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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[ ] Seek any pre-Time of Woes information on the Lhune Depths that may have survived the Karak's fall

there is an strong argument that this works well with the library.

even if we don't find anything, we can keep the documents and books for the library.
 
Rafin said:
Damn, his Windsight is fine. Could Mathilde even do that or is Johann's so super specialized that he surpasses us in his own element of Chamon?
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Different people have different types of Windsight that have differing advantages and disadvantages. Mathilde's is visual, Johann's is magnetoreception. Directly comparing the two and trying to judge which 'surpasses' the other is meaningless.
 
Byzantine said:
Indeed! We only find out at the very end of the quest that Mathilde was actually a deep-cover Tzeentch cultist all along, and all those times "Ranald" assisted her it was actually Tzeentch in a Ranald suit!

...oops, shouldn't have spoiled that. ;)
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I'm sorry, but you seem to have fallen for a misdirection. The only warp entity pulling Mathilde's strings is the one in the mirrorcatch box.
 
Right, here's my plan:

MAX: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
JOHANN: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
DUCK: Attempt to recruit someone into the research branch of WEB-MAT: Adela

Start off with a round of recruitment. Max and Johann will both be able to contribute a lot, and crucially for Max, he'll be able to stay in K8P (and thus continue his dwarven education) while he works.

Adela is, I think, the highest priority duckling - she's got ties to the Gunnery School that will help us make it a sister institution, and she has personal interests in mechanics and enchanting.

I'd like to recruit Panoramia as well, but well... Panoramia isn't going anywhere - we can recruit her in following turns without much of an issue.

EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (Cult of Karnos, Talabecland)
Personal: Suggest Eike spend a few weeks in Karak Eight Peaks, so she can grow familiar with Dwarves and their ways.

I think now is the time to finally start using the spy network we've spent so much time building up. Let's gather some data.

As for Eike, I think it's an ideal personal action to take this turn, as Mathilde winds down from her exhaustion from the expedition.

[ ] KAU: Establish the site of the KAU:
- [ ] In Karag Zilfin, just below Cython's territory

dragon dragon dragon dragon

Organize and coordinate investigations by Miners and Prospectors and collate the information they gather into a unified map
-COIN: Gambler

I want to leave the job on the highest note we can, and I think this is the option that gets Belegar the most useful information with a single action.

Write a paper: Daemonic Concealment of Karak Vlag

This is the big one that only we can write a paper on - Horstmann and his choir have got the Windfall covered, and everyone on the expedition saw what was up with Dum, but we're the only ones that can write this paper.

Attempt to recruit Egrimm van Horstmann into WEB-MAT

And speaking of the Horseman, I'd like to poach him. Getting a hierophant to join an institution headed by a shadowmancer is non-trivial, and here we have a ready made personal connection to use - and we can help an acquaintance get out of a really bad and stressful situation at the same time.

Putting it all together, that looks like:

[ ] Plan Redshirt v1
-[ ] MAX: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[ ] JOHANN: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[ ] DUCK: Attempt to recruit someone into the research branch of WEB-MAT: Adela
-[ ] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (Cult of Karnos, Talabecland)
-[ ] KAU: Establish the site of the KAU:
--[ ] In Karag Zilfin, just below Cython's territory
-[ ] Suggest Eike spend a few weeks in Karak Eight Peaks, so she can grow familiar with Dwarves and their ways.
-[ ] Organize and coordinate investigations by Miners and Prospectors and collate the information they gather into a unified map
--[ ] COIN: Gambler
-[ ] Attempt to recruit Egrimm van Horstmann into WEB-MAT
-[ ] Write a paper: Daemonic Concealment of Karak Vlag
 
Rafin said:
I disagree. He's just an actually fun character that Mathilde too has taken an IC liking to. Right now there's no more reason to suspect him of being a heretic than, say, the Celestial Magister that came along.

Imagine if he had another name. Like Enrico d'Boscaiolo for instance. Given Enrico's on screen characterization, Mathilde's relative fondness of him, his interest in Wind research and his suffering under the yoke of his Patriarch, would you still be against hiring him?
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Yes. I would rather have someone we have spent years with as opposed to a few months. I have no issues IC with him applying and us subsequently accepting him, but I don't want to actively recruit him.
With regards to the IC liking to, I got the impression, might be incorrect - but it is the impression I got, that the thread liking him was in part over compensation to avoid metagaming. This also comes from me personally not finding him as a favorite - this was before I knew who he was in canon. I also caught up with the quest during the expedition, so I missed some initial conversation especially the arguments on who to speak to.
 
I like Redshirt's plan, as my instincts are mostly negative in this case. I will actively fight attempts to fill out the spellbook (utterly useless) and I don't want the library in Karag Nar- it shouldn't be part of the human quarter, agree with whomever said that.

