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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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So we're spending a month to go tell Van Hal about his countess a couple months early, then spending an action relaxing in the hot springs as part of a plan to overwork ourselves with three actions?

This seems at cross purposes with itself.
 
Actually, I agree with Guile quite strongly in fact.
That does seem fairly weird, the telling Van Hal and telling him the way we are planning to now seems good, but telling him now seems weird.
If we are focused on our paper, then we are focused on our paper. Afterwards, we can do something else (install our enchanting-supplies or something, just to remind us that magic is wonderful and not just writing papers?).

Yes I'm projecting as if I was Mathilde and writing some paper on maths with enchanting representing teaching.

So, new vote for me:
[X] Plan Jace
-[X] Get atop your horse, find a place rich in Ulgu, and play hermit for a month while hoping that the energies you're so familiar with will inspire you. (???)
--[X] Wurtbad was once famous for hospitality, and it still has a wonderful selection of high-class inns with actual hot running water. Book yourself into the Golden Eagle Inn and allow yourself to be pampered in the hopes that it will let the words flow. (costs personal funds)
---[X] Ranald's Blessing
-[X] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
 
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Really not happy with doubling down on the paper, nor ignoring it entirely. What about getting that lab set up at last:

[X] Plan Wizard Habitats
-[X] Get atop your horse, find a place rich in Ulgu, and play hermit for a month while hoping that the energies you're so familiar with will inspire you.
--[X] Ranald's Blessing
-[X] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
-[X] Countess Gabriella von Bundebad implied quite a lot, and in such a way that it's clear she's trying to needle you into action. But you don't know what. If inaction isn't the correct move, what is? (write in; may take an action) (NEW)
--[X] Write in: Tell Van Hal about the conversation. Advise that, as the situation is apparently stable and we have ears in the city, it can probably wait until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly.

Guile said:
So we're spending a month to go tell Van Hal about his countess a couple months early, then spending an action relaxing in the hot springs as part of a plan to overwork ourselves with three actions?
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Merely telling Van Hal about Gabriella is a free action, as I understand it. Investigating her further or doing specific stuff in her city would be a proper action.
(And raises some odd turn mechanic/continuity questions if Van Hal wants us to investigate her further; the first opportunity we'll have to respond to that is two months later. Don't think too hard about it.)

JaceAoT said:
So, new vote for me:
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That should probably be in plan format if you want to benefit from the autotally and support votes for [*] plan name.
 
Exmorri said:
Really not happy with doubling down on the paper, nor ignoring it entirely. What about getting that lab set up at last:
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It's not a terrible vote or anything, but I'd really rather have something concrete to report to Van Hal when he asks 'what have you been doing to prepare for the war' that isn't 'relaxing in a hot spring' or 'getting the beakers to line up just right with the alembics'.

S'why I voted to sword more.
 
-[X] Countess Gabriella von Bundebad implied quite a lot, and in such a way that it's clear she's trying to needle you into action. But you don't know what. If inaction isn't the correct move, what is? (write in; may take an action) (NEW)
--[X] Write in: Tell Van Hal about the conversation. Advise that, as the situation is apparently stable and we have ears in the city, it can probably wait until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly.
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This action set seems... like it has a lot of potential to go wrong. We're the intrigue advisor, right? Our job is to investigate stuff like this. Okay, there's a war on, but we're not actually participating in that war in any significant way even though we told Van Hal we would; we went to the front for one season and have basically ignored it since. Heck, there was just a giant battle with tens of thousands of undead in it and we didn't bother to show up. Surely he is aware of this- if not our actual movements, then at least whether we've generally been on the front or not.

So what exactly is this "until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly" business? While the purge is ongoing, we aren't spending any time on the purge! When it's over we will still not be spending any time on the purge. There is functionally no difference in terms of whether Mathilde has time and attention to spare. Yet, when this is obviously an important intrigue-related related project, which could potentially make a significant difference in this military operation and the ultimate state of Sylvania afterward, our line to Van Hal is "I'm not going to bother right now"?

