We don't even need to bring that up(even though we can point to how we're disappointed in how Mace just planted his fat ass at Storm's End for majority of the war), we just need to make him see that we haven't forgotten the Reach. If we ignore our loyalists, it brings up the question of why anyone should be loyal to us in the first place(and yes, we know we're great IC and OOC, but why would that be obvious to others?).

I mean, I'd say that one of my last lines does that, pointing to their own defenders existing shows we know of them. But how would you add that in? I'm legitimately asking here.

Oh right we did send Tyene over to the Reach a while ago. She pretended to be a male knight and killed some sort of demon I think and tossed its corpse into a town square while proclaiming how great the Dragon King is.

We could allude to that in our "the Reach has issues but is not in existential straights right now." line
 
Oh yeah I agree. He thinks we're mostly interacting to secure support for a restoration/support loyalists. I legit think when we mess around in Westeros it's largely to prevent certain parts from becoming blighted lifeless nothing-Ness, devil dancing grounds, illithid breeding stocks, etc. Aka it would be nice if we had the time to purely interact based on loyalties during the Rebellion/get support for the upcoming restoration but no there are too many literally and metaphorical fires to put out everywhere.

"
We are not trying to 'reward' people right now. We are trying to ensure the kingdoms exists."
It totally is because of this. For the vast majority, most of our interactions with Westeros are centered around us trying to make sure that it still exists.
I think we have to remember that not all the Tyrells are Mace.
This is ASOIAF, thus people are judged by their House first.

We will never escape the stain of Rhaegar and Aerys.

House Lannister will be held accountable for Tywin's deeds.

House Tyrell will be called to account for Mace's obvious laxness during the Rebellion.
 
Vote updated with the excellent line from @A_Somebody

[X] Death in Winter
-[X] "Magic has awakened everywhere, my lord. The Fey, while not harmless by any measure, do not seek the death of all that breathes. There are creatures beyond the wall that do, and even now they prepare for the coming of Winter." Building from the same place that he understands, connecting the Fae to the Others in ideal.
-[X] "I do not speak of tales in this, I speak of the reasons for which the Wall was built and the Night Watch founded. I have fought those creatures in the North, creatures of undeath and corrupted Fae magic. Without my presence, White Harbour might well be a ruin. Back ourselves up, with connection to Whiteharbour so that he can check if wants to.
-[X] "This is not a threat that can be parlayed with, only to be fought by every living being that wishes to survive on this world. If you do not believe me," this is not a judging statement, simply advice, "ask Dusk-Dancer of the Long Night and those who came from the North to bring it down upon the world." More foundational work.
-[X] "So as any who cares for the peoples of Westeros, I have acted to secure them from what I see as the most lethal of all threats rising to strike them down. To do that, I must support the Night's Watch, and there are limits to what I can do in that without at least the acceptance of Lord Stark. But aid was needed, aid that I could not see coming from any other place, and so it was given." Our agreement with Lord Stark allows us to support the Watch, which is part of his domain. Nothing more.
-[X] "I have done as much in the Crownlands and Vale against those truly hellish foes, and in other places too in battle against other foes of mankind. Again, aid was needed, and with none offering it, I could do little less than act. As close as we can get to pointing out that the Crown has done basically nothing to secure Westeros against supernatural threats. Yes, it does matter.
-[X] "The Reach has needed my attention least so far, both because your most local supernatural entities are rarely accommodating of guests seeking to take what they see as theirs. And you have your own heroes too, in the Green Knight and those who protect Oldtown." This is phrased as a compliment, but there's an edge to it. The Fae might have helped keep the Reach safe, but they never give anything freely.
-[X] "I'm not trying to reward people right now. I'm trying to ensure that the Seven Kingdoms can continue to exist."
-[X] "If you wish, my Lord, I could show you proof of this. My realm is but a heartbeat away if you would trust my word to keep to responsibilities of a host as you have done for myself, and there is much there that could prove my words more than any oath might." Get him to come see what we've created and why. If he asks for our word of safe passage, we will give it.

Further suggestions most welcome.
 
Should it mean no one of House Targaryen is fit to rule again though? That's kind of the argument we'd be making with kicking House Tyrell to the curb because of Mace's decisions.
Ultimately, by their actions they've shown a great amount of self-interest and not much actual loyalty.

