- Location
- Washington
The princesses, while powerful, are not infalliable or unbeatable. In fact, they have been bested several times within the show. While they are certainly some of the most powerful beings in the land, they can be beat.
Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest
- Thread starter Questor
- Start date
- Location
- Germany
Yep, with power like that they are essentially holding the whole world hostage by their mere existence.
They want something to happen - it either happens or people suffer.
By beings at least as powerful as them - not exactly something we got a lot of running around.
Well on the other pony nations once being a unified whole Pre discord and Celestia and Luna acquiring them.
The Changeling War is Canon to Mlp gen 4 it happens after Luna's sabbatical to the moon but it happens in the MLP comic.
It's how the survivors ended up All holey after being sealed inside a Volcano by the Dawnbringer and her army.
It wouldn't take much for the losing Changlings to scare/ally with their neighbor to resist against the conquering horde from Equestria.
With the Map as is after Equestria got through Digesting those two they'd have Sombra on the Border.
The Changeling War is Canon to Mlp gen 4 it happens after Luna's sabbatical to the moon but it happens in the MLP comic.
It's how the survivors ended up All holey after being sealed inside a Volcano by the Dawnbringer and her army.
It wouldn't take much for the losing Changlings to scare/ally with their neighbor to resist against the conquering horde from Equestria.
With the Map as is after Equestria got through Digesting those two they'd have Sombra on the Border.
- Location
- Italy
I don't get the point of this conversation about the sisters.
Yes, they're powerful.
No, they're not invincible.
Also their control of the sun and moon is not really that dangerous.
Think about it: they probably can't use it offensively without hitting themselves as well, or without too much collateral damage.
The way I see it, it's mostly a good deterrent against acting against them directly (everyone want the sun to keep moving, so everyone want them to stay alive and healthy), but nothing more. And presumably there are ways around that as well.
Unicorns moved them before, they probably could do it again if needed, even if at great cost to themselves.
Chrysalis once captured them, and yet the sun and moon continued to move, so either she moved them thanks to the stolen love, or she mind-controlled them into moving them.
and, presumably, other ways to move them could be found. Maybe a specially crafted runic artifact, or a zebra ritual, or even the Qilin combining their firebending to move the "fire in the sky"...
the above was all about the "they have the sun and moon, they're invincible.
but.. well, they also wouldn't likely attack/begin hostilities in the first place. Not unless it was TRULY Important.
The current Equestria is the result of multiple PEACEFULL treaties. And none of their current members was, alone, as great or as established as the ones left, nor easy enough to connect to.
They wouldn't try to force the crystal ponies to join them, they PROBABLY wouldn't press the Maretonia problem unless they saw us treating them inhumanly after the conquers (it's just not worth it!), and Canterbury is likely going with a polite "no".
Canterbury is really their only possible yes, actually, especially if they get to spread their religion to the rest of Equestria in exchange. It's risky, but it would offer the changeling a chance to expand their sources of love.
..on that note: IF Equestria tries to get Canterbury to join them, and it seems like Canterbury is going to accept.. we should probably, at that point, tell them about the changelings.
Yes, they're powerful.
No, they're not invincible.
Also their control of the sun and moon is not really that dangerous.
Think about it: they probably can't use it offensively without hitting themselves as well, or without too much collateral damage.
The way I see it, it's mostly a good deterrent against acting against them directly (everyone want the sun to keep moving, so everyone want them to stay alive and healthy), but nothing more. And presumably there are ways around that as well.
Unicorns moved them before, they probably could do it again if needed, even if at great cost to themselves.
Chrysalis once captured them, and yet the sun and moon continued to move, so either she moved them thanks to the stolen love, or she mind-controlled them into moving them.
and, presumably, other ways to move them could be found. Maybe a specially crafted runic artifact, or a zebra ritual, or even the Qilin combining their firebending to move the "fire in the sky"...
the above was all about the "they have the sun and moon, they're invincible.
but.. well, they also wouldn't likely attack/begin hostilities in the first place. Not unless it was TRULY Important.
The current Equestria is the result of multiple PEACEFULL treaties. And none of their current members was, alone, as great or as established as the ones left, nor easy enough to connect to.
They wouldn't try to force the crystal ponies to join them, they PROBABLY wouldn't press the Maretonia problem unless they saw us treating them inhumanly after the conquers (it's just not worth it!), and Canterbury is likely going with a polite "no".
Canterbury is really their only possible yes, actually, especially if they get to spread their religion to the rest of Equestria in exchange. It's risky, but it would offer the changeling a chance to expand their sources of love.