Maybe Van Hal, the undead-hating witch hunter, will be slightly displeased that his spymaster doesn't consider it important or urgent that he's probably leaving a vampire in charge of one of his army's key logistical nodes during a major military operation?
 
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DarkLight140 said:
This action set seems... like it has a lot of potential to go wrong. We're the intrigue advisor, right? [snipped for length]
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she's implying she's a vampire but as I understand it, becoming a vampire results in your soul becoming Dhar. which we saw none of with our mage-sight. so there are three choices here: one, we've got a woman who is pretending to be a vampire because she's a young woman who needs some legitimacy, and in Sylvania being a vampire is legit. two, we've got a woman who is something other than vampire because her soul isn't Dhar. three, she's a vampire but has some way of hiding that from mage-sight.

if either of the latter two are the case, we do not have time/power/attention for this. the situation is stable, we have a lot of assets tied up in the Purge. it can wait until that's done. if it's the first one, we can have a stern talk with her later or something. either way, we need to tell our boss because we don't want him taking uninformed action if he hears about her potentially being a vampire. we also don't want him thinking we're incompetent. "hey I realize this looks bad, and it might be bad, but it'll keep until we're done with our other task. I'm keeping an eye on it.".
 
fallintolife said:
if either of the latter two are the case, we do not have time/power/attention for this. the situation is stable, we have a lot of assets tied up in the Purge. it can wait until that's done. if it's the first one, we can have a stern talk with her later or something. either way, we need to tell our boss because we don't want him taking uninformed action if he hears about her potentially being a vampire. we also don't want him thinking we're incompetent. "hey I realize this looks bad, and it might be bad, but it'll keep until we're done with our other task. I'm keeping an eye on it.".
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Here's the thing, though: While Stirland has a lot of assets tied up in the Purge, the same cannot be said for Mathilde. Her time/power/attention is measured in 1) subordinate organizations, which are not involved in the Purge except for the intelligence officers who wouldn't be part of this anyway, and 2) action slots, which she has refused to allocate to Purge-oriented activities on a consistent basis. So saying "we're too busy for this" begs the question of "what, exactly, are you doing that could possibly be more important than this, because I know you're certainly not involved in my Purge project".

And we simply don't have a good answer, because "I'm working on my Magister's project" is not, in fact, something that the ruler of Stirland considers as important as the prospect of the person in charge of his key logistical points being a vampire or vampire-involved. This vote dodges having Van Hal think that we're incompetent by telling him outright that we don't give a shit about actually doing our job.

There are things that we could say to him which would excuse not taking immediate action. "She obviously wants us to take rash action, so let's not do anything lest we trigger some kind of trap." "I need to go confer with the Colleges and figure out if a vampire could hide their nature from my mage sight and if so what it would imply about them." "I want to go gather rumors about everything this woman has ever done before we decide what to do." "We simply can't afford the risk of making her go hostile by moving against her and she said that she's content to benefit from our actions without influencing them; I'm taking her at her word, calling this a 'lesser evil' situation, and leaving it at that." Anything, really, that would show that we've assessed the situation and have a recommended course of action.

But we're not saying any of that. What we're saying is "the situation is apparently stable and we have ears in the city, it can probably wait until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly", which can be read as, "this is definitely a problem that merits attention, but right now I have more important things to do than look into this". But what are these more important things which are preventing us from having time to investigate properly, how are they tied into the purge, and will Van Hal agree that they're more important? Answers in order: Our paper, it's got nothing to do with the Purge whatsoever (so we're lying by implication to Van Hal's face), and almost certainly no.
 
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Exmorri said:
Really not happy with doubling down on the paper, nor ignoring it entirely. What about getting that lab set up at last:

[X] Plan Wizard Habitats
-[X] Get atop your horse, find a place rich in Ulgu, and play hermit for a month while hoping that the energies you're so familiar with will inspire you.
--[X] Ranald's Blessing
-[X] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
-[X] Countess Gabriella von Bundebad implied quite a lot, and in such a way that it's clear she's trying to needle you into action. But you don't know what. If inaction isn't the correct move, what is? (write in; may take an action) (NEW)
--[X] Write in: Tell Van Hal about the conversation. Advise that, as the situation is apparently stable and we have ears in the city, it can probably wait until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly.


