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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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veekie said:
Theres quite a lot of evidence suggesting Morghur doesn't have a corruption aura, or if he does, there is a lot of energy invested into ensuring that what it does is being undone
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The trees appear normal and Borek isn't spawn, which enough evidence to get me to stay long enough to wait and see. But Chaos is not a toy and a chance of spawnhood is not to be chanced.

Nevermind the very real potential of quest end in a horrific way, no Mathilde means no RoW, MoD, or chalice.So fun things like "everyone dies" or "your word is worthless" if the witch gets away. There is no replacement for Mathilde's capabilities on this expedition, act accordingly or knowbody will learn anything about KD.
 
DragonParadox said:
I think your premise may be flawed here. Sure chaos dwarfs can wield magic, but they are all mutants. Hashut changed them to be able to use magic.
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this is incorrect. Gunnars let us know that Dwarves are magic resistant due to the ritual at birth not because they cannot do magic.

Hashut is also a greedy bastard that turns them to stone for using Hashut's power. Because Hashut dominates everything, and gives nothing without taking at least equally
 
DragonParadox said:
Because it involves waiting for a day in the chaos wastes, surrounded by chaos worshipers.
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All the options will eventually lead to that, except for the Leave one.

We won't chat with some Kurgans and then leave. We won't fight some Kurgans and then leave. We won't send a gift basket and then leave. We won't sacrifice some friend, foe or animal amd then leave.

And I don't mean we won't have the option to leave right after. I'm saying that none of those actions will solve the mystery for good and that the community that would vote for one lf those actions won't just give up after, except if something really bad happens.

And if Mathilde actually walks in there then the staying a day part is not the number one risk anyway.
 
The Void said:
For what seems to be the third time I'm reiterating this, firstly we can't say with 100% certainty that this is the Shadowgave given the existence of lookalikes, secondly its capabilities are in question due to the lack of an apparent Mutation Field, which may be vital to the Staff working, and thirdly we know the Winds are already gathering/being agitated by the Waystone.
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Nobody's saying that it's a certainty one way or the other. The issue at hand is that if one side is wrong, we miss out on some extra information to bring back, while if the other side is wrong, we turn into a Chaos spawn, and those outcomes do not weigh equally when we think about risk and reward.
 
JowKeen said:
this is incorrect. Gunnars let us know that Dwarves are magic resistant due to the ritual at birth not because they cannot do magic.

Hashut is also a greedy bastard that turns them to stone for using Hashut's power. Because Hashut dominates everything, and gives nothing without taking at least equally
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That doesn't follow logically. Yes they don't have inherent resistance but that doesn't mean they have an inherent ability to use magic. It's entirely possible that a dwarf is unable to use magic and prone to being turned to stone without the blessings, like an inferior halfling.
 
Before infiltrating , can we try to determin Morghur's intelligence with the whole gift package and throwing rock letter diplomacy, it might give us insight on what kind of person or animal he is, and how interested he is in talking.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
That is an excellent question.

Maybe he goes and picks them up since he usually respawns in the same place? But you'd think his killers would make a point of breaking them.
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After thinking a bit longer, he might be an awesome enchanter within his niche of expertise. Quest canon is that one can repeatedly create the same magic item with slight variations, bit that it is very very tedious. Once per life seems acceptable enough.
 
DragonParadox said:
In the interest I of honesty I have to say I have no interest in ever returning to this hellhole and I will actively campaign against it. I know this doesn't exactly help my position vis a vis taking risks but I feel like people deserve to know, especially since I think a lot of other voters feel similarly.
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Oh, for sure. The Chaos Wastes are bad juju.

Rafin said:
It would? Why? Medieval battlefields aren't usually all that wide afaik. Are they? I'm not an expert.
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You said real battlefields are less than 20km across, and the forest's opposite outer edge can't be more than 15km away, and that's if it's ~4km deep on each side. I was going off of the number you gave.

Rafin said:
After thinking a bit longer, he might be an awesome enchanter within his niche of expertise. Quest canon is that one can repeatedly create the same magic item with slight variations, bit that it is very very tedious. Once per life seems acceptable enough.
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He's far too insane to be enchanting, but it's possible they're mutated into existence alongside him each time, like the Cup we're going to take apparently does after it's broken.
 
ReImagined said:
Nobody's saying that it's a certainty one way or the other. The issue at hand is that if one side is wrong, we miss out on some extra information to bring back, while if the other side is wrong, we turn into a Chaos spawn, and those outcomes do not weigh equally when we think about risk and reward.
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Is it a guaranteed chance for Spawndom or just an increased chance of a preexisting possibility?
 
NSMS said:
While this is true... would you bet your own life on it meaning Mordred has absolutely no mutative aura, as opposed to something else going on?
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... Yeah?

Mathilde bets her life on shady shit she has no clear understanding of all the time.

A couple weeks ago she dammed a leyline (conventional College wisdom says: don't), then dragged a lost Karak that might have been full of Daemons out of the Warp. Then she fought a bunch of Daemons it released, and let a bunch of others run off into the mountains as too much trouble.
 
Guile said:
... Yeah?

Mathilde bets her life on shady shit she has no clear understanding of all the time.

A couple weeks ago she dammed a leyline (conventional College wisdom says: don't), then dragged a lost Karak that might have been full of Daemons out of the Warp. Then she fought a bunch of Daemons it released, and let a bunch of others run off into the mountains as too much trouble.
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Sure, conventional wisdom says don't, it does not say 'or you will become a Chaos Spawn'. Joe Random Necromancer plugs up waystones with no knowledge and less sense and most of them don't come out any worse out of it than they were.
 
