We just boosted that timer by a large amount.
Suppose that is true. Still, I dont see minimal debt as a problem if we can find a way to pay it off next turn. Absolute Max I'd be willing to go is 2,000 tops, unless the situation is exceedingly dire. Not at home so cant do calculations atm, but I'll see where the currency falls when I do.
 
I don't see us having issues at debt, between our two stewardship actions and machine tools we should see some increases in income over the next two turns, and also trade with neighpon is a possibility for more if need be. Even then a plan focused on prepping for Sombra still spends less then our net income.
 
i disagree a bit. IF we plan to attack we should take different actions that if we don't plan to. It doesn't make much sense, for example, to build our fortresses if we attack next turn. We're just wasting actions better used to strenghten our offensive.

Vice versa if we want to turtle up we can plan more for the long term, so we can (for example) delay the explosive intrigue action, the request to the Yaks for support, and we can try take Yakity yak instead as a first step in understanding how hard would it be to getting them to join us.

EDIT: i think i might propose two plans, one for attack and one for defense. In the end our choice is between these two
That is the basis for my action choices to go defense so we can let him waste his army on our walls.

Suppose that is true. Still, I dont see minimal debt as a problem if we can find a way to pay it off next turn. Absolute Max I'd be willing to go is 2,000 tops, unless the situation is exceedingly dire. Not at home so cant do calculations atm, but I'll see where the currency falls when I do.

That right there is the problem.

Debt should not be something you go into when you want things to go faster. Debt is a rare thing we should go into in this quest as in the only time we should is when "OMG EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE. SPEND WHATEVER IT TAKES SCREW COST AND THE CONSEQUENCES IT IS EITHER THIS OR DIE." That is when debt is okay aside from that no it is not because going into debt because the first turn has no consequences is gaming the system.
 
I'd rather we get those walls built. Sombra is many things, sane is not one of them. If he thinks we've backed him into a corner I can see the maniac throwing caution to the wind and trying to blitzkrieg into our territory.

Hell even if he doesn't succeed in taking any territory, getting in deep enough to plant the Wendigos (which we don't have a way to reliably kill yet) would fuck us up something fierce.

Also let's not forget our new allies, if worse comes to worse we've got them to call upon for back up. I'd rather we give them an actual place to stage an assault rather than just marching into his territory without anything resembling a fallback position.

This isn't the type of asshole you can kill in one campaign. Questor likened him to Sauron and the fucker's got the defenses to match that.

Think of it less like crossing into France and more like walking into Mordor and plan accordingly.

(Also working on that Diamond Dog omake, will hopefully finish by tonight.)
 
Based on Void Stalker's plan, but with trade instead of ballistae:

[ ] Hans, Get the Flamethrower
[ ] Army Artillery

[ ] Ministry of Foreign Affairs

[ ] Imperial Irrigation Program
[ ] Mine Carts

[ ] Machine Tools
[ ] Intro to Thaumatology

[ ] Captain Karl Kaboom's Explosive Adventures

[ ] Overtime: Shiny and Black
[ ] Overtime: Nanban Trade

Balance: +530
 
wont debt also get more people accustomed to having paper currency?
also some of those Actions take 2-3 turns making it easier to pay of the debt
 
Let's see if I can't put it in numbers....

Starting at 4380

[ ] The Peregrine Line-The Gates to the North: Cost: 1500. Time: Three Years. Reward: Southern Border Fortifications Built, Peregrine Line Completed.

3330

[ ] Army Artillery: Cost: 500. Time: One Year. Reward: +10 Cannons added to army (can probably be switch for something cheaper to keep under budget/closer to budget)

2830

[ ] Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Cost: 600. Time: One Year. Reward: Ministry of Foreign Affairs Created, Additional Diplomacy Action Unlocked.

2230

Overtime:
[ ] Permanent Neighponese Ambassador: Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward: Permanent Diplomatic Mission established in Neighpon, Cheaper Neighpon Diplomatic Actions, New Diplomacy and Intrigue Actions Unlocked.

1830

[ ] Mine Carts: Cost: 500. Time: One Year. Reward: Mine Carts Installed at all Imperial Mines, Increased Mining Income.

1330

[ ] Crop Rotation: Cost: 600. Time: One Year. Reward: Crop Rotation becomes standard agricultural doctrine, increased Farming Income.