Merely telling Van Hal about Gabriella is a free action, as I understand it. Investigating her further or doing specific stuff in her city would be a proper action.
(And raises some odd turn mechanic/continuity questions if Van Hal wants us to investigate her further; the first opportunity we'll have to respond to that is two months later. Don't think too hard about it.)


That should probably be in plan format if you want to benefit from the autotally and support votes for [*] plan name.
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I've actually already made this exact same plan under the plan name [] Plan I'm totally working, honest.



DarkLight140 said:
Here's the thing, though: While Stirland has a lot of assets tied up in the Purge, the same cannot be said for Mathilde. Her time/power/attention is measured in 1) subordinate organizations, which are not involved in the Purge except for the intelligence officers who wouldn't be part of this anyway, and 2) action slots, which she has consistently refused to allocate to Purge-oriented activities on a consistent basis. So saying "we're too busy for this" begs the question of "what, exactly, are you doing that could possibly be more important than this, because I know you're certainly not involved in my Purge project".

And we simply don't have a good answer, because "I'm working on my Magister's project" is not, in fact, something that the ruler of Stirland considers as important as the prospect of the person in charge of his key logistical points being a vampire or vampire-involved. This vote dodges having Van Hal think that we're incompetent by telling him outright that we don't give a shit about actually doing our job.

There are things that we could say to him which would excuse not taking immediate action. "She obviously wants us to take rash action, so let's not do anything lest we trigger some kind of trap." "I need to go confer with the Colleges and figure out if a vampire could hide their nature from my mage sight and if so what it would imply about them." "I want to go gather rumors about everything this woman has ever done before we decide what to do." "We simply can't afford the risk of making her go hostile by moving against her and she said that she's content to benefit from our actions without influencing them; I'm taking her at her word, calling this a 'lesser evil' situation, and leaving it at that." Anything, really, that would show that we've assessed the situation and have a recommended course of action.

But we're not saying any of that. What we're saying is "the situation is apparently stable and we have ears in the city, it can probably wait until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly", which can be read as, "this is definitely a problem that merits attention, but right now I have more important things to do than look into this". But what are these more important things which are preventing us from having time to investigate properly, how are they tied into the purge, and will Van Hal agree that they're more important? Answers in order: Our paper, it's got nothing to do with the Purge whatsoever (so we're lying by implication to Van Hal's face), and almost certainly no.
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I'm pretty sure dealing with a 500+ year old vampire falls under the military's crap to deal with rather than the spy master. While it's possible she's actually just pretending to be a vampire we do have informants in the town which should be enough of an action for a spy master.

I agree that the wording you've used to explain to Van Hal seems better though.

Edit: Additionally I think this is really something that Van Hal should be dealing with personally. Either he'll decide that yes, vampires are acceptable in which case he's the only one qualified for diplomacy. Or he'll decide that no, vampires are not acceptable in which case as a veteran vampire hunter he's the most qualified to deal with removing her.

Regardless looking into her (asking for info from the college, getting Julia to find all the background info on her, having informants give information, occasionally turning up for tea at noon with a lots of greatswords) would take quite a bit of time to happen and would be something that would occur only if Van Hal chooses diplomacy and wants us to make sure she's being honest.
 
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Well, it sort of depends on Van Hal's view honestly. If his view is that all vampires are evil and cannot be trusted and will not be allowed as one of my subordinates, it's very much a right now issue because having one in a position of power at the army's back would spell disaster and he would want us to actually make sure she's a vampire so he can kill her before she takes action. If he's more open minded, it's still a right now issue because, again, vampire at the armies back, we need to discover it's intentions yesterday before there's sabotage.

Cause, you know, vampires are damn tricky, and if she is one and is an enemy the army could be walking into a trap. She could have a zombie army hiding in the sewers, waiting for us to pass by and then, boom, flanked between her and the Carnstein pretender. Supply train should be heading through her land pretty soon, or at least near by territory, it would not be hard at all for her to mess with it in a way that doesn't seem to be her fault and that would be devastating for us.

