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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Walliseatscheese said:
The original question was "based on the original infrastructure plans."

It's generally agreed that we'll be building up and down to allow for as much expansion as possible.
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The below is the post Azel was responding to, bolded for emphasis.

Crake said:
How many can the city with all the districts filled in (based on what you originally drew up) house? Assuming that in parts of the city, like the Braavosi quarter, we built upwards more on average.
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People, we had to literally make it so Lys attacked us(by practically chaining ourselves to that cretin). Even his own men thought he was all bluster.

The odds of Norvos or Qohor deciding to fight are infinitesimally low.
 
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[X] Azel

After Mind Blank items (22,000 IM buying price) and +1 Soulfire Mithral Bracers (5,000 IM buying price) are handed out to everyone important, the next focus should be Rings of Freedom of Movement (8,000 IM buying price).

The last one is especially important. Mind Flayers have an insta-kill if they succeed in any grapple (they eat your brain), and a Ring of Freedom of Movement utterly negates that. It's a must-have.
 
LonelyWolf999 said:
It would just be so much better and more convienient if the rest of the Free Cities bloodlessly submitted to us, and that's much more likely to happen if we tackle whatever's going down in Qohor.
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There is a lot that I can argue but I will focus on this. It would be convenient if Westeros kneeled the next day. It would be convenient if Tiamat fucked off. Convenience is great but frankly I have been a part of this quest long enough to know that convenient isn't that possible. Let's go down the list of our conquest.

Four times have we used diplomacy for expansion. Volantis, Myr, Braaavos and Saan. Myr only occurred because of a party in power beholden too. Volantis happened because we convinced Zherys it was good for him and even then we gave concessions. Saan was from the position of bend or break. And Braavos loves us. All of these were conditions that made them good for conquest. Let us say "convenient".

Qohor is a religious cult city overthrown, Norvos is a theocracy so no way in hell will they accept our laws, you know the only about temple guards and religious figures. Lorath is the only candidate that I can see diplomancing and that's only because there is nothing about them. So yeah it would be convenient if they came quietly but I dont see it. But what do I know I am a sociopath apparently.
 
Paradosi said:
People, we had to literally make it so Lys attacked us(by practically chaining ourselves to that cretin). Even his own men thought he was all bluster.

The odds of Norvos or Qohor deciding to fight are infinitesimally low.
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I don't know, DP has been consistent in displaying that the rot has really sunk in deeply. It took a perfect storm of upheavals (which we had a hand in) for Zherys to take such quick control of Volantis. That place was a dumpster fire waiting to go off (multiple times). And even up to the last moment there was potential for things to go horribly wrong (though not considerable). The bigger variables in the mix was Zherys deciding to jeopardize careful plans by trying to sweep aside the Reds with the seizure of power. That definitely could have ended in fire. Pun intended.

Braavos rode the wave because we gave them a leg up early on. Qohor and Norvos were left basically to themselves and look what that got them, respectively. As far as news traveling out of Norvos goes, "everything is under control", and as for Qohor, they suffered the most out of any Free City ironically despite being interacted with the least.

The Three Daughters were a cesspit waiting for their strings to be picked up by fiends or fey, with only Myr managing to keep nominal control of their administration and military and economy, but that could have been for nothing if Tyrosh and Lys had fell to dark powers which we directly intervened with, and it would have generally been down to endemic corruption and willful blindness up to the last, and an inability to grasp the concept of "enlightened self interest" let alone actual and basic empathy for the plight of outsiders.

Pentos, obviously, was already shitty with ordinary human failings. Things being like they are, we of course intervened in yet another city-killing event there.

Lorath is basically sphere'd by Braavos... and regarded as a cultural, economic and military backwater, so it's not surprising news there has mostly been curious but not alarming.

Basically, anyone that could have had potential to be a real player and threat suffered from their own issues, only having individual standouts like people trying to manage the chaos, and it is heavily implied with how many times we have seriously averted disaster personally that their efforts would not have been enough, simply because for all their talent, competence and ambition they had the same blindspots as what would have led to the destruction of all their other peers.

Re: Invading Qohor, we can manage a ground campaign so long as we control the Rhoyne, but that does seem likely to cause Norvos to try intervening, if they have a mind to at all. Making a logistical route into their territory the thing the campaign hinges upon seems a bit silly too when we could just slip troops into their perimeters and have ships trailing behind to resupply the occupational forces seizing control.

