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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I still don't like it tbh. Moving away from the theoretical means she won't be nearly as able to conceptualize and understand magic in the fundamental sense. That means she'll be less likely to experiment to create new magic, and less of her knowledge will be transferred back to the Grey College. These consequences will hurt Mathilde, both as a mage and as an agent of Stirland.
 
[X] Yes. Don't be unrealistic. The paper communicates the concept and construction of Mathilde's Mystical Matrix without inducing unconsciousness or migraines. That's a win. Take the win.
 
veekie said:
It literally says on the trait she'd rather do anything else. Anything at all.
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Appreciates doing other things is not the same as "hates academic curiosity".

Omegahugger said:
Technically speaking, it is only the academia part that she hates.
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It doesn't say hate. Please stop overreacting and reading hate into it. Why do you hate literacy? :wink:

WorldSlayer said:
The expected number of actions to be spent following Van Hal's orders is from 2/6 actions to 4/6 actions. Basically 33-66% is expected and we're at 68%.
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I think it is extremely optimistic to count some of those as arming yourself, particularly Improve Paper.

Guile said:
Attaché Paperwork: The Intelligence Attachés are your biggest expense by far - see if you can have them paid for by the Army of Stirland instead.
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This does not strike me as reasonable for reasons which have been rehashed repeatedly. TLDR Gustav didn't like them in the first place, Abelhelm doesn't want us imposing more expenses on him now.
 
Exmorri said:
Appreciates doing other things is not the same as "hates academic curiosity".


It doesn't say hate. Please stop overreacting and reading hate into it. Why do you hate literacy? :wink:
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When you appreciate getting chewed on by a vampire compare to academia, you hate academia.

... Or you love trashy romance novels, so maybe that was the wrong example.
 
I could come around to the idea of 'sit on the paper for now, we won't be going for Magister while the Purge is on so there is no rush to submit' but the phrasing demanding nothing less than sublime profundity seems as dangerous as people feel Practical and a distaste for scholastic study would be.

@BoneyM Are whichever of the two options wins really, evocatively descriptive of Mathildes thinking? I know Practical gains a trait and so probably is, but does the delay publishing one describe Mathildes own internal monologue in the same way?
 
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Alratan the Libris Necris was written from the perspective of Count crazy Manfred von Cerstain. Of course he is going to talk up vampires as a way for people to "save" there souls from chaos and do ton of other things. I have seen people reference his in universe writings in other quests and am wondering why people are taking the crazy vamp at his word. Just because he is "smart" does not mean you take him at his word.

Guys we are a wizard of the Grey Order first and foremost. If we are going to make great strides with magic then we can not afford to dislike at worst the theoretical side of studying and working with magic. Plus as a human mage we can put nothing less then our best towards all facets of magic or bad stuff could happen. If we want to get the most out of this project we do not want trait being offered, if we want to make the most out of the 'Qhaysh Juice' and figure it out what it truly is, we do not want this trait. The way the paper is now people could make a lot of mistakes trying to replicate what we figured out because they misunderstand a page or just get bored with how dry it is and the spell they are working on falls apart explosively if they are a bright wizard for example. That is the reason I want to make it better, the better it is the less comrades we put in danger because they made a mistake with something that is all about the repetitive casting of spells in a setting were messing up with magic can do a lot worse then kill you. If you do not want to spend more time on it now that is fine, just sit on it so we can come back to it latter because it is not like it is something we have to publish now.

