You know I have been thinking on what do we do to the crystal empire if we defeat sombra they were more or less there own government we could annex them but that might not be a good idea and possibly might start tensions I feel like it might be better if we turn the empire into a vassal state or into a protectorate.
Oh I bet those ponies would love to join after having there kingdom being mind controlled by pony Sauron and would gladly love to give away there kingdom after just being freed to us (sarcasm)
I feel like the protectorate status would be good, and maybe working out a decent exchange, we give them protection from the horrible things in the world and they give us the shiny gems and other such materials they don't need
Oh I bet those ponies would love to join after having there kingdom being mind controlled by pony Sauron and would gladly love to give away there kingdom after just being freed to us (sarcasm)
Oh I bet those ponies would love to join after having there kingdom being mind controlled by pony Sauron and would gladly love to give away there kingdom after just being freed to us (sarcasm)
Not really as they basically wouldn't have any old form of governance and we would be viewed as hero's for freeing them. I mean us not annexing them would be a wasted opportunity, not to mention that we would help them like we helped Aquileia and Wingbardy.
And diamond dogs integrated just fine i don't see why are people raising problems about tensions before they even started and yet there are some voices about integrating the changelings.
You know I have been thinking on what do we do to the crystal empire if we defeat sombra they were more or less there own government we could annex them but that might not be a good idea and possibly might start tensions I feel like it might be better if we turn the empire into a vassal state or into a protectorate.
Getting a little ahead of ourselves are we. First we have to see if beating sombra is even a possibility first and then actually beat him before we can even think about what to do with the empire.
Perhaps it is getting a little ahead of ourselves, but it is an interesting topic. I think a protectorate status would be good. But i wouldn't say no if they wanted to willingly join us.
Not even win it, survive it. This is our first time fighting other magic user's and it against a (presumed) magical juggernaut like sombra. I don't know how good we are goona do.
Martial: Gustav is frantically gathering together as many troops as he can, coordinating supply buildups and attempting to rally the militias and Knightly Orders in preparation for the war that everyone knows is coming. Gabriella assists him as much as she can, calling on old mercenary contacts and putting her considerable logistical experience to use, but things are still frenzied and disorganized.
[ ] Rally the Militia: You'd integrated the informal village and town militias into the national defense infrastructure several years ago, promising only to call upon them when the heartland was threatened with invasion. Well, here you are. If there was ever a time to rally every able-bodied defender to the defense of the Empire, this would definitely be it. Cost: 500. Time: One Year. Reward: Militia Units rallied to supplement the Imperial Army
The orders are sent out, and the "Irregulars" are mobilized. While the militias in the communities along the Southern Border are already fully prepared and ready, units elsewhere need to be seen to and supervised in their march South. Some local unit commanders complain or show hesitation at the thought of leaving their homes undefended to fight for the protection of someone else's, but they are quickly reminded that the professional soldiers of the Imperial Army do the same on a regular basis on their behalf, which shuts them up pretty quickly.
Besides, this is what they'd agreed to do, to rally when the Empire was threatened, no matter which part of the Empire was in danger. And if they didn't beat back the invaders at the border, the whole of the Empire would be under threat, and it would be much more difficult to defend anything anywhere! This silences any complaints, and the thousands of warriors of the Imperial Levy set out to reinforce the defenders of the towns and villages in the South.
Though they are not nearly as well equipped or well-trained as the regulars of the professional army, their numbers and tenacity could make the difference in the impending conflict. Militia Rallied and gathered along the Southern Border, ready to defend the homeland. +15,000 Militia added to Auxiliary
[ ] Emergency Fortifications: It would take years to construct even the most basic fortifications along the Southern Border. You have weeks, if not mere days. Still, you can take steps to prepare the settlements most at risk of a siege. Stockpile supplies, shore up existing defenses, dig pit traps and tunnels, and do what you can to ensure the towns and cities most likely to be attacked are prepared to endure whatever the enemy can throw at them. Cost: 1000. Time: One Year. Reward: Reinforced defenses at Southern Settlements.
Fortifications are made in preparation for the arrival of two great threats: the invaders, and the unnatural blizzard they bring with them.
Underground chambers are excavated to protect civilian and soldier alike, both from projectile weapons and the killing cold. Storehouses are built and filled with food and fuel, both to feed the defenders and keep the bonfires burning. Existing walls and palisades are reinforced, and several narrow mountain passes are buried under artificial avalanches and rock-slides to prevent the enemy from using them.
