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Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest

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Pittauro said:
I didn't know the nickname, and while I knew about Vikings invading the UK, i didn't know anything about them attacking Ireland in particular
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Yeah, the Norse settled heavily around Scotland* and the surrounding islands and used said settlements as launching pads to raid Ireland for about 300 years. It's where the extinct cultural group, the "Hiberno-Norse," came from - "Hiberno" being an adjective deriving from the Latin name for Ireland, Hibernia.

*Edit: Figured I should make a late historical correction and mention that the area of Scotland was still "Pictland" during that time period.
 
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The Void King said:
So Is Gryphus both Fantasy Germany and American? or will Fantasy American be something else
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Gryphus isn't really either one but has elements of both due to it's unique circumstances. It's political and military organisation is much like the Holy Roman Empire (medieval Germany), the militia culture makes me think of either early America or Switzerland, and like the British Empire we have developed an extensive trade network due to a desire for foreign goods like tea. I'm not sure if any real world nation handled religion the way Gryphus did. Instead of a separation between church and state we just kept adding to the list of approved state religions. Gryphus is a really odd mix that doesn't completely match any real world country.
 
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AthetosAdmech said:
Gryphus isn't really either one but has elements of both due to it's unique circumstances. It's political and military organisation is much like the Holy Roman Empire (medieval Germany), the militia culture makes be think of either early America or Switzerland, and like the British Empire we have developed an extensive trade network due to a desire for foreign goods like tea. I'm not sure if any real world nation handled religion the way Gryphus did. Instead of a separation between church and state we just kept adding to the list of approved state religions. Gryphus is a really odd mix that doesn't completely match any real world country.
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Now imagine the cliche of the world of MLP merging into or getting isekaed to Earth happening with this quests version of the world.

I really want to see how our version of the Gryphons would interact with other polities in the hypothetical crossover.
 
MrRobot said:
Well the nice building on the side of a certain coffee shop still would take the cake.
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It is a little crazy, but...
Well, not like earth doesn't have its own crazy. In fact some people may actually see the logic behind it. After all, sometimes the so crazy that it is stupid may work for precisely that reason.
Though of course compared to at least what we know about the other folks in the ponyvese, the Griffons would certainly stand out in that respect.
 
AthetosAdmech said:
Gryphus isn't really either one but has elements of both due to it's unique circumstances. It's political and military organisation is much like the Holy Roman Empire (medieval Germany), the militia culture makes be think of either early America or Switzerland, and like the British Empire we have developed an extensive trade network due to a desire for foreign goods like tea. I'm not sure if any real world nation handled religion the way Gryphus did. Instead of a separation between church and state we just kept adding to the list of approved state religions. Gryphus is a really odd mix that doesn't completely match any real world country.
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I still feel like it's a stretch to say that there's any US in the Empire, the militia culture of the early United States was a ragtag rebellion against a powerful monarch whereas the Empire has a well trained military with zealous loyalty towards the king
 
jonasquinn said:
I still feel like it's a stretch to say that there's any US in the Empire, the militia culture of the early United States was a ragtag rebellion against a powerful monarch whereas the Empire has a well trained military with zealous loyalty towards the king
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Not exactly, their zelotry is towards a ideal, a ideal that Garrick embodies, also there a strong sence of duty to your ancestor and live by a legacy. Is not just a big fanclub of the glorious golden emperor.
 
jonasquinn said:
I still feel like it's a stretch to say that there's any US in the Empire, the militia culture of the early United States was a ragtag rebellion against a powerful monarch whereas the Empire has a well trained military with zealous loyalty towards the king
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More like Switzerland then. It's one of the few countries that encouraged civilians to keep firearms in their homes (and made it mandatory for enlisted soldiers) so they could more easily form militias if they are invaded. While Gryphus has a strong military that martial attitude is also present in the civilian population who are all expected to be able to fight should it ever become necessary.
 
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Slayer 10321 said:
Now imagine the cliche of the world of MLP merging into or getting isekaed to Earth happening with this quests version of the world.

I really want to see how our version of the Gryphons would interact with other polities in the hypothetical crossover.
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imma chime in here. ive been working on a omake and as part of that ive estimated the start and current relative centuries.

based on technology alone, we started around in the 2nd to 4th century area.
we are now around 14th to 18th century.
if we were portalled right now, we would be a minor power, but not too far behind. But...

assuming advancement is linear and not exponential, we advanced 1000-1600 yrs in 30 years!!
that means if we portalled when our date was 2021 we'd have 1979 earth years of advancement. we are 33 times faster than earth based on speed of technology development. that means ~65,967 years of technology development! we would be so far passed what we have irl that we would probably completely wreck the current political environment.

ofc this is ONLY based on tech level, of which I am assuming is linear. if anyone has a better idea of our technology development pace that would be very helpful!
 