If we actually believe that she might a vampire then we are being criminally neglectful not looking into this further right this moment and it'll look real bad if we tell Van Hal about this, do nothing about it, and have her act against Stirland during this campaign. If there's even a chance of this being true then we have nothing more important going on then looking into her.
 
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[X] Throw yourself back into reclusion and goddamn stay there until the job is bloody well done.(takes two actions)
-[X] Ranald's Blessing
 
DarkLight140 said:
What we're saying is "the situation is apparently stable and we have ears in the city, it can probably wait until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly", which can be read as, "this is definitely a problem that merits attention, but right now I have more important things to do than look into this". But what are these more important things which are preventing us from having time to investigate properly, how are they tied into the purge, and will Van Hal agree that they're more important? Answers in order: Our paper, it's got nothing to do with the Purge whatsoever (so we're lying by implication to Van Hal's face), and almost certainly no.
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I disagree with you on the read. we explicitly noted that there was no Dhar in her. Dhar is a thing that's in vampires. therefore suggesting that either she's not a vampire, or something is going on that is not in our purview. as @King Arthur said, it's not actually our job. our job is to gather information and prevent information from being gathered on us. you want a vampire hunted, you get a vampire hunter. conveniently, we have a vampire hunter on hand. one that would presumably know if there's something a vampire could do to hide the Dhar in her. what I read us as saying is, "there's something weird going on here, but it doesn't look like it's urgent weird and it can probably wait".

King Arthur said:
If we actually believe that she might a vampire
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this is the bit that the rest of your argument hinges on. we came into this saying "if vampire, then Dhar". we did not find Dhar. so we are going to the actual expert, and telling him about it. that is the responsible next step here, and we intend on taking it. we are not a battle mage. we are not the one who has spent a lifetime hunting down undead. our boss was a career vampire hunter before he became an Elector Count. this is what he's good at, and we're offering advice, not declaring an ultimatum. if he says, "I want you to drop everything and focus on this" we're not going to ignore him just because we had plans. that is, presumably, why this choice uses an action. if it was just a pop-in "Hey, the lady of the house may or may not be a vampire, bye" that wouldn't need an actual action.
 
@BoneyM Quick question, does it look like the supply train is going to be moving through the Countesses territory in the future?

Actually, is the army currently there or am I reading that wrong?
 
I agree with the view point that we need to inform the boss about the conversation and see what he has to say. If she is a vampire then she is an experienced one and not something we as a Journeywoman witch should try to face alone and that is what will happen if we snoop around her castle with out help. So as this is the smartest why to deal with that situation we should concentrate on the paper and getting full credit for it with the Colleges. Plus the witch hunter we have for a boss knows how dangerous magic can be so getting this right and giving the Empire a new weapon is something he should see as a good use of time. Plus considering the bust that was looking in to the mountain and the fact that it was just the terrain making it hard to dig the undead out of the hills he would want us on stuff that will prove useful in the future.
[X] Plan Wait and Listen
 
King Arthur said:
@BoneyM Quick question, does it look like the supply train is going to be moving through the Countesses territory in the future?

Actually, is the army currently there or am I reading that wrong?
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Two divisions and their supply trains are currently based in and going through Nachthafen for the central hill portions of the Purge, and for the advance on Drakenhof there's no other candidates for forward base.
 
[X] Throw yourself back into reclusion and goddamn stay there until the job is bloody well done.(takes two actions)
-[X] Ranald's Blessing
 
So basically one way or another we're dependent on her holdings. If we pry her out by force, Drakenhof is logistically beyond our reach.
 
BoneyM said:
Two divisions and their supply trains are currently based in and going through Nachthafen for the central hill portions of the Purge, and for the advance on Drakenhof there's no other candidates for forward base.
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Yeah, that's what I thought.

[X] Plan Actually doing our job
-[X] Information Network: Work alongside to Julia to administer the network. Choose another Organizational Action for the Network.
-[X] Expand your information network into another county or barony (Nachthafen)
--[X] Ranald's Blessing
-[X] Getting To Know You: Spend time with one of your fellow councillors or your liege, offering your help in their tasks and generally getting a feel for them (Countess Gabriella von Bundebad).