..on that note: IF Equestria tries to get Canterbury to join them, and it seems like Canterbury is going to accept.. we should probably, at that point, tell them about the changelings.
...Yeah, withholding the sun would be a great deterrent. IF Equestria did not also need the sun to keep moving, which is something relatively clear.
And even if they did not care for those under their rule, trying that would quickly lead to a united force against them, and with stuff like the elements of harmony which likely would be let loose onto the world as a result of their nature, it is not exactly clear cut, and as said, the world don't exactly need the duo to stay alive as shown by the fact that the Unicorn tribe had been doing it long before the alicorn sisters shown up...
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- Location
- Washington
Thing is, them threatening to withhold the sun or the moon is ultimately an empty threat because, 1) it would affect their ponies as well and not just a specific country, and 2) the act of moving the sun or the moon in the past before them was done through a group of unicorns working in tandem. So even if they tried what is literally stopping us getting a bunch of unicorns together and going "Fine, I'll do it myself"?
- Location
- Italy
To be fair we don't know if a group of unicorns could steal control of the celestial orbs from them. But if they really for the blackmail, AND if we had an alternative way to move the sun and moon.. well, then it's war or lots of assassins sent to kill them.
And we have orichalcum, so they're not really safe.
But really, this shouldn't become relevant any time soon, unless they go Nightmare.
on that note though, I'd like to talk to them about precautions in case something happens to them.
Right now, if they die, there's presumably nobody who knows how to move sun and moon. While getting a copy of the sun-moving spell would be nice, I understand they might not want to share it.. but there NEEDS to be some countermeasure in case something happens to them, like one of their archmages going evil Sombra, or Tirek stealing their magic, or anything like that! It can be as simple as "choose a few mages in Equestria, teach them the spell in secret, and never reveal who knows it. If something happens, they're tasked with assembling a unicorn cadre to restart their old duty.
And who knows, maybe at some point we'll actually manage to assemble a runic artifact that can take care of the sun and moon on its own. I'd be curious to see the reaction to that. Would they be offended/scared? relieved it's not only up to them anymore? Would they feel vulnerable or threatened?
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I could see Daybreaker pulling a stunt like that with bringing the Sun closer to dry and burn out the enemy in an act of pragmatic cruelty like she does in EaW. Still, I agree with the general sentiment that the Moon and Sun control isn't something I generally see being a problem in our future.
- Location
- Italy
unless Daybreaker, as you point out.. or, I suppose, if someone manages to steal control of them. But who could even do that?
From what little we know.. maybe the celestial dragons of the Qilins, or the zebras in one of their most powerful rituals... and obviously Discord, but then again it's easier to list what he CAN'T do..
- Location
- Goose Land
I just have to say, the speculation into the potential global blackmail by the Princesses makes me chuckle and scratch my head.
Beyond the fact that everything we've been presented with suggests that the Equestrians are a peaceful people who will likely jump at the chance of joining our trade based political exchange (once we get around the whole "monster infested barriers" thing), I don't actually recall any in text commentary suggesting that they actually control the Sun and Moon.
They're almost certainly immensely powerful, and likely have a life span measured in centuries if not millennia if not infinitely, but present evidence suggests they're either going to be excellent trade partners or very slowly open their nation up due to the complicated political and militarized world they're stepping into.
Not, ya know, become supervillians threatening the entire world with Eternal Night if their demands aren't met
Beyond the fact that everything we've been presented with suggests that the Equestrians are a peaceful people who will likely jump at the chance of joining our trade based political exchange (once we get around the whole "monster infested barriers" thing), I don't actually recall any in text commentary suggesting that they actually control the Sun and Moon.
They're almost certainly immensely powerful, and likely have a life span measured in centuries if not millennia if not infinitely, but present evidence suggests they're either going to be excellent trade partners or very slowly open their nation up due to the complicated political and militarized world they're stepping into.
Not, ya know, become supervillians threatening the entire world with Eternal Night if their demands aren't met
- Location
- Washington
I just want to call attention to this one line and state that, assuming they work off the same magical rules as regular ponies, them moving the Sun and the Moon is merely their special talent, thus it wouldn't nessecarily exclude other ponies from performing the same feat (though in this case, a group of them is needed). With this in mind, they likely don't have exclusive control over them, but they can easily control them.
People are jumping to the worst case scenario for characters who have in canon been super pleasant and reasonable. I honestly do not think any of this whole blackmail scenario will ever play out unless they turn evil.I just have to say, the speculation into the potential global blackmail by the Princesses makes me chuckle and scratch my head.