Other than that, I'm pretty open.
 
A few notes, @Redshirt Army:
  • You're missing Serenity and Penthouse actions.
  • Karag Zilfin is still kind of a mess:
BoneyM said:
Karag Zilfin is the tallest and westernmost peak of the eight and was once the home of the Karak's considerable industry and most prominent Clans, but currently the only part of it that doesn't stink of chemicals is occupied by Cython. It's faded to the point that it's merely unpleasant instead of actively harmful, but it still has a long way to go until anyone would willingly call it home.
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  • Why do we want Adela for our research institute? Nothing against her as a person, she's great, but we've collaborated with her on research before and she didn't exactly cover herself with glory. I think the Karag Nar Gunnery School connection will take care of itself.
 
I think plazing a library below the dragon is a potentially risky idea.
Better to place at the bottom of Karag NAr for easy access, and no change of disturbing an emperor dragons nap time.

Switch that and change recruiting Horstmann to tongs action and i am onboard with Redshirt plan.
 
My feelings on 'don't meta game' Horseman is mixed.

because I don't think we would have done as many actions with him if it was not for meta knowledge making him interesting to start with.

So the argument for picking him to join the WEB-MAT 'don't use meta knowledge!' Is a bit hypocritical.

If I vote for him, it's because that meta knowledge makes the gamble 'is he or is he not' interesting.
 
I don't suppose someone could give a quick run down of all the possible locations for the library, including potential pros and cons? I'm not super familiar with the locations within K8P.

I'm also wondering if it's possible if any of the ducklings will sign up independently without our involvement, or if they only way to get them is to actively recruit them.
 
Good catch on Serenity, that lets me fit in another action. As such, I decided to fit in tongs, since I see a lot of people want it.

[ ] Plan Redshirt v2
-[ ] MAX: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[ ] JOHANN: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[ ] DUCK: Attempt to recruit someone into the research branch of WEB-MAT: Adela
-[ ] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (Cult of Karnos, Talabecland)
-[ ] KAU: Establish the site of the KAU:
--[ ] In Karag Zilfin, just below Cython's territory
-[ ] Suggest Eike spend a few weeks in Karak Eight Peaks, so she can grow familiar with Dwarves and their ways.
-[ ] Organize and coordinate investigations by Miners and Prospectors and collate the information they gather into a unified map
--[ ] COIN: Gambler
-[ ] Investigate the possibility of using one Wind to directly manipulate another.
-[ ] Attempt to recruit Egrimm van Horstmann into WEB-MAT
-[ ] SERENITY: Write a paper: Daemonic Concealment of Karak Vlag
-[ ] PENTHOUSE: Build a basic tower of single-Wind environments for each of the 'missing' Winds: Light, Amber, Amethyst, and Gold

I really like the fantasy aesthetic of having a huge library underneath a dragon's lair, so a bit of work clearing out the remaining fumes seems worth it to me to get that - and in exchange, we get to put the library in a great place of pride, in what was the seat of power of the old K8P before the fall. Plus, y'know, dragon.
 
Silver Tower sounds awesome, but i am bit worried about space and having to renovate.
Just below Cython is bit out of the way and has risks i would prefer to avoud.
Near the entrance at the bottom of Karag Nar sounds great for user friendliness and is relatively close to us.
At the top of Karag Nar is less user friendly, but even easier for us to get to..
 
If we don't put the library below Cython, then my second choice would be the Hall of Reckonings - it's called the Library of the Silvery Depths, why not literally put it in the titular Silvery Depths?

My main concern is that the Hall of Reckonings is... kind of an important religious site to the dwarves. I'd rather not damage it if I could avoid it.

@BoneyM , if we did pick the Hall of Reckonings, would the dwarves go out of their way to preserve the site of religious importance, or is this a case of "if you don't want the giant institution to flatten the religious site, don't put it on the religious site"?
 
Redshirt Army said:
I really like the fantasy aesthetic of having a huge library underneath a dragon's lair, so a bit of work clearing out the remaining fumes seems worth it to me to get that - and in exchange, we get to put the library in a great place of pride, in what was the seat of power of the old K8P before the fall. Plus, y'know, dragon.
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I really prefer it in Nar, to create another attraction there and also have it closer to our Branch College, not all of our colleagues have a shadow horse.

I also am much more interested in finishing up our spell book or finally controlling our shadow than tongs.
 
I really don't want to put it in Nar. Nar is the closest to being "full" out of any of the K8P mountains, and I fully expect the population to keep growing. I'd strongly prefer to put the library in its own mountain, both for the more unlimited expansion space and for the cachet of being able to straight up declare that "this entire mountain is a library".
 