[X] No. Mathilde's Mystical Matrix is worthy of a paper of sublime profundity, that communicates the earthshaking possibilities of the spell with elegance.
[X][Action] Plan Pressing Onwards
-[X][Intel] Gossipmongers: Julia's previous attempt had no result but the enrichment of various hangers-on of the Flensburg courts. Perhaps this was just poor luck; perhaps she should try again. (NEW-ish)
-[X][Watch] In Wissenland, there are a number of techniques in use to derive saltpeter from urine. It would take a great deal more effort than selling to tanneries, but saltpeter could be exported to Nuln for fantastic profit, or used to start gunpowder production in Stirland.
-[X][Personal] Attach yourself to the army so you can join the hunt for the Singing King (specify which regiment to join, or general staff to avoid the thick of the fighting). (NEW-ish)
--[X] 4th Division
-[X][Personal] The watchtowers on the walls was an uninspired choice for watching the Ulgu in the world, perhaps you can think of something different. (???)
--[X] Ranald's Blessing
 
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Exmorri said:
This does not strike me as reasonable for reasons which have been rehashed repeatedly. TLDR Gustav didn't like them in the first place, Abelhelm doesn't want us imposing more expenses on him now.
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I've since written a new vote that doesn't involve the attache program, but rather trying to find out WHY Julia failed so hard in Flensburg.

But just to beat that dead horse a bit, the attache program costs -120g. Based on our retired informant costs, that's like the costs of a couple dozen soldiers at most. I'm not actually even sure where the costs are coming from; training squad leaders to read, so they can fill out the forms?

Stirland has a standing army of 40,000 (currently minus 8,000). Any way I look at it I can only assume Gustav has a standing budget hundreds or thousands of times the size of ours.
 
Stewart9 said:
The way the paper is now people could make a lot of mistakes trying to replicate what we figured out because they misunderstand a page
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This goes for literally all magic in Warhammer. It goes for Mathilde learning more spells too. It is not a particular argument against our paper or any paper.

Stewart9 said:
or just get bored with how dry it is
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We already spent two actions (and 20 gold) improving it from dry to serviceable.

Guile said:
I've since written a new vote that doesn't involve the attache program, but rather trying to find out WHY Julia failed so hard in Flensburg.
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OK.
[X] Yes. Don't be unrealistic. The paper communicates the concept and construction of Mathilde's Mystical Matrix without inducing unconsciousness or migraines. That's a win. Take the win.
[X] Plan Snake Juice

Guile said:
But just to beat that dead horse a bit, the attache program costs -120g. Based on our retired informant costs, that's like the costs of a couple dozen soldiers at most. I'm not actually even sure where the costs are coming from; training squad leaders to read, so they can fill out the forms?
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Attaches in many squads, I guess? I certainly hope for the war to finish soon, so we can stop paying those costs.
 
[X] No. Mathilde's Mystical Matrix is worthy of a paper of sublime profundity, that communicates the earthshaking possibilities of the spell with elegance.
 
[X] Yes. Don't be unrealistic. The paper communicates the concept and construction of Mathilde's Mystical Matrix without inducing unconsciousness or migraines. That's a win. Take the win.

[X] Plan Singing King Hunt + Enchantment [X] Plan Singing King Hunt + Enchantment

Flips~
 
Exmorri said:
I think it is extremely optimistic to count some of those as arming yourself, particularly Improve Paper.
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Which is why improve paper is not among those counted as arming yourself.

Worldslayer said:
So I've grabbed the list that Exmorri made of actions that we've done over the last 3 turns. If we include the organizational actions in the list then the actions that can be considered training for the war or improving the watch consist of 7/7 actions for turn 11, 4/7 actions for turn 12 and 4/8 actions for turn 13. This means that 15/22 or nearly 70% of our actions have been spent following Van Hal's orders.

The expected number of actions to be spent following Van Hal's orders is from 2/6 actions to 4/6 actions. Basically 33-66% is expected and we're at 68%.