That's all a moot point as we cannot even begin to discuss the best manner to deal with either of them until we have more intelligence.
 
rising from the dark depths of the shadowy netherworld our traveler of the lost plains of salt of time's past begins his quest anew to read the Archives of yore and ask a vital question
Do
You
Have
Monks or Sword Sages
Yet?
 
To be fair, I'm pretty sure we can transport about a thousand soldiers at a time by Shadow Tower no problem.

It's inner dimensions aren't only the tower itself, after all.

But keeping soldiers on the march after they are deployed in the middle of enemy territory is going to be a bother, yes.

I myself agree with that we should not take quarth, if only out of geopolitical inconvenience.

Wheel of time said:
rising from the dark depths of the shadowy netherworld our traveler of the lost plains of salt of time's past begins his quest anew to read the Archives of yore and ask a vital question
Do
You
Have
Monks or Sword Sages
Yet?
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No. Go back to sleep, ya eldrtich abomination.
 
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egoo said:
To be fair, I'm pretty sure we can transport about a thousand soldiers at a time by Shadow Tower no problem.

It's inner dimensions aren't only the tower itself, after all.

But keeping soldiers on the march after they are deployed in the middle of enemy territory is going to be a bother, yes.

I myself agree with that we should not take quarth, if only out of geopolitical inconvenience.


No. Go to sleep.
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Sleep is for the weak
And sane
And healthy
and mentally well
And rational
I am the Prose Machine. I need no rest.
Also have to keep the like god legend going
 
Crake said:
Re: Invading Qohor, we can manage a ground campaign so long as we control the Rhoyne, but that does seem likely to cause Norvos to try intervening, if they have a mind to at all. Making a logistical route into their territory the thing the campaign hinges upon seems a bit silly too when we could just slip troops into their perimeters and have ships trailing behind to resupply the occupational forces seizing control.

That's all a moot point as we cannot even begin to discuss the best manner to deal with either of them until we have more intelligence.
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The logistics of this should not be ignored. We need a clear supply line established that does not rely on going through enemy territory and does not require teleport, otherwise we're stuck with a lot more trouble than it's worth.

We need clear shipping routes, which we can't have due to Volantis not being officially annexed for another few months, and due to the waters of Norvos and Lorath being in the way of Qohorik shores. You said we can manage a ground campaign if we control the Rhoyne, and I agree, but the Rhoyne simply isn't feasible until we get Volantis.

We have always taken great care to handle the logistics and had exhaustive preparation before undertaking large-scale conquest, the fact that we can insert troops quickly is irrelevant. They need to be able to make their own way to and from the drop-off point without direct intervention. That sort of thing is what makes or breaks an occupation.
 
Duesal said:
The logistics of this should not be ignored. We need a clear supply line established that does not rely on going through enemy territory and does not require teleport, otherwise we're stuck with a lot more trouble than it's worth.

We need clear shipping routes, which we can't have due to Volantis not being officially annexed for another few months, and due to the waters of Norvos and Lorath being in the way of Qohorik shores. You said we can manage a ground campaign if we control the Rhoyne, and I agree, but the Rhoyne simply isn't feasible until we get Volantis.

We have always taken great care to handle the logistics and had exhaustive preparation before undertaking large-scale conquest, the fact that we can insert troops quickly is irrelevant. They need to be able to make their own way to and from the drop-off point without direct intervention. That sort of thing is what makes or breaks an occupation.
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I feel like this conversation is significantly sillier while the current turn plan is talking about transportation of metric tonnes of liquid mercury (unusual, heavy and voluminous materials) across reality itself.

And the context of the action is "we could take way more, but meh, we only need a 'little' for right now"!
 
Crake said:
I feel like this conversation is significantly sillier while the current turn plan is talking about transportation of metric tonnes of liquid mercury (unusual, heavy and voluminous materials) across reality itself.

And the context of the action is "we could take way more, but meh, we only need a 'little' for right now"!
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And an entire conquest plan based on mass teleport and sustaining it on mass teleport, which takes up the King's starkly limited personal time, is something I'm not a fan of. It's far more convenient to just establish the land route, not to mention a lot more secure for whatever legionnaires we station there.
 