Redshirt Army said:
If we don't put the library below Cython, then my second choice would be the Hall of Reckonings - it's called the Library of the Silvery Depths, why not literally put it in the titular Silvery Depths?

My main concern is that the Hall of Reckonings is... kind of an important religious site to the dwarves. I'd rather not damage it if I could avoid it.

@BoneyM , if we did pick the Hall of Reckonings, would the dwarves go out of their way to preserve the site of religious importance, or is this a case of "if you don't want the giant institution to flatten the religious site, don't put it on the religious site"?
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Preserving it as a monument to the doomed defence of the Karak has one kind of value. Restoring it to its original purpose has another type of value. You can't do both at the same time. Dwarves would recognize either as suitable, and whether a particular Dwarf would prefer one or the other is a matter of personal philosophy.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I really don't want to put it in Nar. Nar is the closest to being "full" out of any of the K8P mountains, and I fully expect the population to keep growing. I'd strongly prefer to put the library in its own mountain, both for the more unlimited expansion space and for the cachet of being able to straight up declare that "this entire mountain is a library".
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None of the mountains struck me as even close to running into space problems.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I don't suppose someone could give a quick run down of all the possible locations for the library, including potential pros and cons? I'm not super familiar with the locations within K8P.
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Sure, here's my take:

In Karag Nar, just below your Penthouse
  • Pros: Easily accessible to Mathilde and to anyone coming in by gyrocopter, Karag Nar is where the humans of K8P are and has a large EIC presence
  • Cons: Being high up makes it less accessible to the general public, being right below Mathilde's place makes it seem more like her personal fief
In Karag Nar, easily accessible from the entrance
  • Pros: Karag Nar is where the humans of K8P are and has a large EIC presence, ground-level for easy access
  • Cons: That space is going to be heavily competed for as the human population grows, which it is set to do
In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
  • Pros: Currently a completely empty Karag, easily accessible from the populated areas of the Karak
  • Cons: No useful symbolism attached to it, it's just an empty mountain
In the Hall of Reckonings, far below the Citadel
  • Pros: Extremely powerful symbolism: this is in the Azril Ungol that the library is named after
  • Cons: Literally one of the most inaccessible possible spots in the entire Karak, the stairs down are described by Mathilde as longer than the stairs up to her Penthouse
In the Silver Tower, an ancient structure on the southwestern face of Karagril
  • Pros: Currently an empty structure, good symbolism (silversteel is what the pikes of the Undumgi are made of, so there's dwarf-human cooperation already served up on a platter)
  • Cons: Not accessible from the Eastern Valley, which is where the humans and halflings live
In Karag Zilfin, just below Cython's territory
  • Pros: Cython might give a shit about the library, currently unoccupied by dwarves
  • Cons: Zilfin is still detectably a place where chemical warfare took place and it is way out in a corner far from all the occupied areas of the Karak
The Lhune Depths, below Karag Lhune
  • Pros: Close to the occupied areas of the Karak, nearest to the We
  • Cons: We have no idea what's down there or whether the area is securable
As a result of making this list and thinking it through, I think my personal preference would be
Kvinn-Wyr, which is not symbolic but is conveniently accessible by everyone, gives the library an entire mountain to grow into, and doesn't stake out the library as belonging to any one group of K8P in particular.
 
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- [ ] In Karag Nar, just below your Penthouse

Pro Safe, easy access for us.

con: limited space, lots of stairs will make it hard to get too for most people.

- [ ] In Karag Nar, easily accessible from the entrance

Pro Safe, easy access for everyone.
Cons: very limited space (compared)

- [ ] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
Pro: lots of space to do what we want with
con: hard to defend as not as many people around.

- [ ] In the Hall of Reckonings, far below the Citadel
Pro: premade, close to the dwarfs
Con: dwarf politics?

- [ ] In the Silver Tower, an ancient structure on the southwestern face of Karagril
Pro: Premade, lots of space to do want we want
Con: on the less defend And populated side of K8Ps

- [ ] In Karag Zilfin, just below Cython's territory
Pro: lots of space, powerful, territorial dragon
Cons: still a bit of a shit pile from the skaven, powerful, territorial, dragon (being near him can go both ways)

-
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Pro: will be rad as hell.
Con: will be scary has hell
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Lhune is the mountain that is currently most occupied by Dwarves, it's next to Nar which is where the humans are, it's fairly accessible from the Eastern Valley which is where the Halflings are, and it's a relatively short underground jaunt from the Karagril-Black Crag front which is where the We are. So it's got that going for it, which is good because being the most likely location left in the Karak for Five Nights At Freddy's Mathilde's is a hell of a downside risk.
 
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