At the very least we should really do the first one because Nachtafen is the single most vulnerable point of this supply chain as far as intrigue actions from the enemy goes. It's more secure military wise for our forces than anywhere else in Sylvania to be sure, but unlike simply camping in the mountains this place has, you know, civilians and just a ton of strangers.

Even assuming that the Countess is totally innocent and just a saint, we've already seen that the vampires can and will bend mortals to their will to spy on us, considering we are literally in Sylvania they should have no problem doing this, so we need to take some sort of measure to prevent this before she has her pawns sabotage us. That it just so happens to help us get a better picture of the Countess and her doings are .... a nice side benefit.

Getting to know the Countess is obvious, we spend more time in the area so we can better see and respond to suspicious stuff, and it lets us get to know and have a better understanding of someone we are suspicious of. Worst case scenario, it's a waste of time and we've made a friend. Best case scenario, we've discovered an evil person before they could betray us, preventing disaster.

She did tell us to come by again after all, if that's not an invitation to hang out then nothing is.

Edit:

Thinking about switching it over to this

[ ] Getting To Know You Whether You Like It Or Not: Though you no longer mistrust them, perhaps you should see what your fellow councillors spend their time doing anyway (choose one).

but I'm hesitant to do that without putting a Blessing on it, and I think putting the county under our influence is dangerous enough to warrant it.

@BoneyM is it alright that I put Getting to Know You on someone other then a councillor or our liege?
 
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King Arthur said:
[ ] Getting To Know You Whether You Like It Or Not: Though you no longer mistrust them, perhaps you should see what your fellow councillors spend their time doing anyway (choose one).

but I'm hesitant to do that without putting a Blessing on it, and I think putting the county under our influence is dangerous enough to warrant it.

@BoneyM is it alright that I put Getting to Know You on someone other then a councillor or our liege?
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Yes, I should reword those to be more general.
Adhoc vote count started by BoneyM on Feb 25, 2018 at 3:04 AM, finished with 112 posts and 50 votes.
  • [X] Plan Wait and Listen
    -[X] Countess Gabriella von Bundebad implied quite a lot, and in such a way that it's clear she's trying to needle you into action. But you don't know what. If inaction isn't the correct move, what is? (write in; may take an action) (NEW)
    --[X] Write in: Tell Van Hal about the conversation. Advise that, as the situation is apparently stable and we have ears in the city, it can probably wait until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly.
    -[X] Wurtbad was once famous for hospitality, and it still has a wonderful selection of high-class inns with actual hot running water. Book yourself into the Golden Eagle Inn and allow yourself to be pampered in the hopes that it will let the words flow. (costs personal funds)
    [X] Get atop your horse, find a place rich in ​
    Ulgu, ​
    and play hermit for a month while hoping that the energies you're so familiar with will inspire you. (???)​

    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] Throw yourself back into reclusion and goddamn stay there until the job is bloody well done.(takes two actions)
    -[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] Plan Actually doing our job
    [x] Plan Labwork
    -[x] Tell Van Hal about Gabriella and write to our master but take no action for now.
    -[X] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
    -[x] Qhaysh Skunkworks: It would take careful study to unlock the secrets of the liquid. It would take considerably less time to find out if it can be made to burn, or explode, or do something militarily useful.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] Really Good Swords: You have achieved proficiency with the Greatsword. Future progress is possible, though it will take more effort to see results.
    [X] Plan Don't Abandon Sylvania
    -[X] Something apparently quite similar to the Purge of the Haunted Hills is going on in Ostermark's southern regions; you could inspect goings-on up there yourself.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Countess Gabriella von Bundebad implied quite a lot, and in such a way that it's clear she's trying to needle you into action. But you don't know what. If inaction isn't the correct move, what is? (write in; may take an action) (NEW)
    --[X] Write in: Tell Van Hal about the conversation. Advise that, as the situation is apparently stable and we have ears in the city, it can probably wait until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly.
    -[X] Wurtbad was once famous for hospitality, and it still has a wonderful selection of high-class inns with actual hot running water. Book yourself into the Golden Eagle Inn and allow yourself to be pampered in the hopes that it will let the words flow. (costs personal funds)
    [X] Expand your information network into another county or barony (Nachthafen)
    -[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] Information Network: Work alongside to Julia to administer the network. Choose another Organizational Action for the Network.
    [X] Plan Wizard Habitats
    [X] Get atop your horse, find a place rich in ​
    Ulgu, ​
    and play hermit for a month while hoping that the energies you're so familiar with will inspire you. (???)​