Turn 11 said:
Organizational: Expand Attaches, Expand Gong Farmers
Personal: Learn from Gustav
Study Undead
Research Spell Matrix
Learn Take No Heed
Learn Burning Shadows​
Turn '12' AKA Purge 1-3 said:
Organizational: Become information broker
Personal: Find new Watch leader (Jack Albright)
Write down Asarnil's stories
Research Spell Matrix
Join the Purge for a while
Investigate Blasphemy of Blood
Write Paper, Part 1​
Turn '13' AKA Purge 4-6 said:
Organizational: Hire more information brokers, soothe complaints
Personal: Write Paper, Part 2
Train Learning
Visit Bundebad
Write Paper, Part 3
Improve Paper, relaxing in hot water
Improve Paper, meditating on Ulgu​
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Green text is directly related to Weber arming herself, improving the spy network, or general intelligence gathering. 15/22 actions
Yellow text is effectively personal but can potentially be justified at a stretch (Placating the dragon prince, looking into potentially dangerous magic phenomena, improving magical abilities) as a spy master she can probably come up with crap to make it sound like it was worth her time but I didn't count them. 3/22 actions
Normal text is can't be justified at all and is basically the options that were related to writing a paper or relaxing in a hot spring. 4/22 actions


As for the paper. Well I don't really have any new arguments to bring to the table. We don't have a deadline of any sort so I don't see why anyone is in a rush to publish it right now. Imagine sending out your paper 6 months before it was due simply because you'd managed to make something readable. Sure it would work as technically done but you've got plenty of time to wait until you feel like coming back to it with fresh eyes and new ideas and fixing up those issues that you couldn't see before. If she doesn't come up with anything new and has a pressing desire to publish then she can simply go ahead and use what she has since it's all nice and ready to go it's not like holding onto it is going to cost her anything.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Sinsystems on Feb 26, 2018 at 3:46 AM, finished with 5966 posts and 79 votes.
  • [X] Yes. Don't be unrealistic. The paper communicates the concept and construction of Mathilde's Mystical Matrix without inducing unconsciousness or migraines. That's a win. Take the win.
    [X] No. Mathilde's Mystical Matrix is worthy of a paper of sublime profundity, that communicates the earthshaking possibilities of the spell with elegance.
    [X] Plan Singing King Hunt + Enchantment
    -[X][Intel] Gossipmongers: Julia's previous attempt had no result but the enrichment of various hangers-on of the Flensburg courts. Perhaps this was just poor luck; perhaps she should try again. (NEW-ish)
    -[X][Watch] In Wissenland, there are a number of techniques in use to derive saltpeter from urine. It would take a great deal more effort than selling to tanneries, but saltpeter could be exported to Nuln for fantastic profit, or used to start gunpowder production in Stirland.
    -[X][Personal] Attach yourself to the army so you can join the hunt for the Singing King (specify which regiment to join, or general staff to avoid the thick of the fighting). (NEW-ish)
    --[X] General Staff
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X][Personal] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
    [X][Action] Plan Pressing Onwards
    [X][Action] Plan Pressing Onwards
    -[X][Intel] Gossipmongers: Julia's previous attempt had no result but the enrichment of various hangers-on of the Flensburg courts. Perhaps this was just poor luck; perhaps she should try again. (NEW-ish)
    -[X][Watch] In Wissenland, there are a number of techniques in use to derive saltpeter from urine. It would take a great deal more effort than selling to tanneries, but saltpeter could be exported to Nuln for fantastic profit, or used to start gunpowder production in Stirland.
    -[X][Personal] Attach yourself to the army so you can join the hunt for the Singing King (specify which regiment to join, or general staff to avoid the thick of the fighting). (NEW-ish)
    --[X] 4th Division
    -[X][Personal] The watchtowers on the walls was an uninspired choice for watching the Ulgu in the world, perhaps you can think of something different. (???)
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] Plan Snake Juice
    -[X] Yes. Don't be unrealistic. The paper communicates the concept and construction of Mathilde's Mystical Matrix without inducing unconsciousness or migraines. That's a win. Take the win.
    -[X] Write-in: Try to find out where, how and why your money drained away into the coffers of Flensberg court affiliates like tossing coins down a well. Enemy action seems likely, rather than your entire new network deciding to turn on you without prompting.
    -[x] In Wissenland, there are a number of techniques in use to derive saltpeter from urine. It would take a great deal more effort than selling to tanneries, but saltpeter could be exported to Nuln for fantastic profit, or used to start gunpowder production in Stirland.
    -[X] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
    -[X] Qhaysh Juice: Whatever it is, it's dripping out of the box at a steady rate. You've got several gallons of the stuff and it's still coming out. It's got to be good for something.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] Plan Money troubles and Ostermark
    -[X] Formalize and organize the payments people make for the Gong Farmers to perform their service, as well as having the Watch start enforcing existing laws against dumping human waste in the street or the Stir.
    -[X] Headhunt administrators from other organizations in Stirland.