The creatively morbid go to work creating all manner of traps, from simple snares and hidden trenches to pits filled with sharpened wood stakes and everything in between, anything that might slow and frustrate an advancing army. Range markers are set up to aid archers and ballistae, and sets of barracks are quickly erected even as the local civilians prepare to offer up their own homes to shelter soldiers from the cold.
Construction is still ongoing even as your troops and the militia begin to assume positions in and around the towns and cities, the locals doing all that they can to prepare for the coming onslaught. Defenses at Southern Settlements reinforced.
[ ] The March South: Intelligence reports are spotty, infrequent, and often contradictory, but you don't need them to know that any Invasion is almost certainly going to come over the Peregrines before carving its way into your heartland. Whether you intend to wage a purely defensive war or launch an assault into enemy territory, you'll need to gather your forces along the Southern Border before you can consider actually engaging your foe. Rally the troops once again and march off to war. Cost: 0. Time: One Year. Reward: War turns begin.
The soldiers and Knights are rallied, supplies are gathered, and great columns of troops form up and set out for the Peregrines. Tens of thousands of Griffons and hundreds of Diamond Dogs fly or march south in great columns, prepared to defend the Empire and strike back against those who would seek to destroy it. You and your wife bid a somber farewell to your children, promising Gawain that you will return soon, though you don't know if you will be able to keep that promise. You tell your son that this is the burden rulers carry, that their duty to their people comes first above all other things. You go to fight not just for the Empire, but for him. You fight in the (perhaps naive) hope that he will never have to.
You and your wife leave your children in the care of your most trusted subordinates, who swear upon their honor to guard them with their lives. They're certainly safer than you're going to be down South. It pains you to leave them, and you'd love nothing more than to stay with them in this time of fear and uncertainty. But such is the burden of duty. To be Continued in "The Winter War"
Diplomacy: Elva Von Cleef retains her air of haughty indifference, but you can tell she's as concerned and stressed as the rest of you, a situation not helped by her seeming inability to really contribute to the defense of the Empire in any meaningful way without relying upon the kindness of strangers. (One Action per Turn)
[ ] Yak Attack: You've only recently come to know their language and have only just begun to grasp their culture, but all you really need to know is that the Yaks have among them some of the strongest warriors in the north, warriors that you desperately need to fight back against the oncoming storm. Go before the leaders of the clans, explain the situation and the threat this pony of shadows poses to all of you, and plead with your neighbors for assistance. You can discuss reimbursement and diplomatic relations once you're not at risk of freezing to death or being enslaved by a mad sorcerer. Cost: 200. Time: One Year. Reward: Gain assistance from Yak Clans. Chance of Success: 50%
Required: 50. Rolled: 94+18+10(Great Clans of Yakyakistan Omake)+15(A Foul Wind from the South Omake)=137 (Super Crit!)
Your diplomats never even make it beyond your borders.
Somehow, someway, the Yaks know about the situation you're in. The origin of the great blizzard, the dark, twisted lands beyond the mountains, even the dark equine threatening both your peoples. They know it all, and they've reached the same conclusion you have: this shadow from the South is a grave threat to both of your peoples, and you stand the best chance of facing it together.
That's why, for the first time in their recorded history, every Yak Clan has put aside their few differences and rallied under a single banner. Every able-bodied Warrior in the Steepes willing to leave their homes has packed up and journeyed South to offer their aid, and to ensure that this foul presence never takes a single step upon their ancestral lands.
Each Yak is a powerful combatant, strong enough to wrestle a bear or cripple a troll, and hardy enough to go jogging through a blizzard naked without fear. And you've just earned the assistance of several thousand of them.
You might just survive this war after all.
All Yak Clans Rally to Assist You. +10,000 Yak Chargers join your forces
Stewardship: You feel bad for Frida. Her first year on the job and already thrown into handling a crisis. Still, despite everything she manages to keep up her positive outlook, upholding office morale with her optimistic statements and encouraging her colleagues with her seemingly inexhaustible reserves of energy.