730

Overtime:
[ ] Intro to Thaumatology: Cost: 200. Time: One Year. Reward: Gain basic understanding of Magical Laws and Phenomenon, Additional Actions Unlocked.

530

[ ] Shiny and Black: Cost: 100. Time: One Year. Reward: Orichalcum Qualities Revealed.

430

[ ] Machine Tools: Cost: 500. Time: Two Years. Reward: Machine Tools Invented and Distributed, Slight Increase to Tax Income, New Actions Unlocked.

-70

[ ] Captain Karl Kaboom's Explosive Adventures: Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward: Explosives pre-planted on and under Crystal Empire defenses, to be triggered during attack. Chance of Success: 30%

-470

yup, seems I was on the ball with that estimate. if doing math while constantly switching between phone tabs hasn't thrown it off.
 
Let's see if I can't put it in numbers....

Starting at 4380

[ ] The Peregrine Line-The Gates to the North: Cost: 1500. Time: Three Years. Reward: Southern Border Fortifications Built, Peregrine Line Completed.

3330

[ ] Army Artillery: Cost: 500. Time: One Year. Reward: +10 Cannons added to army (can probably be switch for something cheaper to keep under budget/closer to budget)

2830

[ ] Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Cost: 600. Time: One Year. Reward: Ministry of Foreign Affairs Created, Additional Diplomacy Action Unlocked.

2230

Overtime:
[ ] Permanent Neighponese Ambassador: Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward: Permanent Diplomatic Mission established in Neighpon, Cheaper Neighpon Diplomatic Actions, New Diplomacy and Intrigue Actions Unlocked.

1830

[ ] Mine Carts: Cost: 500. Time: One Year. Reward: Mine Carts Installed at all Imperial Mines, Increased Mining Income.

1330

[ ] Crop Rotation: Cost: 600. Time: One Year. Reward: Crop Rotation becomes standard agricultural doctrine, increased Farming Income.

730

Overtime:
[ ] Intro to Thaumatology: Cost: 200. Time: One Year. Reward: Gain basic understanding of Magical Laws and Phenomenon, Additional Actions Unlocked.

530

[ ] Shiny and Black: Cost: 100. Time: One Year. Reward: Orichalcum Qualities Revealed.

430

[ ] Machine Tools: Cost: 500. Time: Two Years. Reward: Machine Tools Invented and Distributed, Slight Increase to Tax Income, New Actions Unlocked.

-70

[ ] Captain Karl Kaboom's Explosive Adventures: Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward: Explosives pre-planted on and under Crystal Empire defenses, to be triggered during attack. Chance of Success: 30%

-470

yup, seems I was on the ball with that estimate. if doing math while constantly switching between phone tabs hasn't thrown it off.
Our income this turn is 4620, where did you get 4380 from? So Subtract 240 from the final debt and we will have a debt of 230.
 
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[] plan swift offense 1.0
-[ ] Hans, Get the Flamethrower:
-[ ] Army Artillery:
-[ ] Ministry of Foreign Affairs:
-[ ] Mine Carts:
-[ ] Crop Rotation:
-[ ] Intro to Thaumatology:
-[ ] Shiny and Black:
-[ ] Captain Karl Kaboom's Explosive Adventures:
-[ ] Overtime: Nanban Trade
-[ ] Overtime: Scatter-Shot


This plan focuses on being ready for a decisive attack as quickly as possible (which means next turn, or the one after at the latest)

It avoid multi-years options that would take time to give us advantages, and pick all the available low-hanging fruits.

It was what i wanted to pick in the beginning, but after thinking about it a bit more i'm starting to like the idea of Sombra coming to us first, letting him break on our walls. THat would give us time to REALLY prepare and upgrade everything. For example, even if the airships wouldn't be that usefull in the actual attack they'd be invaluable for our logistics, helping moving food, equipment and wounded. It can even become a mobile hospital! (of course it depends on how feasible it is for it to move in the blizzards, but we need to develop them to know if it would work in the first place anyway. Worse comes to worse it would be a new way to move between countries. It could be used to trade with Neighpon for example)

Plan Turtle Up 1.0

[ ] The Peregrine Line-The Gates to the North:
[ ] Army Artillery:
[ ] Ministry of Foreign Affairs:
[ ] Mine Carts:
[ ] Crop Rotation:
[ ] Intro to Thaumatology:
[ ] Shiny and Black:
[ ] Yakity Yak:
[ ] Overtime: Nanban Trade:
[ ] Overtime: Settling the Western Frontier:

The idea is to wait for Sombra's next attack. In the meantime we focus a bit more on the Yak, trying to push them into joining us.