    -[X] Getting To Know You: Spend time with one of your fellow councillors, your liege, or any of the other important figures you've come to know, offering your help in their tasks and generally getting a feel for them (choose one).
    --[X] Stewardship adviser.
    -[X] Something apparently quite similar to the Purge of the Haunted Hills is going on in Ostermark's southern regions; you could inspect goings-on up there yourself.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] Plan Singing King Hunt + Enchantment
    -[X][Intel] Gossipmongers: Julia's previous attempt had no result but the enrichment of various hangers-on of the Flensburg courts. Perhaps this was just poor luck; perhaps she should try again. (NEW-ish)
    -[X][Watch] In Wissenland, there are a number of techniques in use to derive saltpeter from urine. It would take a great deal more effort than selling to tanneries, but saltpeter could be exported to Nuln for fantastic profit, or used to start gunpowder production in Stirland.
    -[X][Personal] Attach yourself to the army so you can join the hunt for the Singing King (specify which regiment to join, or general staff to avoid the thick of the fighting). (NEW-ish)
    --[X] 4th Division
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X][Personal] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
    [X] plan information blowup
    -[X] Gossipmongers: Julia's previous attempt had no result but the enrichment of various hangers-on of the Flensburg courts. Perhaps this was just poor luck; perhaps she should try again.(NEW-ish)
    -[X] Something apparently quite similar to the Purge of the Haunted Hills is going on in Ostermark's southern regions; you could inspect goings-on up there yourself.
    -[X] The Dwarves have crossed into the Empire, pursuing the greenskins into the woods. Perhaps you could tag along.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] In Wissenland, there are a number of techniques in use to derive saltpeter from urine. It would take a great deal more effort than selling to tanneries, but saltpeter could be exported to Nuln for fantastic profit, or used to start gunpowder production in Stirland.
    [x] Plan fund-amentals of research
    -[x] Trade Delegation: Convince Wilhelmina and Markus to partner your network with the EIC based on the value of market information.
    -[x] In Wissenland, there are a number of techniques in use to derive saltpeter from urine. It would take a great deal more effort than selling to tanneries, but saltpeter could be exported to Nuln for fantastic profit, or used to start gunpowder production in Stirland.
    -[X] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
    -[x] Qhaysh Skunkworks: It would take careful study to unlock the secrets of the liquid. It would take considerably less time to find out if it can be made to burn, or explode, or do something militarily useful.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] Plan Back to Work
    -[X] Gossipmongers: Julia's previous attempt had no result but the enrichment of various hangers-on of the Flensburg courts. Perhaps this was just poor luck; perhaps she should try again.
    -[X] Expand the ranks of the Watch, so that they're able to start covering even the poorer parts of their covered area.
    -[X] Something apparently quite similar to the Purge of the Haunted Hills is going on in Ostermark's southern regions; you could inspect goings-on up there yourself.
    -[X] The Dwarves have crossed into the Empire, pursuing the greenskins into the woods. Perhaps you could tag along.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] Plan Stop Losing Money
    -[X] Gossipmongers: Julia's previous attempt had no result but the enrichment of various hangers-on of the Flensburg courts. Perhaps this was just poor luck; perhaps she should try again.(NEW-ish)
    -[X] Formalize and organize the payments people make for the Gong Farmers to perform their service, as well as having the Watch start enforcing existing laws against dumping human waste in the street or the Stir.
    -[X] The watchtowers on the walls was an uninspired choice for watching the Ulgu in the world, perhaps you can think of something different. (???)
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Information Network: Work alongside to Julia to administer the network. Choose another Organizational Action for the Network.
    --[X] Trade Delegation: Convince Wilhelmina and Markus to partner your network with the EIC based on the value of market information.
    [X] Yes. Don't be unrealistic.
    [X] Plan Compromise For No Votes
    -[X] Gossipmongers: Julia's previous attempt had no result but the enrichment of various hangers-on of the Flensburg courts. Perhaps this was just poor luck; perhaps she should try again.
    -[x] In Wissenland, there are a number of techniques in use to derive saltpeter from urine. It would take a great deal more effort than selling to tanneries, but saltpeter could be exported to Nuln for fantastic profit, or used to start gunpowder production in Stirland.
    -[X] Diggy Diggy Hole, Remixed: You're getting sick of having workmen tramping in and out of your abode. Recruit an entire team and personally oversee them to clear out all of the reachable portions of the Palace-Shrine and be done with it. (-personal gold)
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
    [X] No. Mathilde's Mystical Matrix is worthy of a paper of sublime profundity, that communicates the earthshaking possibilities of the spell with elegance.
    [X] Plan Singing King Hunt + Enchantment [X] Plan Singing King Hunt + Enchantment
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[X] No. Mathilde's Mystical Matrix is worthy of a paper of sublime profundity, that communicates the earthshaking possibilities of the spell with elegance.

