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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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@DragonParadox I think we've got consensus here.
Adhoc vote count started by Snowfire on Dec 25, 2018 at 2:09 PM, finished with 185 posts and 21 votes.
  • [X] Death in Winter
    -[X] "Magic has awakened everywhere, my lord. The Fey, while not harmless by any measure, do not seek the death of all that breathes. There are creatures beyond the wall that do, and even now they prepare for the coming of Winter." Building from the same place that he understands, connecting the Fae to the Others in ideal.
    -[X] "I do not speak of tales in this, I speak of the reasons for which the Wall was built and the Night Watch founded. I have fought those creatures in the North, creatures of undeath and corrupted Fae magic. Without my presence, White Harbour might well be a ruin. Back ourselves up, with connection to Whiteharbour so that he can check if wants to.
    -[X] "This is not a threat that can be parlayed with, only to be fought by every living being that wishes to survive on this world. If you do not believe me," this is not a judging statement, simply advice, "ask Dusk-Dancer of the Long Night and those who came from the North to bring it down upon the world." More foundational work.
    -[X] "So as any who cares for the peoples of Westeros, I have acted to secure them from what I see as the most lethal of all threats rising to strike them down. To do that, I must support the Night's Watch, and there are limits to what I can do in that without at least the acceptance of Lord Stark. But aid was needed, aid that I could not see coming from any other place, and so it was given." Our agreement with Lord Stark allows us to support the Watch, which is part of his domain. Nothing more.
    -[X] "I have done as much in the Crownlands and Vale against those truly hellish foes, and in other places too in battle against other foes of mankind. Again, aid was needed, and with none offering it, I could do little less than act. As close as we can get to pointing out that the Crown has done basically nothing to secure Westeros against supernatural threats. Yes, it does matter.
    -[X] "The Reach has needed my attention least so far, both because your most local supernatural entities are rarely accommodating of guests seeking to take what they see as theirs. And you have your own heroes too, in the Green Knight and those who protect Oldtown." This is phrased as a compliment, but there's an edge to it. The Fae might have helped keep the Reach safe, but they never give anything freely.
    -[X] "I'm not trying to reward people right now. I'm trying to ensure that the Seven Kingdoms can continue to exist."
    -[X] "If you wish, my Lord, I could show you proof of this. My realm is but a heartbeat away if you would trust my word to keep to responsibilities of a host as you have done for myself, and there is much there that could prove my words more than any oath might." Get him to come see what we've created and why. If he asks for our word of safe passage, we will give it.
    [X] The Fey offered you your son. The old gods offered me my mother. Others things have happened since that has cemented my original bargain with the old gods but in the beginning it was simple they gave me back my mother.
    [X] Sit him down, ironically pour him a stiff drink, and explain the Ice Zombie apocalypse. Get him a copy of Rina's book. You are diplomancing the North because it's hily beneficial that the North be intact for the Long Night.
    -[X] We have not forgotten that the Reach answered the call to arms. We are merely disappointed that the ones who Rose highest under the dragon banner chose to wield their loyal bannermen as they did.
    --[X] Everyone is inherently failable. Genuinely misinterpreting one's duty can happen, and is forgivable. Willfully doing so, however, is treason. We are still pondering if the Tyrell's undecisiviness was genuine failure or willfull treason, if he catches our drift. It's not as if we've hidden where one might find us to present allegiance and explain themselves, either.
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Duesal said:
Yeah, and if Willas works his way up in the Imperium he'll be rewarded for it, we'll have to see.

But as it stands, it makes no sense to trust House Tyrell in their continued position as Lord Paramounts of the Reach. They have shown themselves to be untrustworthy, and worse, not cautious at all when dealing with the fey. It is insanity to allow that house to remain in power considering the mess that Mace has gotten them into with the deal to get the crown.

They'll be fine at the end of it, they just won't be Lord Paramounts and they'll have quite a bit less land. Us having disdain for them doesn't mean they're going to be wiped out.
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We really should go and have a chat with him. Olenna too. I want to know who's responsible for the whole mess in the Reach.

We shouldn't be making any concrete decisions until we have more information.
 
Snowfire said:
And if that is the case, we can consider some changes. But we don't have enough data, and hyperbole at this point isn't helpful to anyone.
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Hyperbole? You probably need to besiege and storm several castles in stormland just to make a secure supply route to feed your insanely fuck huge army on medieval logistic while besieging storm's wind.
 