I'm not really convinced an all the actions i choose. I think western frontier is important to connect more easily with the yaks, but i should probably remove something to make space for the multi year options (especially machine tools and the airship (1 year, but only the start of the chain))


thoughts? Feel free to modify these plans, voting will probably start after i go to sleep anyway so i might not be able to modify them in time anyway

Debt should not be something you go into when you want things to go faster. Debt is a rare thing we should go into in this quest as in the only time we should is when "OMG EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE. SPEND WHATEVER IT TAKES SCREW COST AND THE CONSEQUENCES IT IS EITHER THIS OR DIE." That is when debt is okay aside from that no it is not because going into debt because the first turn has no consequences is gaming the system.
That's a bit extreme. I think as long as the debt doesn't last more than one turn it CAN be fine. What is VERY BAD is STAYING into debt multiple turns.

In this case we have multiple options that give extra income. Going into debt to take these is reasonable.

It also depends on HOW MUCH we go into debt. That omake about merchants buying our debt was canon, wasn't it? It seems we're close to actually create government bonds.
 
It also depends on HOW MUCH we go into debt. That omake about merchants buying our debt was canon, wasn't it? It seems we're close to actually create government bonds.
noooo, shhhhh, now the secret omake I was working on for garrick is out in the open!

was actually going to make an omake where he planned out the selling of debt to make something akin to bonds, but the writeup on paper money omake went a bit further than he was originally thinking...

as for the western frontier, yeah, I also really want to take it, but MAN is it expensive... maybe next turn.
 
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Plan Turtle Up 1.0

[ ] The Peregrine Line-The Gates to the North:
[ ] Army Artillery:
[ ] Ministry of Foreign Affairs:
[ ] Mine Carts:
[ ] Crop Rotation:
[ ] Intro to Thaumatology:
[ ] Shiny and Black:
[ ] Yakity Yak:
[ ] Overtime: Nanban Trade:
[ ] Overtime: Settling the Western Frontier:
This is a little too expensive and the settlements can wait.
 
noooo, shhhhh, now the secret omake I was working on for garrick is out in the open!

was actually going to make an omake where he planned out the selling of debt to make something akin to bonds, but the writeup on money went a bit further than he was originally thinking...

as for the western frontier, yeah, I also really want to take it, but MAN is it expensive... maybe next turn.
sounds interesting!

And about the frontier...yeah, it's long and expensive. but i think it's a necessary step in getting the Yaks to join us. If we're waiting for Sombra to attack us i kinda want them part of the Empire before the next battle if possible, and the settlements will help bringing the average Yak's opinion in our favour i think (mostly because it will show them what life in our cities is like).

This is a little too expensive and the settlements can wait.
i didn't check the costs yet (a bit sleepy). How much does it leave us at?

The settlements could wait...but i really want my Yaks!
 
sounds interesting!

And about the frontier...yeah, it's long and expensive. but i think it's a necessary step in getting the Yaks to join us. If we're waiting for Sombra to attack us i kinda want them part of the Empire before the next battle if possible, and the settlements will help bringing the average Yak's opinion in our favour i think (mostly because it will show them what life in our cities is like).


i didn't check the costs yet (a bit sleepy). How much does it leave us at?

The settlements could wait...but i really want my Yaks!
Like, I really want it Asap just cause it'll most likely get us a trust bonus and lower the DC for getting the Yaks to join our side. but money. But also, YAKS. but again... MONEY.

Next turn for sure, since I for sure want to use next turn (we'll have some options locked behind 2 turn actions) to get some needed options.
 
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Treasury: 210
Net Income: 4620
Total: 4830
Spent: 4400

Plan Prepping the Army
So the focus here is to take actions to get us ready for taking the fight to Sombra, just not launching an offensive this turn.

