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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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[X] Snowfire

Honestly I'm not sure if there's any quick talk that'd made Rhaella feel better right now, but lots of hugs n reassurances seems the most likely way to calm her down enough to gtfo of here and into a place where she had the time and space to decompress and process
 
bigbow said:
Except that's exactly the problem I'm talking about. In DnD land, the heroic LG hero can bend the world. In Planetos world bends you! what actually happens is that the courtiers start a civil war amongst themselves because the LG classical epic hero used intrigue as his dump stat, and to make matters worse his constant smiting of evil threats has taken a toll on infrastructure and thus grain shipments, and now the smallfolk are rioting in the streets...

"But I was Good..." he mutters when the starved mob storm his simple house in the city.
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Good often comes with wisdom and cleverness. But this is a pointless argument seeing how there is no real point to prove or debate to win.
 
Azel said:
We got Waymar for LG, Lya and Xor for NG, and Glyra for CG.

Please let's not pretend one LE Malarys has balanced the scales there.

#GoodSplaining
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It totally has though.

We have LE Malarys, NE Bronn, and CE Azema.
The scales are literally balanced my dude :V

Edit: as @das_slash said, it would also help to have a LG that isn't treated as a joke or an irritant by the thread.
 
Raichu1972 said:
It really does seem like we've yet to find an actual Lawful Good person that didn't constantly get on the thread's nerves and make them want to either kill them or get as far away from them as possible.

Waymar (if he was ever around more than once every irl month :( ) always seemed to get on someone's nerves, even after we have beaten most of the Stupid out of him, and I remember people voting to murder the Archons when we first met them on the road to Mantarys. Even now people mostly avoid contact with them for reasons that seem mostly unstated.

DP decided to make Bahamut Stupid Good, for whatever reason.

The only possible LG person I've seen so far that hasn't been immediately hated by the thread has been Fenly, and he's literally created to be the Perfect Lord. Even then he still pissed some people off by wanting to find the actual Renly in the Feywild.

Is it really too much to ask for a likable, non-stupid LG person?
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The thing is perspective, loathe as I am to say Bahamuts decision makes sense from his perspective, I just think he has a shitty perspective.

We favour the Ends over the Means, he favours Means over Ends.

The "Stupid Good" problem is that Ends over Means is an inoffensive trait that is often shared by Evil & Neutral alignments resulting in, "FFS Bahamut any normal people and even the godsdamned Devils can understand X".

Devils being something we recognise as an enemy is to his detriment here because of the "even X" argument.

Whoever's not doing that thing comes off looking worse than the people openly acknowledged as enemies.

I don't think it's a problem with DPs writing at all and just the fact that we live in a grey world and they exist in the Light seeing the dark and grey outside them.

From here they can go one of two ways, be fallible and therefore be shouted down "see idiots, you dun goofed" or be infallible and Mary Sues.
 
das_slash said:
he explicitly mentioned waymar doesnt count, he doesnt want stupid good you see....
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It's not my fault if you don't like the LG people we got. :p

Raichu1972 said:
It totally has though.

We have LE Malarys, NE Bronn, and CE Azema.
The scales are literally balanced my dude :V

Edit: as @das_slash said, it would also help to have a LG that isn't treated as a joke or an irritant by the thread.
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I might be inclined to count Bronn if he starts showing up with more regularity, but Azemas presence is far too rare for that.
 
Azel said:
It's not my fault if you don't like the LG people we got. :p


I might be inclined to count Bronn if he starts showing up with more regularity, but Azemas presence is far too rare for that.
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We've seen Xor about as much as we've seen Azema, at this point, and the only time we ever see Glyra nowadays is in the Maelor interludes.

So yeah, it seems as though the opposite alignments also have about the same amount of screen time with the Main Party :V

Azema = Glyra
Xor = Bronn
Waymar = Malarys

There's also Lya, but she's a field of her own, unrestricted by things as petty as alignment :p
 
So do we have a list of what we want to do when we reach Castle Black and discuss with the Night Watch?

Off the top of my head we want to:
1. Tell them more about the Long Night and Old Gods in general.
2. Upgrade their maps.
3. Offer what we can to assist them.
 