[ ] Hothouses: This unnatural, unseasonable cold has caused extensive damage to your agricultural sector. Not only is this biting into tax revenues, if it keeps up you might have to worry about food shortages! A few creative farmers have come up with a solution. By constructing large, insulated grow houses and ensuring they are well-heated, it becomes possible to grow crops even in the midst of this blizzard. Set some funds aside for the construction of more of these hothouses and see if you can't build enough to offset the damage already done. Cost: 500. Time: One Year. Reward: Hothouses constructed. Alleviates some risk of food shortages, repairs some of the agricultural damage wrought by the storm.
Frida goes to work, opening up the treasury to farmers so they can build the new hothouses. Under any other circumstance these buildings would be seen as a grand innovation that allowed for warm-weather crops to be cultivated year-round. But in this time of crisis, they are seen as the only means of growing food, especially as the alternative means of food production have begun to come up short. With the fish farms beginning to ice over and even mushrooms failing to survive the frost, these heated grow houses are the only means of ensuring a consistent food supply. Hunting and trapping can only take you so far, after all.
As the hothouses go up, priority is placed on the harvest of fast-growing, nutritionally dense crops. The nobles may groan, but with starvation a very real threat you don't have the time or growing space to cultivate wine grapes. Even with the hothouses making up for the shortfall it's going to be a lean year. Produce that once would have been deemed unsightly and carelessly thrown away is now eaten, and soup is all that's on the menu in some food-strapped communities.
Still, you've prevented a famine before it could really materialize, and you won't have to worry about any of your subjects starving to death...this year.
Hothouses Constructed, famine prevented, +200 Farming Income
[ ] Blast Mining: Archimedes' fire powder, while little more than a noise maker in small amounts, is a potent explosive in large doses. A few miners have expressed interest in using it to blast their way through solid rock that can't be easily excavated. It's risky, but the rewards make it worth consideration. Cost: 200. Time: One Year. Reward: Increased Mining income. Chance of Success: 70%
Required: 30. Rolled: 99. Nat Crit!
The miners have been very...enthusiastic about the application of black powder to their trade. You swear you can hear the detonations from your palace, though Archimedes assures you that there's no danger of the explosions causing damage to anything but objects within the mines. Regardless, the black powder has allowed for the destruction of stone deposits blocking access to several untapped veins of ore...including a vein of a curious material no one seems to have ever encountered before.
What at first glance appears to be a large deposit of obsidian is actually an apparently undiscovered type of metal. Archimedes isn't too sure what to make of it. He's not sure if it's an undiscovered element all it's own or an alloy composed of known metals. He's not even sure if it's native to Earth or naturally occurring, theorizing that it could have been deposited by a meteorite or a created as side effect of Discord's magic. That last possibility concerns you, but Archimedes repeatedly states that the unknown material has shown no truly unusual behavior to be expected of something the trickster spirit created, being much more mundane in its abnormality.
Whatever it is, it's extremely dense and extremely durable, maintaining its shape and solidity even when exposed to temperatures capable of melting all other types of known ore. Genevieve postulates that you'll need to build her newly designed blast furnaces to produce temperatures great enough to smelt this ore, which Archimedes has tentatively dubbed Orichalcum. Curious. Black Powder incorporated into mining, +50 Mining Income, gained access to new Metal: Orichalcum.
Learning: Archimedes increasingly involves himself with weapons development and research projects that might assist the war effort. Genevieve assists, albeit reluctantly. Coming up with new ways to kill people wasn't what either of them signed up for, but they are well aware that any innovations they can devise in the limited time available just might tip the balance of the war.
[ ] Explosive Siege Weapons: The success of his ballistae and his access to supplies of fire powder has given Archimedes some ideas. The concept is simple, if unorthodox: a metal tube, sealed off at one end, filled with an amount of fire powder that, when ignited, propels a metal or stone ball out the opening at great speed. It…honestly sounds kind of dangerous, but Archimedes is the expert on this sort of thing. He tells you that, with additional funding, he might be able to have these new weapons ready for the first true battle of the war, assuming they don't blow up on the testing range. Cost: 4̶0̶0̶ 800. Time: T̶w̶o̶ One Year. Reward: New Siege Weapon. Chance of Success: 60%
Required: 40. Rolled: 30+18+10(Time has Run Out Omake)=58
After a great deal of frenzied work and many exploded prototypes, Archimedes delivers a finalized product just as your army prepares to march South. It's as he described earlier: a metal tube with two openings, one small one at the back for a fuse and another, larger one at the front for the projectile. It's surprisingly heavy for its size. Archimedes had to use the strongest steel available to reliably contain the explosive force of the ignited powder charges. He's taken the liberty of adding a pair of wheels and a frame to the actual weapon to allow for ease of transport, a necessity for the march South as there's no way your troops will be able to carry these things through the air for more than a couple hundred yards at a time.