@Duesal My point was more that it's not like it would be impossible. We could even have scrolls of teleport made, and our carry capacity puts us well in the block of "can feed an army via transposition magic logistics chain". Expensive, sure, but not marginally more so than shipping grain and field rations would be to begin with.

The argument is moot, as I said, anyway, due to lack of intelligence. There is absolutely no telling that invasion is the optimal route to go.
 
Crake said:
@Duesal My point was more that it's not like it would be impossible. We could even have scrolls of teleport made, and our carry capacity puts us well in the block of "can feed an army via transposition magic logistics chain". Expensive, sure, but not marginally more so than shipping grain and field rations would be to begin with.
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And my point with this was that something that takes Viserys time, especially something that has mundane alternatives that require no direct attention, is very unappealing to me. If it's a choice between teleporting or securing a land route and letting minions take care of it, I'm picking the latter.
Crake said:
The argument is moot, as I said, anyway, due to lack of intelligence. There is absolutely no telling that invasion is the optimal route to go.
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We'll see. I have very little hope on that end, though.
 
We are so much spending time talking about the Eastern swamp.

We are missing the relevant facts here.

Ceterum autem censeo Tyrell esse delendam.
 
Goldfish said:
Here's the latest level up builds I can find. @TotallyNotEvil and @TalonofAnathrax were still chewing on the Asha level up when the subject came up.

EDIT: The only change I've made since we last discussed these was to swap in Aquatic Calvary in place of Cat's Grace for Theon. Cat's Grace is of limited utility for him. Aquatic Calvary isn't much of a combat spell, but it's a great utility tool for Theon to keep prepared, considering how he does all of his adventuring from a ship.

[] Theon Level Up
-[] Class: +1 Mystic Ranger
-[] Improved Combat Style (Archery): Manyshot
-[] Skills (8 points): +1 Knowledge(Dungeoneering), +1 Knowledge(Nature), +1 Spot, +1 Survival, +2 Knowledge(Arcana), +2 Knowledge(The Planes)
-[] Spell Loadout:
--[] Level 0: Cure Minor Wounds, Light, Mending, Purify Food and Drink (4/day)
--[] Level 1: Guided Shot, Hawkeye, Hunter's Mercy, Primal Hunter (3+1/day)
--[] Level 2: Aquatic Cavalry, Primal Instinct, Swift Haste(2+1/day)
--[] Level 3: Arrowsplit, Fickle Winds, Find the Gap(2+1/day)

[] Asha Level Up
-[] Class: +1 Rogue
-[] Alternate Class Feature: Trap Sense >>> Penetrating Strike
-[] Retrained Feats: Sidestep Charge >>> Combat Expertise, Dodge >>> Deadly Defense, Weapon Focus (Handaxe) >>> Riposte
-[] Skills (10 points): +1 Balance, +1 Bluff, +1 Intimidate, +1 Profession (Sailor), +1 Spot, +1 Swim, +1 Tumble, +3 Sense Motive
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Wait a minute please. Gotta go reread what TNE was suggesting. Why is she even taking another Rogue level? [Rhetorical question]
I'll get back to you in a few hours about this.
 
Deliste said:
"Doing what he can"

Can:
Kill the champion Harpy that ruled the city.

Cannot:
Be fucked sticking around to actually help create something better instead of only destroying the elements he disagrees with, and even then half-assedly.

Story checks out.
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If it's Bahamut, then he's probably operating under some bullshit rules and restrictions, that's exactly why we don't want to be a god, because all that power come with equal restrictions, considering how Bahamut work, if he is there and hasn't done more, then it's not because he don't want to, it's because his divine nature prevent him from doing so.
 
Deliste said:
How so? What exactly is stopping us from becoming Sharn-like? Up is basically infinite for us when materials science is literal magic.
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People actually have to live in these buildings and anything above 5 stories is going to become increasingly inconvenient for the average citizen. Building underground has the issue of being right next to the sea and thus groundwater levels being high.
 
Azel said:
People actually have to live in these buildings and anything above 5 stories is going to become increasingly inconvenient for the average citizen. Building underground has the issue of being right next to the sea and thus groundwater levels being high.
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I encourage you to look at Sharn: City of Towers.