Azel said:
It's not my fault if you don't like the LG people we got. :p


I might be inclined to count Bronn if he starts showing up with more regularity, but Azemas presence is far too rare for that.
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Its not me who wants the new minion, if anything i want Ser Barristan because he is cool and loyal, not because of his alignment, he seems more lawful than good anyway, even if he is both.
 
Barristan Selmy is definitely not Lawful Good.

He's more LN (or LF, Lord First) than Richard is. Arguably more than Stannis is in canon.

Raichu1972 said:
Waymar = Malarys
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Malarys has the same screen time as Waymar?

Have all our memories been affected?

One thing interesting about selfless deities is that they have to be at least a little hypocritical.

If selflessness is a tenent that gives them power so by telling you to be selfless they're saying.

"Do not do things for gain, do them for the Goodness of the act and in doing so you reward me with divine power through adherence to my tenents thereby negating my ability to do this without reward by definition."

A selfish diety with a mirrored position has no such conflict, encouraging people towards their own gain gives them power and thus increases their own gain. No hypocrisy.
Adhoc vote count started by Deliste on Jan 23, 2018 at 1:58 AM, finished with 143181 posts and 17 votes.
  • [X] I had to change too - Pt 2
    -[X] Return to the entrance of the cave and assure your mother that you're both fine. Hugs or handholding might be required, this is fine.
    -[X] Equally, it's possible that after the display we've just given she might be a little afraid of us. Be prepared for this in as much as you can. Newcomers to magic generally don't get to see a display like what we just put on unless it's their introduction to it. We've been trying to start out small. This has probably somewhat sunk that notion.
    -[X] When pressed on the matter of the great many visible enchantments around you, explain them briefly in a way that Rhaella should be able to understand. Honesty here, to show that your defences are capable of matching the threats you often find facing you is important.
    -[X] Do not allow even a hint that this might be a result of moves on the board between the Old Gods and the Others into the conversation. That would allow Rhaella to possibly make the attack her fault. Equally, don't elaborate on the true nature of the danger you were in. The idea of True Death is frightening enough a one to ourselves now that we've faced it, no need to inflict in on someone for whom death is still the worst fate they truly know of.
    -[X] The key here is to project a degree of confidence, but no arrogance. Tailor our exact words to our mother's reaction, and work from there.
    [X] Snowflame
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[X] Snowfire

Was sure I had voted -.-
Adhoc vote count started by Deliste on Jan 23, 2018 at 2:00 AM, finished with 143182 posts and 18 votes.
  • [X] I had to change too - Pt 2
    -[X] Return to the entrance of the cave and assure your mother that you're both fine. Hugs or handholding might be required, this is fine.
    -[X] Equally, it's possible that after the display we've just given she might be a little afraid of us. Be prepared for this in as much as you can. Newcomers to magic generally don't get to see a display like what we just put on unless it's their introduction to it. We've been trying to start out small. This has probably somewhat sunk that notion.
    -[X] When pressed on the matter of the great many visible enchantments around you, explain them briefly in a way that Rhaella should be able to understand. Honesty here, to show that your defences are capable of matching the threats you often find facing you is important.
    -[X] Do not allow even a hint that this might be a result of moves on the board between the Old Gods and the Others into the conversation. That would allow Rhaella to possibly make the attack her fault. Equally, don't elaborate on the true nature of the danger you were in. The idea of True Death is frightening enough a one to ourselves now that we've faced it, no need to inflict in on someone for whom death is still the worst fate they truly know of.
    -[X] The key here is to project a degree of confidence, but no arrogance. Tailor our exact words to our mother's reaction, and work from there.
    [X] Snowflame
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Light... dark...

It doesn't matter. There's only one delineation that matters in the end. Those who are with us. And those who are against us.

One gets to enjoy the bounty of peace and plenty. The other feeds the roots of that plenty.
 
Azel said:
By the way, I'm against gaining any divine allies we can't feed with our enemies. That concept is too successful to stop now.
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Well, if it's an either/or choice, I'm for the bloody god's, but I really want both sets of netural-bloody and good god's if possible :D

We could leverage efforts on behalf of the weeping lady for nice things like gratitude.

Gratitude in the form of being spat on, that is :p.

Ah, I have undermined my point.

Eh, I want all the things that don't mess with you when you have them.

Name: Beepsmile
Race: Abstract/Meta Fey
Alignment: Practical Greed
 
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