These "cannons" fire heavy iron balls at fantastic speeds, fast enough to pulverize bone and break through stone and brickwork. They're not as accurate as the ballistae already in use, but they make up for it through sheer stopping power.
Unfortunately due to the time constraints and the complicated metal forging process Archimedes is unable to build as many of these new weapons as he would like before you are forced to depart. Only four accompany you on the campaign, their barrels still warm from the foundries even as the snow falls upon them. New Weapon: +4 Cannons added to Army
[ ] Burning Shrooms: While working on turning mushrooms into alcohol, Archimedes realized that, if distilled a certain way, rather than an intoxicating beverage, the mushrooms produced a highly flammable liquid that caused health complications and death if ingested. At the time, he considered it a failed batch. Now, he thinks it might form the basis of a family of new weapons. Naturally, he'll need funding to run tests and establish a distillery dedicated to the production of this new substance. Cost: 200. Time: One Year. Reward: Flame Weapons? Chance of Success: 60%
Required: 40. Rolled: 84+18=102 Art. Crit!
Archimedes is apparently a closeted pyromaniac. That's the only explanation for how many different applications he's come up with for his new "liquid fire".
Glass canisters with fuses that ignite the stuff when the container breaks, arrows dipped in and ignited to set troops and buildings alight, trenches filled with the flammable material that is then ignited to discourage advances, large ceramic containers filled with a mixture of the liquid and iron fragments that explode with a burst of shrapnel when detonated, even a couple complex pumping contraptions meant to send flaming jets of the stuff flying impressive distances, though these are large and unwieldy and not suited for use by individual soldiers.
All of these weapons are now available to you, and to the soldiers under your command. However, your chief scientist has urged caution in regards to the use of the weapons, warning that an accident involving these devices could do a massive amount of damage, especially in crowded army camps or your own settlements.
Regardless, Archimedes' "Fire-distillery" is already pumping out barrels of the flammable concoction for use on the frontline, and you have no doubt you'll get a lot of use out of this potent new weapon, perhaps enough to turn the tide of battle. New Weapons: Incendiary Cocktails, Fougasse, +2 Static Flamethrowers added to Army Arsenal
Intrigue: Ravenburg is a rock of calm in an ocean of confusion and uncertainty. You're not sure if that's because of or in spite of the fact that you know almost nothing about your enemy. Regardless, he intends to do what he can to keep you informed of whats happening both within and without your borders.
[ ] Forecast: All the information you possess regarding your new enemy comes from five half-mad explorers who barely escaped the southlands with their lives, and they didn't say much beyond "doom is coming." It's risky, especially after the last group to do so was ripped to pieces, but you need to send some spies over the Peregrines to get a clearer picture of whatever it is you're up against. Cost: 400. Time: One Year. Reward: Information on Sombra/Crystal Empire, better idea of what to expect. Chance of Success: 40%
Ravenburg selects a dozen of his best agents for the most dangerous mission any of them will ever undertake: observation and espionage beyond the Peregrine Mountains. The agents are given as much cold-weather gear and survival supplies as they can carry, and then set out individually on varied routes to minimize their chances of failure.
Miraculously, all twelve agents return alive after several weeks in hostile territory, but they bring grim news. A vast army marches towards your borders under the cover of an artificial snowstorm.
It's massive, outnumbering your own forces at least three-to-one, perhaps even more. It's soldiers do not speak, marching tirelessly in synchronized formation more befitting a parade ground, seemingly immune to the freezing cold that should by all logic strike them down as they march.
They bear armor and weapons similar in quality to your own, but there is something...off...about them. Your spies cannot explain it, simply stating that there seems to be something viscerally unsettling about the nature of the enemy's garb.
But that is only the beginning. Amongst the enemy are numerous...abominations. That is the only word that can be used to describe what your horrified agents say they saw. Twisted parodies of flesh and living shadow held together by crystals emitting a sickly glow. Each one is the size of a mountain troll, and visibly crackles and sparks with arcane power. You can't even imagine what such beasts are capable of.