I am against building underground for residential purposes, natural light is important, we are Fire & Air foremost, our citizens dragons (lowercase), not worms.
 
tarrangar said:
If it's Bahamut, then he's probably operating under some bullshit rules and restrictions, that's exactly why we don't want to be a god, because all that power come with equal restrictions, considering how Bahamut work, if he is there and hasn't done more, then it's not because he don't want to, it's because his divine nature prevent him from doing so.
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Hence it being under "cannot".

I think what people fail to realise is that when your "hands are tied" by your inherent nature that is not an exception, you are not acting despite X or Y.

It is what you are, forever, there's no point even saying "but his hands are tied".

When people say that, they are indicating that it is not in that person's nature or is not their normal course of behaviour, it is abnormal and a result of external pressure though they would act otherwise if they could, have in the past and/or would in the future.

If you're forced to be an asshole and you can't ever not be, you're an asshole as much as any other.
 
Duesal said:
@Goldfish, how much does an item of Freedom of Movement cost?

Alternatively, we can go with a plan that actually makes sense on a geographic level and pressure Norvos before focusing on Qohor. Norvos will not be able to stand up to our full attention, regardless of whatever attempts at a coalition it tries, and this way we'll actually have a continual Imperium rather than just the Three Daughters on the western coast and then Qohor randomly hundreds of miles inland, separated from the rest of our realm by land that isn't ruled by us.

It would be convenient if everyone just surrendered to us, but I'm unconvinced that getting Qohor first is the way to do it. It makes far more sense to secure the land route before attempting to diffuse the cultist bomb. This isn't Tyrosh that's literally at our doorstep, the logistics of this don't just stop being a problem solely because we have Teleport.

EDIT: Ring of Freedom of Movement

8,000 IM to buy? That's... honestly, I'd love to equip everyone with these if we've got the room for it. Ser Richard already has one of his own from Mammon's Aspect, and Viserys has one in his Cowl of Warding enchantment on his crown, so that's... ten more to equip every Companion.

EDIT 2: @Goldfish, everyone needs Freedom of Movement to keep the Mindflayers from grappling them and eating their brains.
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Duesal said:
[X] Azel

After Mind Blank items (22,000 IM buying price) and +1 Soulfire Mithral Bracers (5,000 IM buying price) are handed out to everyone important, the next focus should be Rings of Freedom of Movement (8,000 IM buying price).

The last one is especially important. Mind Flayers have an insta-kill if they succeed in any grapple (they eat your brain), and a Ring of Freedom of Movement utterly negates that. It's a must-have.
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Freedom of Movement is an easier effect to come by than Mind Blank. I don't think we need to spend 8,000 IM per Companion to equip everyone with FoM items.

If anyone has access to the Heart of Water spell, they can cancel it to gain Freedom of Movement for 1 round/caster level. That's Viserys, Lya, and Waymar at the moment, though Viserys is already covered. And of course Richard has his new ring.

Even better, however, is the Periapt of the Sullen Sea. It's part of an item set that goes along with the Boots of the Wide Earth, costs just 600 IM, and allows the wearer to convert 4th level spell slots into Freedom of Movement spells. Lya already has it and I'm planning for Tyene and Vee to have it as well. All three of them have plenty of 4th level spells slots to go around, and at their caster levels, each use of the spell would last for 2+ hours.

I'm all for spending money to improve our folks' gear, but it's not always the best solution.
 
Bad news, @Deliste, I just got word from DP that the reagents (the ashes of a Shapeshifting Humanoid) for Umbral Spies is too exotic to be an off-the-shelf item even in the Opaline Vault or Armun Kelisk. We're going to have to dedicate an action from someone to finding the ashes if we want to craft Umbral Spies.
 
Goldfish said:
Bad news, @Deliste, I just got word from DP that the reagents (the ashes of a Shapeshifting Humanoid) for Umbral Spies is too exotic to be an off-the-shelf item even in the Opaline Vault or Armun Kelisk. We're going to have to dedicate an action from someone to finding the ashes if we want to craft Umbral Spies.
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Well that's annoying, I raised this well before we met those were-creatures in the tower, weren't some of them dead? We could have easily collected it then and there.
 
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