I don't see why we should go out of our way to keep them in power when it makes far more sense for us to do some rearranging and split the Reach.
 
Just wondering are Guest Rights a thing in the South? I know they're super important in the North but how valued are they further south?
 
As of the last interlude we saw of her, she's just as bad as the rest of the family in terms of being out for herself and the family.

We already knew that OOC, as I assume we know who Margaery is. :p

How would Viserys know though?

Ultimately, by their actions they've shown a great amount of self-interest and not much actual loyalty.

I don't see why we should go out of our way to keep them in power when it makes far more sense for us to do some rearranging and split the Reach.

I don't disagree, but once again it comes down to Mace and maybe Olenna. If House Tyrell is unfit to rule because of Mace and Olenna, why are we fit to rule when there's Aerys, Rhaegar and all the other batshit crazy Targaryens?
 
Even if we don't trust Mace and his mother, aren't there anyone young enough among the Tyrells that we could educate/indoctrinate into our line of thinking? We could probably shatter anyone's current world-view and mold them again in our own image.

I'm a bit rusty on ASOIF lore, but would it might be worth using this discussion to set up an actual meeting with the Tyrells? Even if they are completely self-serving, it might be worth stringing them along until we're too entrenched for them to do anything. With the wealth and tech disparity between us and them, we can give them stuff that might seem like a reward but will be a pittance to us and comparatively worthless at a later date.
 
I don't disagree, but once again it comes down to Mace and maybe Olenna. If House Tyrell is unfit to rule because of Mace and Olenna, why are we fit to rule when there's Aerys, Rhaegar and all the other batshit crazy Targaryens?
It's a convenient excuse for us to take the Reach from a house we don't trust.

If people don't trust us because of the crazies in our families? Alright, fine. Try to argue with us about our right to rule, just see how that goes.
 
We're judging her off the example of her father.

Would we want to be judged by what Aerys did? It's a stain on our reputation, but it's not something that means Viserys is destined to be the same.

Still, I agree that it's hard to find the right words here.

It's a convenient excuse for us to take the Reach from a house we don't trust.

If people don't trust us because of the crazies in our families? Alright, fine. Try to argue with us about our right to rule, just see how that goes.

I don't disagree, but you have to admit that it gives people an obvious talking point against us. It also makes us a hypocrite.
 
I don't disagree, but once again it comes down to Mace and maybe Olenna. If House Tyrell is unfit to rule because of Mace and Olenna, why are we fit to rule when there's Aerys, Rhaegar and all the other batshit crazy Targaryens?

I mean there are people that think that way. For instance during his interlude Benjen Stark was kinda pissed by the fact that a Targaryen of all people was being helpful, along with Jeor and Ned going along with us helping the Wall.
 
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[X] Snowfire

@Snowfire maybe offer we would be willing to talk directly to Tyrell at some point, assuming that is what people want, and also give him Rina's books? Hell talk to Rina herself?
 
Ah. Many of our minions are pretty fucking selfish. They just profit from our rise and like us because of Viserys sheer charisma.

At this point being I don't really mind people like them as long as they are useful.
 
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@Snowfire

-[X] "I have done as much in the Crownlands and Vale against those truly hellish foes, and in other places too in battle against other foes of mankind. Again, aid was needed, and with none offering it, I could do little less than act. As close as we can get to pointing out that the Crown has done basically nothing to secure Westeros against supernatural threats. Yes, it does matter.

Do want to include that time Cersei mocked the Crackclaw Pointers asking for help against illithids? When they asked for help against mysterious forces kidnapping people, she said they were too drunk to recognize their distant relatives wandering around or something similarly offensive. I can't remeber the exact rumor now.

I mean I get we're trying to be the bigger person here but that was particularly agregious and fuck the Lannisters. It also helps sell the difference between Robert and us. He partially refused to help since Crackclaw Point was royalist while Viserys does provide aid to the North and Vale if its needed. (also cause fuck devils. that flauxgon is next to will o wisps on my list)
 
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I don't disagree, but you have to admit that it gives people an obvious talking point against us. It also makes us a hypocrite.
Maybe, but as a returning conquerer we'll be well within our rights to dole punishments for actions or inactions during the previous war. People can talk against us all they want. They can't do a damn thing about it.
 
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