Jam jar binks said:
imma chime in here. ive been working on a omake and as part of that ive estimated the start and current relative centuries.

based on technology alone, we started around in the 2nd to 4th century area.
we are now around 14th to 18th century.
if we were portalled right now, we would be a minor power, but not too far behind. But...

assuming advancement is linear and not exponential, we advanced 1000-1600 yrs in 30 years!!
that means if we portalled when our date was 2021 we'd have 1979 earth years of advancement. we are 33 times faster than earth based on speed of technology development. that means ~65,967 years of technology development! we would be so far passed what we have irl that we would probably completely wreck the current political environment.

ofc this is ONLY based on tech level, of which I am assuming is linear. if anyone has a better idea of our technology development pace that would be very helpful!
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And of course, there is also magic, which makes things more complicated, since magic could enable some things sooner. I mean, equestria probably has a full blown weather service that is actually accurate by sheer dint of being able to control the weather directly...:lol::rofl:
 
Jam jar binks said:
imma chime in here. ive been working on a omake and as part of that ive estimated the start and current relative centuries.

based on technology alone, we started around in the 2nd to 4th century area.
we are now around 14th to 18th century.
if we were portalled right now, we would be a minor power, but not too far behind. But...

assuming advancement is linear and not exponential, we advanced 1000-1600 yrs in 30 years!!
that means if we portalled when our date was 2021 we'd have 1979 earth years of advancement. we are 33 times faster than earth based on speed of technology development. that means ~65,967 years of technology development! we would be so far passed what we have irl that we would probably completely wreck the current political environment.

ofc this is ONLY based on tech level, of which I am assuming is linear. if anyone has a better idea of our technology development pace that would be very helpful!
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Interesting. Very interesting.

But I was envisioning our Gryphus at the level of the 21st/22nd Century tech levels meeting Earth nations of around the same level. Mainly to see how they compare the process they took to get to that level.
 
@Questor So quick question. Was inspired by playing "Avernum" to try* to write a cute little omake in the form of a government recipe book (made in more recent times) on the many uses for mushrooms discovered back when we had to promote their farming. Are the Griffons and Diamond Dogs facultative carnivores (meaning they eat primarily meat but can eat plants if they absolutely need to) or are they full omnivores?

*"try" meaning I make no promises if it ever releases. I tend to write omakes and then get stuck or otherwise lose my drive if I don't finish it in one go. Still have a half-finished omake on the layman ponies' reactions to seeing the Gryphonian airship flying overhead to Canterlot
 
eh, tech progress is NEVER linear, and it depends on various factors.

more than anything, tech progress accelerates a LOT once you reach the industrial-revolution equivalent, and there's a few requisites for that.

This reply on quota seems convincing enough. the poster basically states the requirements for industrial revolution are, more or less

1)no slavery. Slave labour is cheap, and makes machines less convenient/necessary. a low pop also helps, as you need your people to be able to do more, and that leads to a search for technological solutions. We had this.
2)enough food, which requires good agriculture. We did our best with this.
3)approval by the nobility. Traditionally nobles have always looked down on traders and merchants. And yet, we had a merchant emperor. That likely made a big difference
4)patent law, protecting inventors and allowing them to make a profit on their discoveries. I don't remember if we have this, but as most inventions have been the result of imperial projects we kinda side-stepped this (though the simplified mechanics of a quest vs real world certainly helped. It's not really realistic that nearly all new tech comes out of... well, basically our top scientist and his crew).
5)Lots of consumers to buy the new products. We have these, as we're trying to spread the wealth.

and then the strong central power of the loved emperor AND the help of some magics boosted progress even more.
 
Pittauro said:
3)approval by the nobility. Traditionally nobles have always looked down on traders and merchants. And yet, we had a merchant emperor. That likely made a big difference
4)patent law, protecting inventors and allowing them to make a profit on their discoveries. I don't remember if we have this, but as most inventions have been the result of imperial projects we kinda side-stepped this (though the simplified mechanics of a quest vs real world certainly helped. It's not really realistic that nearly all new tech comes out of... well, basically our top scientist and his crew).
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On number 3, alternatively the nobility can be stripped of power or otherwise abolished. Looking at real-life cases, the nobility very rarely actually approved of it. That's what that whole "new money vs. old money" divide typically was.

As for number 4, patent law is definitely not necessary. Heck, a lot of inventions that came about in the various industrial eras spread because people stole ideas (by the legal definition of violating a patent) and brought them somewhere else to make their own profit out of it, and then their ideas were stolen in turn and improved or modified and so on.
 
