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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Mark Hyko said:
These are Mathilde favors', not the colleges favors' or the empire favors'. All this talk of using the favors to help the colleges or even of asking our superiors for orders is seriously frustrating. Dwarves are very upthight about proper compensation, those favors are meant for us, as payment for something that we did. Of course we could use them to others benefit, but it is acceptable, even expected, that we use them for ourselves.

Why can't we be selfish once in a while ? This quest is called "Divided Loyalties" for Ranald's sake.
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To act on any motivation/drive is to attempt to satisfy it and in that light, all choices are selfish. One thing I see Mathilde wanting to do is to change the world she lives in.

So, people are throwing out ideas for what we can spend this Favour on and you want it to be more directly beneficial to Mathilde than "her choice helping make the world better for people". Which is fine.

Personally, I'm drawing a blank atm, so I am genuinely asking you: What things do you have in mind?
 
Mark Hyko said:
These are Mathilde's favors, not the colleges' favors or the empire's favors. All this talk of using the favors to help the colleges or even of asking our superiors for orders is seriously frustrating. Dwarves are very upthight about proper compensation, those favors are meant for us, as payment for something that we did. Of course we could use them to others benefit, but it is acceptable, even expected, that we use them for ourselves.

Why can't we be selfish once in a while ? This quest is called "Divided Loyalties" for Ranald's sake.
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Speaking for myself, because it's hard to think of something selfish that's grand enough to encompass some of the favors we get? Also it's not like Mathilde gets nothing from all that helping, favors are pretty useful.
 
Mark Hyko said:
Why can't we be selfish once in a while ? This quest is called "Divided Loyalties" for Ranald's sake.
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Right, but what would make for a selfish idea that Mathilde would want or need from the Runesmiths, considering Mathilde is already decked out in quite a good deal of Runic Gear? The origin of altruistic expenditures for Runesmith favors comes from the premise that there isn't very much Mathilde could frankly want or need from huge boatloads of Runesmith favor, except certain aspects of Runelore that might or might not be useful for her own intellectual ambitions. Might as well use it to change things for the better for institutions that Mathilde deeply identify with, such as the Grey Order. I think that until a feasible "grand" selfish idea is put on the table that is highly appealing to the thread consensus, helping the college is the line most discussions take on this issue.
 
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Mark Hyko said:
These are Mathilde's favors, not the colleges' favors or the empire favors. All this talk of using the favors to help the colleges or even of asking our superiors for orders is seriously frustrating. Dwarves are very upthight about proper compensation, those favors are meant for us, as payment for something that we did. Of course we could use them to others benefit, but it is acceptable, even expected, that we use them for ourselves.

Why can't we be selfish once in a while ? This quest is called "Divided Loyalties" for Ranald's sake.
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While I agree, keep in mind that Mathilde's whole thing is helping the Empire, Colleges, and Karak Eight Peaks. What was the line again "She has insane ambitions, but never for personal position"? Using this favor to help build relations between the colleges and the runesmiths, or any other form of "go help this organization that I'm apart of" is totally using it for herself from her perspective. Hell, it's a great feather in her cap, when we're already on the edge of becoming a Magister Lord, and the better off the Colleges are the better off she is, since it she is a part of the Colleges. Plus, you know, it routes right back around to the problem we have with our Trancendant Boon, mainly that anything sufficiently selfish enough wouldn't be big enough to qualify.
 
Mark Hyko said:
These are Mathilde's favors, not the colleges' favors or the empire's favors. All this talk of using the favors to help the colleges or even of asking our superiors for orders is seriously frustrating. Dwarves are very upthight about proper compensation, those favors are meant for us, as payment for something that we did. Of course we could use them to others benefit, but it is acceptable, even expected, that we use them for ourselves.

Why can't we be selfish once in a while ? This quest is called "Divided Loyalties" for Ranald's sake.
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Mostly in this case Mathilde is mostly tricked out in almost all possible equipment as it is, we've just ThreadMadnessed that. Which leaves infrastructure, but she's also been taking full advantage of that as well, with her towers.

Which leaves institutional. Runesmith/College cooperation can go far, is something beneficial to her, is something beneficial to the Empire, is something beneficial to the Runesmiths even...but nobody can initiate it without having the Runesmiths owe SOMEBODY a buttload.