[ ] Hans, Get the Flamethrower
[ ] Army Artillery
[ ] Ministry of Foreign Affairs:
[ ] Imperial Irrigation Program
[ ] Mine Carts
[ ] Machine Tools
[ ] Intro to Thaumatology
[ ] Captain Karl Kaboom's Explosive Adventures
[ ] Overtime
- [ ] Shiny and Black
[ ] Overtime
- [ ] Big Sticks

So all the warmachine actions for our army. Diplo is the action to give us a 2nd diplo action each turn. I am taking the two turn agriculture since then we can finish both agriculture options next turn, mine carts to improve our resource output in the lead up to war and start the process towards trains. Machine tools is the fundamental learning action that lets us progress to a higher tier as we need machine tools to make precise equipment for things such as flying machines, steam engines, rifles and more. Intro to Thaumatology is to give us a better understanding of what we are facing while Shiny and Black let us know how to use our new metal so that next turn we can make sure to get the best anti-sombra use out of it that we can. Captain Kaboom, well more explosives under the enemy sounds like a good thing.




Martial +14, 900 Gold
[ ] Hans, Get the Flamethrower: The flame projectors proved to be one of the most important assets of the Winter War, being the only viable method of destroying the shadow-beasts, and serving as excellent counters to the abominations. Now that the Troll-Busters' contract has expired, it's probably a good idea to build a few more of these devices for yourself. Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward: +4 Static Flame Projectors
[ ] Army Artillery: The cannons have proven their effectiveness on the battlefield, and now that you have the foundries up and running, it's time to start cranking out some more of these explosive artillery pieces. Cost: 500. Time: One Year. Reward: +10 Cannons added to army

Diplomacy +18 600 Gold
[ ] Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Even with only two other nations to worry about, Elva and her staff are swamped. They simply don't have the resources they need to do everything that needs to be done. Only one way to fix this: Reorganize the existing diplomatic staff, hire on new prospective diplomats, and construct a dedicated building to act as a headquarters for the new government office. Expensive, yes, but necessary to coordinate matters of international relations. Cost: 600. Time: One Year. Reward: Ministry of Foreign Affairs Created, Additional Diplomacy Action Unlocked.

Stewardship +15 1300 Gold
[ ] Imperial Irrigation Program: The weather can be a fickle thing. If enough rain fails to fall, there goes a farmer's crop. Irrigation networks can fix this, but having every farmer build their own irrigation system is...messy, not to mention inefficient. A government funded public works program could bring a reliable source of water to farms across the Empire. This will of course be an expensive and time consuming program, but the benefits will be worth it. Cost: 800. Time: Two Years. Reward: Standardized Irrigation, Significantly Increased Farming Income.
[ ] Mine Carts: Carrying loads of ore out of mines and to smelters is difficult, slow-going work. A few of the larger mines in your Empire have come up with a solution involving the use of carts that run along wood or metal tracks, pushed by workers or pulled through the use of pulley systems. Prior to the construction of Genevieve's blast furnaces, such arrangements were too expensive to be widely implemented across the Empire, but now that a glut of cheap iron and steel is available, Imperial subsidies can make such systems a standard piece of mining equipment as common as pickaxes and shovels. Cost: 500. Time: One Year. Reward: Mine Carts Installed at all Imperial Mines, Increased Mining Income.

Learning +18 700 Gold
[ ] Machine Tools: Blacksmiths and other artisans of metal are vital to your realm's economy and technical advancement, but as demand for shaped metal products has begun to grow they have become a bottleneck, straining to keep pace with demand. Both Archimedes and Genevieve say they have some ideas to resolve this problem through the introduction of new tools meant to make the precision working of metal easier. Developing, producing and distributing these devices will be expensive, to say nothing of the time and effort that will have to be expended training Gryphons and Dogs in their use, but it is necessary of your Empire is to advance technologically in your lifetime. Cost: 500. Time: Two Years. Reward: Machine Tools Invented and Distributed, Slight Increase to Tax Income, New Actions Unlocked.
[ ] Intro to Thaumatology: From the Yak Shamans' abilities to see into the future to the Qilin's fire-bending and the Illusions of the Kitsune and Tanuki, magic has has become a much more easily accessible school of study. Of course, your people lack any magical abilities of their own...but that doesn't mean you can't understand the theory and natural laws surrounding the phenomenon. Cost: 200. Time: One Year. Reward: Gain basic understanding of Magical Laws and Phenomenon, Additional Actions Unlocked.

