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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I maintain that Roswita made exactly the same kind of move that SV would've made in her shoes.

"We gave her a full recommendation so she can get a new job whereever she wants, so there should be no hard feelings. Besides, we just can't risk having one of our advisors literally explode at an inopportune moment, that's just common sense."

It wouldn't be the worst case of diplomacy I've seen SV talk itself into.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Hm, makes sense.
I went back and reread old chapters, and Belegar promised us that we had a lifetime invitation to K8P, not to this job. So Belegar's heirs can probably fire us easily - it's actually saying "all wizards out!" that might not be as simple.
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Exactly. Belegar's hangup is that he would feel personally awkward about replacing Mathilde after he came back from a field trip and she presented him with an additional five peaks reconquered, not that it would be strictly speaking "dishonorable" to move someone else into the Loremaster position.

In all honesty, resigning for another position might be the nicest thing Mathilde could do for Belegar. If a new problem shows up that he thinks needs human magic to solve, he now has the contacts to hire wizards himself (and that assumes that Mathilde is too busy to help and that none of the wizards living in K8P has the right expertise). In the meantime he would be able to move the boring legal Loremaster stuff off to someone else and get some of his personal AP back.
 
Omegahugger said:
I maintain that Roswita made exactly the same kind of move that SV would've made in her shoes.

"We gave her a full recommendation so she can get a new job whereever she wants, so there should be no hard feelings. Besides, we just can't risk having one of our advisors literally explode at an inopportune moment, that's just common sense."

It wouldn't be the worst case of diplomacy I've seen SV talk itself into.
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Most of the really poor diplomacy incidents I can recall were in fast-updating quests when the usual sanity checkers were asleep, but I can't deny that I've seen some big blunders regardless. Though I do expect think hope pray? SV would have at least managed not to openly insult Mathilde to her face on their first meeting.
 
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Omegahugger said:
It wouldn't be the worst case of diplomacy I've seen SV talk itself into.
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I remember once (either SB or SV) voted to go fly around the Simurgh as a nuclear powered touhou character because they just bought 'mastery resistance' and wanted to 'troll the ziz' with predictable results from the QM.

Also right now there is a currently winning vote on SB to make a brute character use a team-mate as a weapon on a Simurgh battle (projection quest). Against ziz launched debris, so goodluck with that closes door.


Don't underestimate memer trolls and their enablers.
 
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GrimTheMad said:
Thanks for her services, glowing letter of recommendation. Honesty about the actual reason for firing.
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Honesty that the actual reason was prejudice. A very deliberate attempt to get rid of us as soon as possible. The glowing letter of recommendation was because A) Her father had no criticisms she could use, B) She couldn't stand being around us for the few minutes it'd take to come up with a criticism and C) She wanted us gone ASAP.

Notably she wasn't just afraid of our magic, she thought mages were people who deserve to be cursed, and that we might be an exception. Not even that we were an exception, just might be one. She made it very clear that the glowing letter didn't reflect her own opinions but rather those of her late father.
 
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SCO said:
I remember once (either SB or SV) voted to go fly around the Simurgh as a nuclear powered touhou character because they just bought 'mastery resistance' with predictable results from the QM.
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If we're talking blunders in general, I don't think I've seen any that top 'Stab yourself in the heart and kill yourself'.

Yes, that was an actual non-joke non-troll vote that I saw win.
 
NSMS said:
If we're talking blunders in general, I don't think I've seen any that top 'Stab yourself in the heart and kill yourself'.

Yes, that was an actual non-joke non-troll vote that I saw win.
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I remember that! I wasn't around for the quest, but I looked it up later. It was a case of the players outsmarting themselves, having convinced themselves that it was a magic sword that would... something-something... achieve enlightenment/break an illusion effect and immediately come back to life. It was a Bleach quest.
 
kingreaper said:
One use of a great deed suggested was to put something on the agenda of the Elector Meet. That was the context in which this was intended - force them to defend their right to those two seats to the other Electors, who likely aren't that fond of three seats being held by the Church of Sigmar.