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Snowfire said:
@DragonParadox I think we've got consensus here.
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OK then vote closed. Let's wrap this up.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Dec 25, 2018 at 2:14 PM, finished with 191 posts and 21 votes.
  • [X] Death in Winter
    -[X] "Magic has awakened everywhere, my lord. The Fey, while not harmless by any measure, do not seek the death of all that breathes. There are creatures beyond the wall that do, and even now they prepare for the coming of Winter." Building from the same place that he understands, connecting the Fae to the Others in ideal.
    -[X] "I do not speak of tales in this, I speak of the reasons for which the Wall was built and the Night Watch founded. I have fought those creatures in the North, creatures of undeath and corrupted Fae magic. Without my presence, White Harbour might well be a ruin. Back ourselves up, with connection to Whiteharbour so that he can check if wants to.
    -[X] "This is not a threat that can be parlayed with, only to be fought by every living being that wishes to survive on this world. If you do not believe me," this is not a judging statement, simply advice, "ask Dusk-Dancer of the Long Night and those who came from the North to bring it down upon the world." More foundational work.
    -[X] "So as any who cares for the peoples of Westeros, I have acted to secure them from what I see as the most lethal of all threats rising to strike them down. To do that, I must support the Night's Watch, and there are limits to what I can do in that without at least the acceptance of Lord Stark. But aid was needed, aid that I could not see coming from any other place, and so it was given." Our agreement with Lord Stark allows us to support the Watch, which is part of his domain. Nothing more.
    -[X] "I have done as much in the Crownlands and Vale against those truly hellish foes, and in other places too in battle against other foes of mankind. Again, aid was needed, and with none offering it, I could do little less than act. As close as we can get to pointing out that the Crown has done basically nothing to secure Westeros against supernatural threats. Yes, it does matter.
    -[X] "The Reach has needed my attention least so far, both because your most local supernatural entities are rarely accommodating of guests seeking to take what they see as theirs. And you have your own heroes too, in the Green Knight and those who protect Oldtown." This is phrased as a compliment, but there's an edge to it. The Fae might have helped keep the Reach safe, but they never give anything freely.
    -[X] "I'm not trying to reward people right now. I'm trying to ensure that the Seven Kingdoms can continue to exist."
    -[X] "If you wish, my Lord, I could show you proof of this. My realm is but a heartbeat away if you would trust my word to keep to responsibilities of a host as you have done for myself, and there is much there that could prove my words more than any oath might." Get him to come see what we've created and why. If he asks for our word of safe passage, we will give it.
    [X] The Fey offered you your son. The old gods offered me my mother. Others things have happened since that has cemented my original bargain with the old gods but in the beginning it was simple they gave me back my mother.
    [X] Death in Winter
    [X] Sit him down, ironically pour him a stiff drink, and explain the Ice Zombie apocalypse. Get him a copy of Rina's book. You are diplomancing the North because it's hily beneficial that the North be intact for the Long Night.
    -[X] We have not forgotten that the Reach answered the call to arms. We are merely disappointed that the ones who Rose highest under the dragon banner chose to wield their loyal bannermen as they did.
    --[X] Everyone is inherently failable. Genuinely misinterpreting one's duty can happen, and is forgivable. Willfully doing so, however, is treason. We are still pondering if the Tyrell's undecisiviness was genuine failure or willfull treason, if he catches our drift. It's not as if we've hidden where one might find us to present allegiance and explain themselves, either.
    -[X] "I have done as much in the Crownlands and Vale against those truly hellish foes, and in other places too in battle against other foes of mankind. Again, aid was needed, and with none offering it, I could do little less than act. As close as we can get to pointing out that the Crown has done basically nothing to secure Westeros against supernatural threats. Yes, it does matter.
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Paradosi said:
We really should go and have a chat with him. Olenna too. I want to know who's responsible for the whole mess in the Reach.

We shouldn't be making any concrete decisions until we have more information.
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I'm willing to investigate, but the Reach is definitely getting split up for ease of administration if nothing else, regardless of whatever we decide with how much of their power will be stripped from House Tyrell.
 
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Duesal said:
I'm willing to investigate, but the Reach is definitely getting slit up for ease of administration if nothing else, regardless of whatever we decide with how much of their power will be stripped from House Tyrell.
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Honestly, we might as well rearrange the whole of Westerlands, the Reach, the Riverlands, the Stormlands and the Crownlands.

It's only the North, the Vale, the Iron Islands and Dorne that are concrete, and that's due to simple geography(and because trying to get the North to follow someone that's not a Stark would be like pulling teeth).
 