And then of course, there is the Equine that your scouts first encountered, the one that slaughtered your expedition, the one at the epicenter of the storm and the rear of the invading column. Your agents never actually see him, the most they get is a brief glimpse of an ornate and luxurious carriage that practically oozes dark magical power pulled along by a group of truly horrific creatures that your spies found difficult to look at...literally, the act of looking at them caused physical pain.
Still, despite the terrible knowledge of the foe that approaches you, there is one great piece of good news: judging by their predicted path, you now know exactly which mountain pass they will seek to traverse. Perhaps an ambush is in order? Intel Gained: Sombra advances with an Army of 100,000 slave soldiers and magical abominations. Gained knowledge of likely hostile approach, can move to ambush or intercept.
Personal: You refuse to let your duties as Emperor take up every moment of your day.
[ ] Gabriella's Greatswords, Part 2: Prior to the battle of Wingbardy, you asked your wife to dig up some of her old mercenary contacts and see if any of them would be willing to fight alongside you. Their numbers and skills were but one of several factors that allowed you to claim victory. After the unification, most of the mercenaries hung up their swords and made to pursue other lines of work. But now the Empire is threatened, and you need every able-bodied Warrior you can get your talons on. See if Gabriella can't convince her old friends to come out of retirement and help you kill an evil sorcerer. Cost: Varies, depending on Choices. Time: One Year. Reward: Mercenaries Hired
Gabriella goes to work, scouring taverns, taprooms, and remote forest cabins for the former leaders of the mercenary companies she'd hired or tried to hire what seems like so long ago. Grizzled veterans are pulled out of retirement, weapons and armor are retrieved from dust-covered mantles or hidden alcoves, and old units are reconstituted. Seeing as how the survival of the Empire and its people is at stake, the companies agree to an even bigger discount than before, though this still means their services are expensive. They're still soldiers of fortune after all, and they have to pay their subordinates and maintain their equipment. (You may hire as many units as you like, though they all insist on being paid in advance for the Year. Alternatively, you can choose not to hire any of them with no consequences.)
[ ] The War Wolves: A recently founded mercenary outfit that's attracted a lot of attention for being composed entirely of Diamond Dogs. They've built a reputation for reliability and tenacity, using their natural aptitude for digging to build pit traps and collapse the dens of monsters. They're no slouches in straight combat either, and seem to have perfected the art of rapid fortification. (Numbers: 500 Diamond Dogs) Cost: 200 Gold
[ ] The Wood Stalkers: Experienced Archers/Scouts that specialize in Forest Combat, they have years of experience hunting Timberwolves and Feral Diamond Dogs throughout Griffonia. (Numbers: 200 Warriors, 300 Archers) Cost: 200 Gold
[ ] The Black Pikes: A unit of heavily armored and stoic Gryphons skilled in the use of long thrusting spears, ground combat, and phalanx warfare. They're not very mobile or good in an aerial battle, but when defending a spot on the ground they're nearly impossible to dislodge. (Numbers: 500 Pikes) Cost: 300 Gold
[ ] The Crimson Company: One of the most (in)famous mercenary companies of the Northern Mountains, the warriors of the Crimson Company fly into battle with nothing but steel claws and a coating of war-paint. Almost suicidally brave and determined to win glory in battle or die trying, their lack of armour gives them a significant speed advantage over most opponents. (Numbers: 500 Gryphon Berserkers) Cost: 300 Gold
[ ] The Troll-busters: These eccentric exiles of Feathersian nobility are unusual even by mercenary standards. Wielding strange and unwieldy mechanical contraptions that spew streamers of fire like draconic maws, they've made a name for themselves burning down swathes of monster infested forest for the highest bidder. Despite their pitiful numbers, they charge absurdly high rates for their services; apparently those "flamethrowers" aren't cheap to operate or maintain. Still, they would doubtlessly be a valuable asset in battle. (Numbers: 4 Static Flamethrowers) Cost: 800 Gold
Assistance farming in their inhospitable land would probably be the best help we could offer. High quality tools, techniques, and seeds from our better strains would go a long way towards repaying the debt. That and a promise to come to their aid should the Yaks be threatened by an external power like we are.