...wonder if this is how Sigmar felt. He was just there to smite evil with his hammer and now he's got more Favor than outfitting a dozen people with top tier runework could use up.
 
BoneyM said:
From Mathilde's study of the Ratling Gun, there's a material the Skaven have access to but the Old World doesn't that we would recognize as rubber.
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Cool. I wonder if they use tunnels to a place with rubber trees, mutated homegrown flora/fauna, or actual biochemistry for that.
BoneyM said:
The Seed is relatively simple, as Mathilde uses it to save her life or when her injuries are debilitating.
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Can we update to having her also use it outside of battle when someone gets hurt enough to lose AP otherwise and we know about it and care about their AP (employer, colleagues, employees, trainees)?
Mark Hyko said:
These are Mathilde's favors, not the colleges' favors or the empire's favors. All this talk of using the favors to help the colleges or even of asking our superiors for orders is seriously frustrating. Dwarves are very upthight about proper compensation, those favors are meant for us, as payment for something that we did. Of course we could use them to others benefit, but it is acceptable, even expected, that we use them for ourselves.

Why can't we be selfish once in a while ? This quest is called "Divided Loyalties" for Ranald's sake.
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Because if a technologically advanced but secretive alien race became massively indebted to me, I would try and ask for something that can help many more people than just me. And maybe other players in this quest feel the same and/or feel that Mathilde has or should have similar character traits.
 
veekie said:
...wonder if this is how Sigmar felt. He was just there to smite evil with his hammer and now he's got more Favor than outfitting a dozen people with top tier runework could use up.
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The sad thing is this is a position Mathilde has been in multiple times, from our Boon to our Great Deed, and now to this.
 
NuclearConsensus said:
Speaking for myself, because it's hard to think of something selfish that's grand enough to encompass some of the favors we get? Also it's not like Mathilde gets nothing from all that helping, favors are pretty useful.
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Now I imagine Mathilde as a favor tradesman. Get favor from Dwarves, use them to buy things that are simple for them but amazing to Empire Wizards, use College favors to get simple magic help in ways the Dwarves haven't even thought about or to strike out as many Grudges in single swoops as possible, repeat. Maybe switch to a third favor economy if the low hanging fruits on one of the first two runs dry.

I only like that as an idle idea though. I'm not advocating to do that in this or any other quest because it's boring and really screws with a QM's ability to balance stuff.
 
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Mark Hyko said:
These are Mathilde's favors, not the colleges' favors or the empire's favors. All this talk of using the favors to help the colleges or even of asking our superiors for orders is seriously frustrating. Dwarves are very upthight about proper compensation, those favors are meant for us, as payment for something that we did. Of course we could use them to others benefit, but it is acceptable, even expected, that we use them for ourselves.

Why can't we be selfish once in a while ? This quest is called "Divided Loyalties" for Ranald's sake.
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That's one reason I like the idea of learning 'arcane dwarf'.

It also fits nicely into Mathilde's track record.

She's a wizard. Using favours to gain knowledge is very appropriate for her.
 
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Narasan said:
Lets just give the favour to the colleges, it would be nice to have, but the colleges can actually use it productively
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We could use it productively, to make sure that Wolf is running around in impregnable armor and won't ever get stabbed in the face. Who doesn't want our amazing puppy to get the thrill of eating orcs safely?
 
Alratan said:
That's one reason I like the idea of learning 'arcane dwarf'.

It also fits nicely into Mathilde's track record.
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Hmmm, random thought, but I wonder what would happen if we did that, and then used said knowledge to work on Bok and figure out how the five-rune thing works. Would we get even more shitloads of Runesmith favor? Since this whole thing really strikes me as the sort of payment for causing an entire paradigm shift in runecrafting, and that might actually be an even bigger one. We even technically found him in the first place.
Shador said:
Apparently mathilde went to Thorek this time. I guess Kragg was busy with Bok.
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Huh, that's interesting. So close, too.
 
Another interesting option is suggested by this:

BoneyM said:
Or have an expert collaborate on an enchantment project with her?
Would need to be arranged personally with the expert, but your rep would get you an introduction and their ear.
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Dwarves could collaborate with Mathilde on an enchantment project of hers. That's very intriguing, as it suggests that they know stuff that's applicable to Wind based crafting.