I'm going to switch over, on the condition that we take a break from the paper and don't try to force it through. Lets let it rest until the end of the purge please.
 
[X] Yes. Don't be unrealistic. The paper communicates the concept and construction of Mathilde's Mystical Matrix without inducing unconsciousness or migraines. That's a win. Take the win.

[X] Plan Singing King Hunt + Enchantment
 
[X] No. Mathilde's Mystical Matrix is worthy of a paper of sublime profundity, that communicates the earthshaking possibilities of the spell with elegance.
 
We're just a good roll away from a great mystery trait. Don't throw this away guys, we can leave it until we have the time.
 
HanEmpire said:
We're just a good roll away from a great mystery trait.
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We are pretty much always just a good roll away from a great mystery trait on everything. For sufficiently high values of "good", naturally.

We are also a bad roll away from a horrible mystery trait like:
Obsessive Perfectionist: This character spends a great deal of time tinkering with things that already work. -1 Action/turn
Ivory Tower: This character is devoted to study at the expense of everything else. +1 Learning, -1 Diplomacy, -1 Martial, -1 Intrigue, -1 Stewardship
Reclusive Hermit: This character avoids other humans. -1 Diplomacy, -1 Intrigue.
 
Exmorri said:
We are also a bad roll away from a horrible mystery trait like:
Obsessive Perfectionist: This character spends a great deal of time tinkering with things that already work. -1 Action/turn
Ivory Tower: This character is devoted to study at the expense of everything else. +1 Learning, -1 Diplomacy, -1 Martial, -1 Intrigue, -1 Stewardship
Reclusive Hermit: This character avoids other humans. -1 Diplomacy, -1 Intrigue.
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This runs conter to @BoneyM's comment:
BoneyM said:
- Mathilde's time spent working on the paper has twisted her perception of things. As it exists now, it is a perfectly acceptable means of communicating Mathilde's Mystical Matrix, and a solid foundation for a Magisterial bid. What it isn't, thanks to your uncharacteristically mediocre rolls, is the source of the amazing mystical trait I know that some of you are hoping for.
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Unless @BoneyM was being a total dick looking to trim the playerbase by some two digits, I don't think that's likely.

Plus as the ninja said we can just drop the paper for a bit to remove that possibility.
 
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