My phrasing was deliberately inflammatory and slightly silly, but I do actually think that decreasing the voting power of the Church of Sigmar is a feasible proposition - that they hold 3 votes while no-one else holds more than one is something that I'm certain many of the other Electors would like to change.
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It's called "Sigmar's Holy Empire".
BoneyM said:
Game it out. The three Sigmarite Electors vote no, Nordland votes no because they don't want to empower Middenland, Reikland probably votes no because the Sigmarite Electors having power is a Reikland advantage. Ar-Ulric and probably Middenland vote yes. You have to get six of the eight remaining votes: Ostland, Ostermark, Stirland, Wissenland, Talabecland, Hochland, Averland, and the Moot.
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Stirland votes no because Roswita is still a Sigmarite and the whole proposal is dumb. Talabecland votes no because the proposal wants to give the excess Sigmarite votes to Ulricans, who already have one, instead of Taal who has none, Wissenland votes no because they are majority Sigmarites, two of the three neighboring provinces are most probably voting no (the other being the Moot). The motion is denied.
Artemis1992 said:
It's a matter of how things are sold in that area.

Literally not a single peasant in the world will care about a reshuffling of Elector-votes. That's the kind of politics that has nothing to do with the cabbage on their field or the Beastmen in the nearest forest.
Many would care about political attacks on the Church of Sigmar.

Depending on which of those two messages is faster and better spread such threats have teeth or not.
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You massively underestimate the power of church propaganda. The Catholic/Orthodox schism was taken seriously by whole populations of multiple countries despite the nominal reason for it being a completely trivial theological dispute.
kingreaper said:
The idea that the Cult of Sigmar's reaction to having their political position challenged on the basis of their unwillingness to fulfil their own vows would be to engage in a murderous campaign of retribution makes me want to challenge their position more not less.

It paints a picture of the Cult of Sigmar that's just as much of a "we're not at war with this surreptious and manipulative threat to The Empire only because we're too afraid to be" as the Skaven.
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Just look how pious real world churches with worldly power have behaved throughout history when their power was challenged.
A_Somebody said:
The halflings did that of their own initiative in the hopes of having a second homeland. Not really "Empire Approved" except in that the Empire didn't try to ban its halfling population from emigrating elsewhere
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Well, it was approved by an Elector who probably was present at that shameful Elector Meet.

But this underlines another thing. It was the Emperor first and foremost who decided to send no aid because the heads of the two biggest religions and two ECs were playing silly buggers. The Grand Theogonist can't be blamed without also blaming the Emperor.
A_Somebody said:
Fair, but I think if the Empire went "we can't help because of a giant Beastmen invasion/Waaaggghh/etc" it would be a hell of a lot more sympathetic than what happened in quest aka "we're too busy squabbling against each other and aren't even gonna entertain your plea."
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The "Emperor" of the Dwarves themselves sent only his "Supreme Patriarch". Who probably went on his own and not because Thorgrim asked him to. Why should the Human Emperor send more than that out of his own pocket?
A_Somebody said:
Oh right. Somehow I keep on forgetting that. Still has the air of "in spite of the Empire" rather than "because of" when you look in the context of this being a side deal hammered out after the EC snubbed him as a whole. Especially since the halflings are an outlier in terms of Empire culture
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If there was no Empire then there definitely would be no Stirland with enough army left for 10,000 to desert to K8P.
Omegahugger said:
I maintain that Roswita made exactly the same kind of move that SV would've made in her shoes.

"We gave her a full recommendation so she can get a new job whereever she wants, so there should be no hard feelings. Besides, we just can't risk having one of our advisors literally explode at an inopportune moment, that's just common sense."

It wouldn't be the worst case of diplomacy I've seen SV talk itself into.
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SV would more likely hire six Wizards than fire one without talking to them.
NSMS said:
Most of the really poor diplomacy incidents I can recall were in fast-updating quests when the usual sanity checkers were asleep, but I can't deny that I've seen some big blunders regardless. Though I do expect think hope pray? SV would have at least managed not to openly insult Mathilde to her face on their first meeting.
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SV does some hilarious diplomatic blunders in Marked for Death.
 
Ericwinter said:
...I'm almost afraid to ask.
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Bleach quest. MC had found Aizen's sword and met with its spirit, and were meeting with her (I think) in his mind, with him holding the spirit's sword form as she challenged him or offered him power or something.