DragonParadox said:
That doesn't follow logically. Yes they don't have inherent resistance but that doesn't mean they have an inherent ability to use magic. It's entirely possible that a dwarf is unable to use magic and prone to being turned to stone without the blessings, like an inferior halfling.
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the stone thing is a specifically Hashut thing, where Hashut is taking from them to amass more power. Because Hashut is terrible, and will never be a proper Chaos God.

So. In Warhammer the ability to wield magic is a talent and training thing, and except for the divine birth controlled Lizardmen (of the non-skink or slann variety) and Dwarves, every sentient being in Warhammer has at least one example of magic wielding.

I'd find it lame if the Dwarves in DL canon were locked from magic not because of the ritual but because "nah Hashut is telling the truth they can only cast magic through Hashut, and no other divinity would give them that capability"


Mopman43 said:
I mean... did they? What's the source that says that? I figured they just, well, sailed.
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I remembered it because of a Warhammer 2 design diary but thinking back, yeah they could just be sailing real fast lmao. You right
 
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Guile said:
... Yeah?

Mathilde bets her life on shady shit she has no clear understanding of all the time.

A couple weeks ago she dammed a leyline (conventional College wisdom says: don't), then dragged a lost Karak that might have been full of Daemons out of the Warp. Then she fought a bunch of Daemons it released, and let a bunch of others run off into the mountains as too much trouble.
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Its true that she had no choice but to gamble on Karag Vlag as there, is no other feesible option.

But sometimes some risk is unnecessary, if she did things smarter? for example why infiltrate , when she can try safe diplomacy first with Morghur, if she threw rock letters and gift packages, and he either picks them up or ignores them, then at best Mathilde does not have to risk her life and infiltrate, if he ignores it or does nothing, then he is probably slightly smarter than a dog, if he doesn't care about diplomacy at worst, she goes back to original plan of infiltration with knowlege of how smart her potential opponent is, losing nothing but time.
 
Guile said:
... Yeah?

Mathilde bets her life on shady shit she has no clear understanding of all the time.

A couple weeks ago she dammed a leyline (conventional College wisdom says: don't), then dragged a lost Karak that might have been full of Daemons out of the Warp. Then she fought a bunch of Daemons it released, and let a bunch of others run off into the mountains as too much trouble.
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Battle and risk taking in general is one thing. This is closer to shoving your hand into a vat that's labelled as highly concentrated sulphuric acid and the contents of which look exactly like sulphuric, but that oddly doesn't smell like it holds sulphuric acid. It could be that it's not dangerous, but the smart thing to do is assume that it is until you have proof otherwise. And we don't have that proof- some suggestive evidence, but nothing that can't be explained in other ways. And we also have a whole lot of historical precedent and information telling us that it is dangerous.

So until we have something solid, be cautious.
 
So, what do we know about Kvellige that makes us think they will be willing to do any peaceful interaction with us, or that we could trust anything they tell us about the Karak?
 
Now I remember what Borel walking off reminded me of!

The original dragon ball where the leader of the Red Ribbon Army reveals he wanted the dragon balls... to become taller, since he figured they were powerful enough to conquer the world by themselves, but that would not make him taller.

That's why Snorri is so pissed off, they sacrificed so much and then he goes "Oh well, that's it then, see you guys never" and fucks off.

A shame Gotrek died, i figure he would be the one most likely to be in a state of mind to grab him back the scruff of the neck and demand answers.
 
wrecksalot said:
Mathilde's 25 intrigue and advanced infiltration skill tells me she will be quite good at sneaking through forests. The fact that there isn't a single shred of evidence that this creature can actually do that, and three pieces of evidence against, headpat, trees, bones leads me to believe that he cannot do that, and the fact that the local Kurgan are unlikely to be friends of the Dawi, and therefore probably don't know what's up with Karag Dum.
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I was willing to attempt to gather more information from other methods but now... if this is the best argument you have

[X] Leave
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them

Sorry but it honestly doesn't matter if he can or can't turn Mathilde into a chaos spawn, the however many beastmen know the forests, we don't. The beastman know how to track in the forest, you have provided no proof that someone whose main experience with infiltration is to do with mountains and cities has any clue about what she is doing in deep forest seriously this isn't easy stuff to sneak through (and invisibility may help with some stuff but not sound or smell). We don't even know where the entrance is for Dum in the first place for goodness sake. How long do you expect us to take while blindly wondering round a forest (sure we know where the mountain is but that doesn't tell us much about how to get it)? How long do you expect people to wait for us?

Any attempt to actually infiltrate the forest or mountain at this time to me is the same as suicide. Especially if we are planning to do it by ourselves.

We are not a dwarf, nor have we been invited. We were told explicitly to leave by the people who actually live here.


Getting information from methods that make actual sense, such as basic experiments, or by trying to get information from people that makes sense... this doesn't.
 
I think Nehekara is the divine pantheon most likely to be involved with expanding a desert, while thumbing their nose at Chaos, while being known to Zorn, while being heretical to Karaz Ankor. That's the long and short of my idea tbh haha.

If the dwarves can worship HaSHIT and get magic and powers then the dwarves can probably worship Khsar or Ptra or Asaph and get magic and powers
 
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[X] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
 
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