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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Solar Saiyan said:
What about the Vow of Poverty?
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"I assume you did take the usual Vows at some point, yes?"

"Yes, Lady Magister."

"We do rather focus on how funds are obtained. Our own dear Ulgu could make quite a terror of any that put their minds to the acquisition of wealth, as I'm sure you're aware. I'm likewise sure your acquisitions will remain benign, and there will be no need for any of those little loopholes to become a noose." She taps the silver with a fingernail. "This isn't a warning. If we didn't have faith in you, you would not bear your current rank, and truth be told the silver will come in handy - our wedding present for the Emperor was not cheap. This is simply a reminder to help you retain that faith we have in you. As the Wolfship captain said to the midshipman: if a fish jumps aboard there's no point throwing it back overboard, but don't get so used to the taste that you find yourself baiting hooks. Is that clear?"
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It's not a Vow to be Poor, it's more complicated then that. Generally, as long as you don't use magic to enrich yourself you are going to be fine, but be careful not to step over the line or you might get shanked.
 
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Solar Saiyan said:
What about the Vow of Poverty?
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The vow of poverty incurs no practical restrictions whatsoever.

I know people say that it "must be for direct and practical use to her cause", but Mathilde certainly owns massive amounts stuff that are at best only tangentially relevant to what she's doing.
So, feel free to buy an entire table made of solid gold, as long as you use it for conversation in a business diner sometimes, you can write it of as a business expense.
 
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10ebbor10 said:
The vow of poverty incurs no practical restrictions whatsoever.

I know people say that it "must be for direct and practical use to her cause", but Mathilde certainly owns massive amounts stuff that are at best only tangentially relevant to what she's doing.
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I see it as having two restrictions, no using magic and no using position to take money from the citizens.
 
DragonParadox said:
Well yeah, but in small amounts. Compare and contrast 'we stole a niter business' with 'we bombed the hell out of Castle Drak'. Net gain to the empire.
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Point remains, the vow of poverty has no practical restrictions. As long as you're in good graces with your superiors, they'll accept everything as a necessary for immediate duties.

It's a rule that is generally not enforced, but which is kept on the books so that if one Gray Wizard ever steps out of line or upsets the people higher up, they don't have to bother with finding anything they're guilty of. You can always nail them for breaking the vow of poverty.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Point remains, the vow of poverty has no pratical restrictions.

It's a rule that is generally not enforced, but which is kept on the books so that if one Gray Wizard ever steps out of line, they don't have to bother with finding anything they're guilty of. You can always nail them for breaking the vow of poverty.
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There is another reason as well, it is PR to make the College look less scary. Look at how moral we are, we even take a Vow of Poverty.
 
MossPiglet said:
It's not a Vow to be Poor, it's more complicated then that. Generally, as long as you don't use magic to enrich yourself you are going to be fine, but be careful not to step over the line or you might get shanked.
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That's a rather narrow interpretation of acquisitions remaining benign and baiting of hooks not being allowed.
DragonParadox said:
There is another reason as well, it is PR to make the College look less scary. Look at how moral we are, we even take a Vow of Poverty.
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That too. And visible wealth in front of powerful people that don't like you might cause some trouble. Like, imagine if some slighted noble said to Mathilde "and this is how you obey your oh so sacred vow of poverty?" while Dwarves just happen to overhear it.


Seriously. Anyone who thinks that the Vow of Poverty is literally not a thing, just because Mathilde happened to weasel herself out of it through loopholes, excuses and personal excellence has quite the surprise in store for them if we actually started voting as if they were right.
 
Rafin said:
That too. And visible wealth in front of powerful people that don't like you might cause some trouble. Like, imagine if some slighted noble said to Mathilde "and this is how you obey your oh so sacred vow of poverty?" while Dwarves just happen to overhear it.
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At a guess the noble gets an informal grudge for the insult. It is not like the dwarfs do not understand that you have to read the contents of a vow not just the name.
 
Rafin said:
That's a rather narrow interpretation of acquisitions remaining benign and baiting of hooks not being allowed.
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I think you read using magic to enrich yourself more narrow then I intended. The line for an apprentice will also be probably much closer to "don't earn to much" then the one a LM has to care about. I really think for us at this point it's really easy to justify a lot since we have proven reliable, and so far never hesitated to actually put that money to use instead of hoarding it. It's a combination out of how trusted are you, what were the intentions when you came into that money, what did you use that money for, and did you harm anyone for that money, and do we care about the people you harmed while earning that money, so not really simple to explain. I just wanted to clarify that keeping the shares in the family will be possible for Eike since that was the context of the question I answered.
 
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MossPiglet said:
I think you read using magic to enrich yourself more narrow then I intended. The line for a apprentice will also be probably much nearer to "don't earn to much" then the one a LM has to care about. I really think for us at this point it's really easy to justify a lot since we have proven reliable, and so far never hesitated to actually put that money to use instead of hoarding it.
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I mean let's be honest we spend money at a truly alarming rate. Look at what we do every time we get the chance to buy odd magical things.
 
Again, the real thing about the Vow of Poverty is that it exists to remove abuse from the table. Money acquired through legitimate means and used in legitimate fashion is perfectly fine. Being a wealthy shareholder in a successful company is fine, especially if you use your dividends to further your academic career--or reinvest it in infrastructure somewhere or other (Or heck, even charitable donations--I'm sure the Shallyans would love an extra source of funding!). Spending some for your own comfort is also fine. The problem emerges when you've commissioned a palatial estate that exists for no more purpose than to be dramatic.

And yeah, as DragonParadox just said, being a Wizard is fucking expensive, using the money you come by in your career to further it is always in line with the Vow of Poverty.
 
If ever Mathilde or Eike acquire so much money that they cannot spend it all in the regular ways they have been spending money, as a last resort they can buy up all the fashion houses in the Empire and prohibit all of them to ever again market, promote or sell Wizard Chic. That would be a very good use of money and perfectly acceptable under the Vow of Poverty.
 
If Eike ever finds herself with more money than she has time to spend, she can always donate them to the Cult of Shallya.
Who's going to complain about such a pious act?
 
10ebbor10 said:
The vow of poverty incurs no practical restrictions whatsoever.

I know people say that it "must be for direct and practical use to her cause", but Mathilde certainly owns massive amounts stuff that are at best only tangentially relevant to what she's doing.
So, feel free to buy an entire table made of solid gold, as long as you use it for conversation in a business diner sometimes, you can write it of as a business expense.
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In a sense, its liberating.
You amass wealth to use such wealth for the betterment of mission and friends. If you start amassing money as a goal as opposed to as a mean of achieving goal, then the collage will have words.

Unless and untill then, they have no complain as long as your membership fee is being paid.

I think, collage also have a safety net of sort to make sure that the poorest of their magic members are provided for.
 
Noting even as a journeymanling Mathilde was spending money on romance novels and decadent hot baths, while having substantial College based fund commitments.

The point of the Vow is that she has to keep exercising justifications, and that at any time she should act as if she could be audited.

Really, they're all deeply immersed in Ulgu. If there wasn't any exploitable ambiguity, one would be created. That this keeps them busy and distracted from other shenanigans is likely intended
 
Speaking of, I remember that back when we became a Lady Magister there was some talk in the thread of just continuing to pay the tithe anyway. That was quite long ago IRL, but IC this is the first full turn with actual income since we got the promotion.

So, will we get to vote on it during the purchasing turn or how are we going to decide that?

Edit: The reason for continuing to pay would be because the Grey College very likely is not one of the richest and Mathilde was most probably one of the richest Magisters of said College before her promotion.

Also, regressive tax brackets just rub me the wrong way.
 
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