Someone managed to convince the quest that the correct answer was to use the sword to stab ourselves in the heart and kill ourself.

Three guesses what happened.
 
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Firing her straight away wasn't exactly optimal, but given that Roswita had a magic phobia, or at least a pretty strong fear, it's kind of forgivable.

I think the part that really cemented the early dislike is that she didn't follow up on the report Mathilde wrote or any of that stuff.
Briefvoice said:
I remember that! I wasn't around for the quest, but I looked it up later. It was a case of the players outsmarting themselves, having convinced themselves that it was a magic sword that would... something-something... achieve enlightenment/break an illusion effect and immediately come back to life. It was a Bleach quest.
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Oh, well if it's Bleach, then it's not the least reasonable thing in that franchise.
Hell, it starts with the MC stabbing himself for power.
 
Rafin said:
SV does some hilarious diplomatic blunders in Marked for Death.
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My favorite line ever from that quest:

"Anyway," Hazō said. "I wanted to let you all know why I was making the choice that I did. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to set a meeting with the Hokage so I can start training." He stood up and gave them all a wave before heading for the door.

"Try not to do a treason!" Noburi called after him.
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That is an NPC who has had to deal with one too many PC fuck-ups.

Also, if we take the job with Heidi that should be our farewell to her in every conversation.

"Good night, Heidi. Try not to do a treason!"
 
NSMS said:
Most of the really poor diplomacy incidents I can recall were in fast-updating quests when the usual sanity checkers were asleep, but I can't deny that I've seen some big blunders regardless. Though I do expect think hope pray? SV would have at least managed not to openly insult Mathilde to her face on their first meeting.
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I was specifically thinking of a time when SV repeatedly lobbed increasingly larger firestorms at the enemy territory, burning everything in their paths, and then was shocked when the token decent enemy hero refused to switch sides on account of all the burned villages (and also his friends that we'd killed over the course of the war, though IIRC that was secondary).

BurnNote said:
Oh, well if it's Bleach, then it's not the least reasonable thing in that franchise.
Hell, it starts with the MC stabbing himself for power.
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One important part of the story is that the QM did go out and say that it would end badly, and people still voted for it. An amazing piece of SV history.
 
Let's face it, sometimes we (people who vote in quests, not just people in this thread) can be really stupid.
Be it for greed, curiosity, or just refusing the believe the QM "would really do it".
 
NSMS said:
Bleach quest. MC had found Aizen's sword and met with its spirit, and were meeting with her (I think) in his mind, with him holding the spirit's sword form as she challenged him or offered him power or something.

Someone managed to convince the quest that the correct answer was to use the sword to stab ourselves in the heart and kill ourself.

Three guesses what happened.
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Should they have committed sudoku instead?
 
Omegahugger said:
I was specifically thinking of a time when SV repeatedly lobbed increasingly larger firestorms at the enemy territory, burning everything in their paths, and then was shocked when the token decent enemy hero refused to switch sides on account of all the burned villages (and also his friends that we'd killed over the course of the war, though IIRC that was secondary).


One important part of the story is that the QM did go out and say that it would end badly, and people still voted for it. An amazing piece of SV history.
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Considering the GM's username was 'TPK', as in 'Total Party Kill', you'd have thought people would have taken the warning a bit more seriously...
 
Omegahugger said:
One important part of the story is that the QM did go out and say that it would end badly, and people still voted for it. An amazing piece of SV history.
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TPK posted a full explanation about it a few years ago when it came up in the Pet Peeves thread if you wanna know the details behind the decision iirc.
Valmond said:
Be it for greed, curiosity, or just refusing the believe the QM "would really do it".
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I've learned to not call the bluff on the person running the game. My IRL DM has killed our party several times because we got cocky.

Ericwinter said:
Which one was this? I can remember a few that might fit, but don't recall any massive diplomacy fails as a result. That might just be my vague memories though.
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forums.spacebattles.com

Threat Quest - Nuclear Bird Simulator (Worm/Touhou Project)

This is a world of parahumans. Of heroes and villains, of capes and capers.I'm sure many of you...
forums.spacebattles.com forums.spacebattles.com

Most of it's took place on SV, but it was ported to SB after the NSFW controversy and had an update or two before dying.
 
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