Hah, It seems cheating is not appreciated after all," Xuan Shi said.
Ahead of them, climbing to its feet was the statue they had glimpsed. Easily ten meters tall, it was carved in the likeness of a brawny, bearded man in archaic armor. From it's back rose eight additional arms, each composed of different elemental qi. It stepped of the dais it had been seated on, and the entire temple shook with its weight.
"I'm guessing it didn't have those arms in the book," Ling Qi said faintly, her eyes once again gleaming silver as she examined the statue. Even with her techniques however, what she could glean of its power was limited.
Green 2/Bronze 2
Speed: C
Phys Hit: B Phys Pen B
Phys Armor: S
Spiritual Armor: A
"Indeed not," Xuan Shi replied, raising his staff defensively, and taking on a wider stance. "However, this one suspects more than ever that brute force is not the answer."
Health A40 Qi B
Speed C Init D10
C Perc B25
Avoid D15, P Armor S25
S Avoid C15, S Armor A
P Hit B P Pen B10
Primary Element: Earth, Water
"I'm all for ideas," Ling Qi replied, taking stock of their surroundings, without the barriers, there was room to release Zhengui, and she had every intention of doing so shortly. Howeer, even now, she didn't feel too worried, the door remained open behind them, fleeing was always an option, giving the statues lumbering speed.
"It depends," the boy answered as the statue took another long stride forward, rocking the floor. "Which of us shall bear the guardians Ire, and which shall seek it's weakness?"
[] Be the Defense: Stay down here along with Zhengui and draw the guardians attention, while Xuan Shi seeks a method to disable it
[] Be the Offense: Use your superior mobility to to seek weakness in the guardians frame while Xuan Shi and Zhengui keep it's attention on them.