I'd be very interested to see if they'd teach us whatever that is, as it's probably not directly runelore. It could go very nicely with learning 'arcane dwarf'.

We'd probably want to exhaust the college time and enchanting clas
Ericwinter said:
Hmmm, random thought, but I wonder what would happen if we did that, and then used said knowledge to work on Bok and figure out how the five-rune thing works. Would we get even more shitloads of Runesmith favor? Since this whole thing really strikes me as the sort of payment for causing an entire paradigm shift in runecrafting, and that might actually be an even bigger one. We even technically found him in the first place.
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The best kind of favour repayment!
 
We are truly suffering for not actually having a party that can keep up with Mathilde to outfit. Why can't more Imperial soldiers or dwarven rangers just turn invisible or cover themselves in shadows so we could have a buddy to gear up and go murder with.
 
@BoneyM, apologies if I've asked this before, but I can't find it if I have, would asking for a runelord to investigate if they can come up with a runic combination on (gromril?) armour that can duplicate the ability of the Armour of Tarnus that it doesn't interfere with spellcasting be possible, or is it too small scale for this?
 
mc2rpg said:
We are truly suffering for not actually having a party that can keep up with Mathilde to outfit. Why can't more Imperial soldiers or dwarven rangers just turn invisible or cover themselves in shadows so we could have a buddy to gear up and go murder with.
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There's decking out Golden Boy though..... but I imagine he would have to become family for that to be possible.
 
Alratan said:
@BoneyM, apologies if I've asked this before, but I can't find it if I have, would asking for a runelord to investigate if they can come up with a runic combination on (gromril?) armour that can duplicate the ability of the Armour of Tarnus that it doesn't interfere with spellcasting be possible, or is it too small scale for this?
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Any runic armour would interfere with spellcasting, because runes are so different in nature to Wind magic.
 
BoneyM said:
Any runic armour would interfere with spellcasting, because runes are so different in nature to Wind magic.
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Presumably this would also apply to something like a shield, and you couldn't cheat by having a shield also be considered a weapon used for shieldbashes and have it stored away with the Rune of the Unknown while actively spellcasting while also having armour runes?

I ask because the first Master Rune of Adamant was apparently on a shield.

You could also drop a shield to spellcast and then pick it up, but that seems a bit risky...
 
Re: Selfishness, it's probably worth thinking about what it was we did to gather this favor and what uses would be similar in scope. If the AV really can bring some lostech infrastructure back online, we might as well have just saved the lives of an entire Karak. Possibly several Karaks, if the big win was knowledge rather than raw materials. So I think that it's perfectly fine to look for things to buy that benefit Mathilde indirectly, in the same way that Kragg - or the Runesmiths as a community - might be returning a favor that would have only benefited them indirectly.

More brainstorming:
  • Ask Ranald for ideas. I'm sure he has some.
  • Get a runesmith to do all the hands-on work for Mathilde's more questionable research problems, e.g. messing with Warpstone to confirm ideas about Skaven tech or attempting Ulgu tongs or AV trials that are very likely to produce dhar.
  • Straight-up teach Mathilde some of the more basic-principles dwarven runes, the kinds that would be useful for basic research into things like AV or that'd help Mathilde figure out underlying principles for all magic. Start building toward a Windsage successor, basically.
 
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Alratan said:
Presumably this would also apply to something like a shield, and you couldn't cheat by having a shield also be considered a weapon used for shieldbashes and have it stored away with the Rune of the Unknown while actively spellcasting while also having armour runes?

I ask because the first Master Rune of Adamant was apparently on a shield.

You could also drop a shield to spellcast and then pick it up, but that seems a bit risky...
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You're best off sticking with Aethyric Armour.
 
BoneyM said:
You're best off sticking with Aethyric Armour.
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Fair enough, the Master Rune of Adamant would just be such a nice thing to have.

Never mind then.

I don't want to pester with questions, so let me know if I should stop, but is there any mileage in the proposal I made above for asking for tuition based on whatever the collaboration with a dwarf expert to help Mathilde enchant an item would involve?
 
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