Beyond the fact that everything we've been presented with suggests that the Equestrians are a peaceful people who will likely jump at the chance of joining our trade based political exchange (once we get around the whole "monster infested barriers" thing), I don't actually recall any in text commentary suggesting that they actually control the Sun and Moon.
They're almost certainly immensely powerful, and likely have a life span measured in centuries if not millennia if not infinitely, but present evidence suggests they're either going to be excellent trade partners or very slowly open their nation up due to the complicated political and militarized world they're stepping into.
Not, ya know, become supervillians threatening the entire world with Eternal Night if their demands aren't met
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- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
- Pronouns
- He/Him
To be fair, I said that Celestia going cruel Daybreaker was the only scenario I could ever see the Sun thing ever becoming an issue. I've been agreeing that none of the blackmail thing or the like will be a problem!
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Not, ya know, become supervillians threatening the entire world with Eternal Night if their demands aren't met
Which is not at all helped by the Nightmare Moon incident in OTL, which most of us are already aware of.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
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Ahem...Which is not at all helped by the Nightmare Moon incident in OTL, which most of us are already aware of.
I'm totally down for the night lasting forever. Much more pleasant, quiet, and cool at night than the day. Go Lunar Empire!Aww, but Nightmare Moon's path in EaW is among my favorite. Sure we can't ally with her instead?
(I'm joking of course)
- Location
- Goose Land
Which is not at all helped by the Nightmare Moon incident in OTL, which most of us are already aware of.
That was the joke
I can't wait for Luna to learn our lamps to keep our people up late
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Honestly, she just might be ambivalent towards them since cities with lights cause light pollution that outshine and hide the stars.
FictionPack
Monochromatic Ursine
- Location
- Tennessee
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She'd just make the stars brighter.
- Location
- USA
Wasnt her main gripe the fact that people just slept through her time at night, i feel like even with light pollutions just that fact that people are up and about during her time at night will more then likely please her if nothing else.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
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I mean, if that was her main gripe, that seems like it'd solve the word of it but not the spirit of it. Lighting up the night, as we've seen with urbanization, is generally about blocking out everything that makes the night beautiful in favor of artificially extending the day. I wouldn't think merely staying up longer but continuing to actually ignore the night would be all that satisfying.
That said, you guys know more of the MLP source material than I do so I'd trust you guys know the characters better than me.
lockingbane
If you're crazy and you know it clap your hands!
- Location
- Waxahachie tx
I would think luna would come to love the nightlife but that's just me
- Location
- Italy
presumably they have something special going on, more than normal unicorns.
I always forget if it's fanon or canon, but it's usually assumed that normal unicorns ended up losing their magic from the effort of moving sun and mon in the end. And while it took multiple mages before, the sisters can do it alone AND effortlessly.
Maybe there's something more than raw power boosted by talent, and as long as THEY control them other can't steal it (or at least not that easily).
Maybe it's just a matter of gathering enough unicorns, or preparing a strong enough ritual/artifact.
In the end, we just don't know. Not that it's likely to become relevant any time soon anyway.
About the "Luna might not like light pollution"... in the spirit of diplomacy/gratitude, we could establish some kind of holyday in which we keep the lights turned off for one night, to better appreciate the night sky (and we could propose such to both Celestia and Luna, really).
It could even be a monthly or weekly thing, one hour of darkness to appreciate the night sky. Wasn't there something similar actually proposed in real life some time ago? I can't remember right now.
Of course, we'd need to be aware of the problem IC in the first place.
- Location
- Washington
I presume they had the raw magical talent to move them, ascended to alicorn status as a result (which in turn made their magic MORE powerful as alicorn magic is stronger than regular magic).
It should be noted that Celestia could move the moon while Luna was imprisoned, which isn't her special talent and later when her's and Luna's Cutie Marks were swapped she noted that moving the moon was "easier than the sun", which implies that she had a harder time doing it when Luna was imprisoned and she had her sun Cutie Mark. And when all the alicorns gave their magic to Twilight, Twilight could move the sun when he exerted the effort but she did a very poor job at it.
- Location
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maybe. It was never explained in the show HOW they ascended, or even IF they ascended and weren't BORN alicorns.
there was some extra material explaining it, but it's of dubious canonicity, and even if it was canon a LOT of fans simply ignore it anyway
I doubt anyone thinks we'll have to fight Equestria, but it's fun to speculate how such a conflict might play out.