I mean I thought the Yaks were pretty alright when we met them, but now I'm scared of the giant behemoth nation that might be on our North if we survive that giant behemoth army currently coming to get in our base and kill all our dudes.
21000 regular army (incl. 1000 Dogs), 15000 militia, 10000 yaks, ~3300 Knights, 2000 Mercs (incl. more Dogs), 10 (Maybe 5? I thought we had 10 but the info page says 5) Ballistae, 4 Cannons, 6 Static Flamethrowers.
20 Cogs. Ships not likely to be relevant to the fight.
About 51 thousand soldiers total. We're outnumbered two to one, and while we are on the defensive and have shiny fire weapons, on the other hand, Unicorn Sauron. It's probably really hard to break the morale of mindslaves...
I mean I thought the Yaks were pretty alright when we met them, but now I'm scared of the giant behemoth nation that might be on our North if we survive that giant behemoth army currently coming to get in our base and kill all our dudes.
There is nothing to the North. We haven't observed anything from that direction. We are already in a somewhat frigid environment going North is probably starting to get artic climates which mean at best small communities of scattered tribes.
[ ] Blast Mining: Archimedes' fire powder, while little more than a noise maker in small amounts, is a potent explosive in large doses. A few miners have expressed interest in using it to blast their way through solid rock that can't be easily excavated. It's risky, but the rewards make it worth consideration. Cost: 200. Time: One Year. Reward: Increased Mining income. Chance of Success: 70%
Required: 30. Rolled: 99. Nat Crit!
The miners have been very...enthusiastic about the application of black powder to their trade. You swear you can hear the detonations from your palace, though Archimedes assures you that there's no danger of the explosions causing damage to anything but objects within the mines. Regardless, the black powder has allowed for the destruction of stone deposits blocking access to several untapped veins of ore...including a vein of a curious material no one seems to have ever encountered before.
What at first glance appears to be a large deposit of obsidian is actually an apparently undiscovered type of metal. Archimedes isn't too sure what to make of it. He's not sure if it's an undiscovered element all it's own or an alloy composed of known metals. He's not even sure if it's native to Earth or naturally occurring, theorizing that it could have been deposited by a meteorite or a created as side effect of Discord's magic. That last possibility concerns you, but Archimedes repeatedly states that the unknown material has shown no truly unusual behavior to be expected of something the trickster spirit created, being much more mundane in its abnormality.
Whatever it is, it's extremely dense and extremely durable, maintaining its shape and solidity even when exposed to temperatures capable of melting all other types of known ore. Genevieve postulates that you'll need to build her newly designed blast furnaces to produce temperatures great enough to smelt this ore, which Archimedes has tentatively dubbed Orichalcum. Curious. Black Powder incorporated into mining, +50 Mining Income, gained access to new Metal: Orichalcum.
Sounds like tungsten. How are we able to process it, work it, or use it in any way when it doesn't melt with our current tech? I don't recall us inventing coke-fired blast furnaces, much less the more modern magnetic smelters. We currently don't make tungsten ingots anyway, we use a chemical process under high temperature and pressure to extract it and then alloy it with nickel or similar, a process which wasn't even used heavily until the early 1900s, much further ahead than we are now.
21000 regular army, 15000 militia, 10000 yaks, ~3300 Knights, 2000 Mercs, 10 (Maybe 5? I thought we had 10 but the info page says 5) Ballistae, 4 Cannons, 6 Static Flamethrowers.
20 Cogs. Ships not likely to be relevant to the fight.
About 51 thousand soldiers total. We're outnumbered two to one, and while we are on the defensive and have shiny fire weapons, on the other hand, Unicorn Sauron. It's probably really hard to break the morale of mindslaves...
On the other hand, if we do manage to kill Sombra, then his entire army is going to collapse. Best case scenario they just stop moving, but even just losing cohesion would be huge. Of course, that's all predicated on killing a master sorcerer, but it's better than nothing. Maybe a lucky cannonball will take off his head and make this the most anti-climactic battle ever.
Sounds like tungsten. How are we able to process it, work it, or use it in any way when it doesn't melt with our current tech? I don't recall us inventing coke-fired blast furnaces, much less the more modern magnetic smelters. We currently don't make tungsten ingots anyway, we use a chemical process under high temperature and pressure to extract it and then alloy it with nickel or similar, a process which wasn't even used heavily until the early 1900s, much further ahead than we are now.