Intrigue +13 400 Gold
[ ] Captain Karl Kaboom's Explosive Adventures: The sabotage against your Southern enemy went well. So well there's almost nothing left to sabotage. Almost. At some point you're going to have to assault the Shadow King's fortress, and when you do it's going to be a hard fight. Perhaps you can make things easier for yourself by planting some explosives under and around your enemy's defenses in advance? You think you know the right person for the job. Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward: Explosives pre-planted on and under Crystal Empire defenses, to be triggered during attack. Chance of Success: 30%
43%


Personal 500 Gold
[ ] Overtime: Your advisors can only do so much, and sometimes that's just not enough. If it's truly necessary, you can sacrifice some of your otherwise free time to carry out an additional action from another category, provided said action has a duration of only one year. The costs and chances of success for that action remain the same.
-[ ] Shiny and Black: The Orichalcum has been smelted, now it's time to see what it can do. Have Archimedes put the dark metal through every test he can think up and record the results. With any luck, this stuff will have more interesting qualities than being really hard to break or melt. And if not...well, it's already better at that than steel. Cost: 100. Time: One Year. Reward: Orichalcum Qualities Revealed.
[ ] Overtime: Your advisors can only do so much, and sometimes that's just not enough. If it's truly necessary, you can sacrifice some of your otherwise free time to carry out an additional action from another category, provided said action has a duration of only one year. The costs and chances of success for that action remain the same.
-[ ] Big Sticks: The mobile Ballistae proved instrumental in your victory at the Battle of Wingbardy. Clearly they are a valuable battlefield asset. Build a few more. Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward: +10 mobile Ballistae added to army.
 
I'm thinking turtling up is the way to go I'm thinking sombra doesn't have a good way to replace people or armies so having him weaken himself on our walls while we prep a united army to strike seems the best idea to me
 
[ ]Plan Turtle Up 1.1
-[ ] The Peregrine Line-The Gates to the North: 1500
-[ ] Hans, Get the Flamethrower 400
-[ ] Ministry of Foreign Affairs: 600
-[ ] Mine Carts: 500
-[ ] Crop Rotation: 600
-[ ] Intro to Thaumatology: 200
-[ ] Shiny and Black: 100
-[ ] Captain Karl Kaboom's Explosive Adventures:400
-[ ] Overtime: Nanban Trade: 300
-[ ] Overtime: Machine Tools: 500

tot: 4830-5100= -270

removed Yakity Yak, Army Artillery and settlements for Captain Kaboom, Flamethrowers (a bit cheaper than cannons) and Machine tools.

slight debt, but the extra income and the fact that locked actions mean reduced costs in the next turn makes it trivial to repay next turn.



I though about it a bit more...while i'd like the Yak, they're not a priority right now. We should focus on Sombra, and on upgrading our tech base (and, consequently, our military)

Going to sleep now. Feel free to modify this plan (maybe change the number though)
 
[] Plan Turtle Adventwolf version
-[ ] The Peregrine Line-The Gates to the North: (3) 1500
-[ ] Hans, Get the Flamethrower: (1) 400
-[ ] Ministry of Foreign Affairs: (1) 600
-[ ] Mine Carts: (1) 500
-[ ] Crop Rotation: (1) 600
-[ ] Intro to Thaumatology: (1) 200
-[ ] Shiny and Black: (1) 100
-[ ] Yakity Yak: (1) 60% 300
-[ ] Overtime: Nanban Trade: (1) 300
-[ ] Combing the Archives: (1) 0

Treasury Reserves: 210
Yearly Income: 5150
Yearly Expenditures: 530
Net Income: 4620

Cost: 4620-4500=120
Net= 120
Treasury= 330


Right Here is my version of the Turtle plan. I take out the machine tools and add the Yak intrigue action. This brings the plan under budget and gives us a profit because using the no negative for first turn debt is gaming the system and I really think the QM should address that issue. The Yak Intrigue is two parts one it is cheaper, and the more important part it should allow us to influence the political and cultural shift going on with the Yaks. The faster we can get them to settle permanently and growing faster the better our chances in this long war become. Because if the have permanent settlements that means walls and defenses in place which mean fewer Yaks needed to defend their homes and more can deploy to fight.
 
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