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tarrangar said:
More than 300 years of gods being almost unable to contact their faithful, I doubt the Seven planned for their faithful to dismiss such threats, their faith just mutated while they were unable to communicate.
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Which sings somewhat hollow because mages are still somehow seen as being sinful monsters and second class citizens in their eyes. Also because you know somehow we are the bigger threat than the nigh apocalyptic beings that are coming from the North as show by that interlude. Any magic not from the Seven is blasphemous so it doesn't surprise me that this faith encouraged false knowledge while their gods got muted. Also the same gods who slaughtered the First Men and cut down the weirwoods. And we know how good those are. I mean honesty why defend them and suggest they are at all supporting of magic after trying to kill the gods of magic. I wouldn't be surprised if the Seven went "not my problem" with the Long Night centuries ago.
 
Paradosi said:
Honestly, we might as well rearrange the whole of Westerlands, the Reach, the Riverlands, the Stormlands and the Crownlands.

It's only the North, the Vale and Dorne that are concrete, and that's due to simple geography(and because trying to get the North to follow someone that's not a Stark would be like pulling teeth).
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I'm pretty sure we are rearranging all of them.
 
You know I'm really curious about Yi Ti now. I was looking up the Long Night on the wiki earlier to see how much of info has been passed down to Westeros through the ages, and saw how they stated Yi Ti might have started the Long Night with their Blood Betrayal. Also just wondering but is the black stone that's mentioned within the article the bilestone that we collected from various places?
 
Duesal said:
I'm pretty sure we are rearranging all of them.
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Hm?

Like, I get the wisdom in rearranging the mess that is those five, but the borders of the North, the Vale, the Iron Islands and Dorne are pretty concrete, what with them being based on geography.

I suppose that might change if we plan to "terraform" the land?
 
Paradosi said:
Hm?

Like, I get the wisdom in rearranging the mess that is those five, but the borders of the North, the Vale, the Iron Islands and Dorne are pretty concrete, what with them being based on geography.

I suppose that might change if we plan to "terraform" the land?
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I think that was agreement to your 'all but these three' comment.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
I don't think there's a plan for the North. We know we plan on eating the Riverlands and maybe the Rock.
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Paradosi said:
Hm?

Like, I get the wisdom in rearranging the mess that is those five, but the borders of the North, the Vale, the Iron Islands and Dorne are pretty concrete, what with them being based on geography.

I suppose that might change if we plan to "terraform" the land?
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Snowfire said:
I think that was agreement to your 'all but these three' comment.
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@Snowfire has the right of it.

The Riverlands, Stormlands, and Westerlands are all getting rearranged after the dust settles.
Paradosi said:
Ah. Well, if that's it, then yeah, who's gonna rule what can be decided after we decide on what the borders are going to be in the first place. Is there even going to be "the Reach" afterwards?
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If you call a Reach split in two the same thing then yes.
 
I don't have firm plans on how to redraw the map yet either. We should make nice with as many lower lords as possible to keep our options open for now.
 
We should take some time to go and poke our nose into the Reach, make some contacts(House Tarly and so on), see just what's going on in Highgarden, see what's up with that whole conclave.

Do we know when that's going to take place? We should probably go ourselves, perhaps as Dywen?
 
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Duesal said:
That'd be sending them into Valyria, though. They're not going to be strong enough to handle that for quite a while.
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I was thinking that they'd be part of a Main Party expedition and have the specific goal of that Side Quest with a bit of additional support as needed.

Snowfire said:
The Starks had valid reason to rebel if any did. The Baratheons, I simply don't know.
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Aerys wanted Robert's head on a pike for Paranoia Reasons iirc, and Lyassa and Robert were engaged when The Prince Who Was Stupid kidnapped her.

Duesal said:
But as it stands, it makes no sense to trust House Tyrell in their continued position as Lord Paramounts of the Reach. They have shown themselves to be untrustworthy, and worse, not cautious at all when dealing with the fey. It is insanity to allow that house to remain in power considering the mess that Mace has gotten them into with the deal to get the crown.
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It's possible that this entire situation isn't the shitshow that we're expecting of it.

Unlikely, but possible.

If that's the case, then we'll likely be more than happy to leave the Tyrells in place for proving to be so un-Tyrellish that "Remove Tyrell" was confirmed before we ever returned to Westerosi.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Yeah I would say Roberts biggest mistake was not killing us sooner. That or marrying that shrew of a woman Cersei. Or the debt that we have to pay back. I am curious. Is the Iron bank still shelling out money to the Iron Throne?
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I think the Iron Bank may have started to put some...um...pressure on them for repayment. Purely out of business concerns, of course. Nothing to do with them being our business partners.
 
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