    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
    -[X] Countess Gabriella von Bundebad implied quite a lot, and in such a way that it's clear she's trying to needle you into action. But you don't know what. If inaction isn't the correct move, what is? (write in; may take an action) (NEW)
    --[X] Write in: Tell Van Hal about the conversation. Advise that, as the situation is apparently stable and we have ears in the city, it can probably wait until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly.
    [X] Plan Jace
    [X] Get atop your horse, find a place rich in ​
    Ulgu, ​
    and play hermit for a month while hoping that the energies you're so familiar with will inspire you. (???)​

    --[X] Wurtbad was once famous for hospitality, and it still has a wonderful selection of high-class inns with actual hot running water. Book yourself into the Golden Eagle Inn and allow yourself to be pampered in the hopes that it will let the words flow. (costs personal funds)
    ---[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
    [X] Plan I'm totally working, honest.
    -[X] Countess Gabriella von Bundebad implied quite a lot, and in such a way that it's clear she's trying to needle you into action. But you don't know what. If inaction isn't the correct move, what is? (write in; may take an action) (NEW)
    --[X] Write in: Tell Van Hal about the conversation. Advise that, as the situation is apparently stable and we have ears in the city, it can probably wait until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly.
    -[X] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.
    [X] Get atop your horse, find a place rich in ​
    Ulgu, ​
    and play hermit for a month while hoping that the energies you're so familiar with will inspire you. (???)​

    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] Plan Northern Eye
    -[X] Something apparently quite similar to the Purge of the Haunted Hills is going on in Ostermark's southern regions; you could inspect goings-on up there yourself.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    -[X] Getting To Know You: Spend time with one of your fellow councillors or your liege, offering your help in their tasks and generally getting a feel for them (choose one).
    --[X] Anton
    -[X] Send it off to our Master and ask that he passes it on to someone with the skills to distil it into something resembling elegance; though it will mean that they will get co-author status, and may fight you on the name. (does not take an action)
    [X] Plan Gettin Gud
    -[X] Countess Gabriella von Bundebad implied quite a lot, and in such a way that it's clear she's trying to needle you into action. But you don't know what. If inaction isn't the correct move, what is? (write in; may take an action) (NEW)
    --[X] Write in: Tell Van Hal about the conversation. Advise that, as the situation is apparently stable and we have ears in the city, it can probably wait until the purge is done and we have time to investigate properly.
    --[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [X] Get atop your horse, find a place rich in ​
    Ulgu, ​
    and play hermit for a month while hoping that the energies you're so familiar with will inspire you. (???)​

    [X] Enchantment: You've finally got the equipment, now you've just got to unpack it all and set up your laboratory.​
    [X] Get atop your horse, find a place rich in Ulgu, and play hermit for a month while hoping that the energies you're so familiar with will inspire you. (???)
    -[X] Ranald's Blessing
    [x] Something apparently quite similar to the Purge of the Haunted Hills is going on in Ostermark's southern regions; you could inspect goings-on up there yourself.
    [x] If you're feeling nosy, Vanhaldenschlosse is apparently free of anything that would object to you poking around in what was once the proud ancestral home of the Van Hals.
    [X] Getting To Know You: Spend time with one of your fellow councillors or your liege, offering your help in their tasks and generally getting a feel for them (Countess Gabriella von Bundebad).
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This seems to have a very slight chance of de-throning us working on our academic papers again, so

[X] Plan Actually doing our job
 
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