PyrrosWarrior said:
On number 3, alternatively the nobility can be stripped of power or otherwise abolished. Looking at real-life cases, the nobility very rarely actually approved of it. That's what that whole "new money vs. old money" divide typically was.

As for number 4, patent law is definitely not necessary. Heck, a lot of inventions that came about in the various industrial eras spread because people stole ideas (by the legal definition of violating a patent) and brought them somewhere else to make their own profit out of it, and then their ideas were stolen in turn and improved or modified and so on.
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Yes for 3, but the ability to safely profit from your inventions without tearing them getting stolen is a BIG incentive to private research.

It's less important for us, as most discoveries are sponsored by the empire, but such a System could actually help to push private research.

Now admittedly lack of patent system means ideas circulate faster as they get copied and improved upon, but it also means there's fewer incentives of coming up with those ideas in the first places. This becomes a LOT more important once you reach the point that new discoveries requires BIG investments and teams, and not just the efforts of a single researcher working on his own.

It's a trade-off, and usually governments try to find a sweet spot in the duration of those patents that makes the inventors/investors happy while also not slowing down research and proliferation too much...
 
Pittauro said:
Yes for 3, but the ability to safely profit from your inventions without tearing them getting stolen is a BIG incentive to private research.
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That's an argument for modern day (and one that's heavily contested in studies even now, but that's N&P territory) when we generally have a recognized patent system internationally. There was no such thing during the industrial eras wherein one person could hold a patent in one country without another country recognizing it.

There is also the thing that you mentioned that about the industrial eras being full of low-hanging and inexpensive fruits.
 
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Where would we be in regards to industrial revolution? cause we seem close what with the steam engines and increased metal working and what not.
 
Jam jar binks said:
Where would we be in regards to industrial revolution? cause we seem close what with the steam engines and increased metal working and what not.
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well, it's not a 1-to-1 comparison, but... somewhere around 1850.

We have the Bessemer process I think, as that's the first cost-effective way to mass-produce steal (1856).

We have steam trains and railways (first steam locomotive: 1784. First ACTUAL railway: 1804. First public railways using ONLY steam locomotive: 1830).

we have airships (1852-first steam-powered airship, though ours are much better due to magic).

We're about to have steamboats (1787 prototype, in use of usa rivers by 1811)


still, we don't have electricity or electric lights, we don't have airplanes of any kind (both of those get invented in the second half of 800, and take a few decades to truly become viable and spread) we don't have guns other than cannon (which is kinda weird, as arquebus are from the 16th century and muskets were commonly used in armies by the 19th century...)


So... we're more or less somewhere in the first half of 800, peaking at 1850 or so, but we lack a few things and cheated with magic for others.

Next big steps would be the discovery of electricity and how to use it/generate it. Coal plants, hydroelectric power, electric locomotives, lightbulbs, AC and DC, basic batteries, telegraph to telephone to radio... Also prototype airplanes and guns.
 
Pittauro said:
well, it's not a 1-to-1 comparison, but... somewhere around 1850.

We have the Bessemer process I think, as that's the first cost-effective way to mass-produce steal (1856).

We have steam trains and railways (first steam locomotive: 1784. First ACTUAL railway: 1804. First public railways using ONLY steam locomotive: 1830).

we have airships (1852-first steam-powered airship, though ours are much better due to magic).

We're about to have steamboats (1787 prototype, in use of usa rivers by 1811)


still, we don't have electricity or electric lights, we don't have airplanes of any kind (both of those get invented in the second half of 800, and take a few decades to truly become viable and spread) we don't have guns other than cannon (which is kinda weird, as arquebus are from the 16th century and muskets were commonly used in armies by the 19th century...)


So... we're more or less somewhere in the first half of 800, peaking at 1850 or so, but we lack a few things and cheated with magic for others.

Next big steps would be the discovery of electricity and how to use it/generate it. Coal plants, hydroelectric power, electric locomotives, lightbulbs, AC and DC, basic batteries, telegraph to telephone to radio... Also prototype airplanes and guns.
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It's also worth keeping in mind that it's not like the entire world developed at the same time, while the first real railway was in 1804 that was in the UK and there are plenty of places where it took a lot longer than that
 
jonasquinn said:
It's also worth keeping in mind that it's not like the entire world developed at the same time, while the first real railway was in 1804 that was in the UK and there are plenty of places where it took a lot longer than that
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oh, sure, I'm just taking the very first dates.

For all we know we'll one day meet a country which somehow has developed technologies we didn't... like an airplane, or oil-based engines. And that's without considering the possibilities of magitech and innate magics/special resources.
 
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