Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Germany
Too dangerous for me.
We might wake up something army-killing and then we can only pray for Asarnil to get good rolls.
I'm fine with destroying the castle, both as a symbol and with the current usurper inside.
Future purges can attempt to bring down potential threats to the Empire, I want the active one down.
- Location
- Earth
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
Okay, let's try to explain this.
The question being asked is this: how does the assembled forces react to offensive spellpower; who makes themselves vulnerable by exposing themselves to it, and who protects themselves as best they can from the effects. There is no 'all of the above' option, because it just makes everyone vulnerable and has people getting in each other's way - all of the downsides for none of the upsides.
1. If Asarnil is on counterspell duty, then the artillery will take cover from or otherwise seek to protect themselves from the effects of enemy spells, which keep in mind are not only directly offensive like the Doombolt in the town, but also area-of-effect spells that have a lingering and cumulative effect, or spells that raise or summon varies undead gribblies remotely.
2. If the artillery is on counterspell duty, then they can't take cover at sign of enemy spellcasting - they will be preparing to train and fire on any evidence of message regarding where it came from.
3. If Mathilde is on counterspell duty - and this is a topic that hasn't been touched on before so part of what I'm getting annoyed at the thread for is not being mind-readers, so my apologies - then both Asarnil and the artillery can reduce their exposure to enemy spellcasters and only have to deal with the effects. Mathilde, meanwhile, is dealing with counterspelling.
The way that the Patriarch of the Amethyst Order dealt with enemy spells was to swat them like a fly; this is akin to the most skilled bomb defuser in the world taking a look inside the inner workings of a bomb and then contemptuously smashes it with a hammer. Mathilde is, hopefully needless to say, not as skilled as the Patriarch of the Amethyst Order; here knowledge of magical fundamentals would give her a definite edge and that she has had apprentice-level training in dispelling is likely worlds ahead of the self-taught fumbling of the average Sylvanian necromancer, but it still means she's not bringing a hammer in her defusal kit. For the doombolt, she would have wrapped the spell in Ulgu, slowing it from arrow-fast to much more sluggish, used the extra time she bought to examine it's workings, and tried to either unravel or overload it mid-flight. For a longer-term spell, such as a summoning spell, she'd have even longer to work with and it would effectively be cutting strings as the enemy spellcaster is trying to weave a pattern out of them - one skilled or prepared or fast enough can replace what she cuts, but otherwise the spell will either fizzle or miscast. These are generalizations, and in practice it would vary as much as casters and spells do - that is to say, a lot. And delivering dragonfire or cannonbolts into the mix would rarely be a good thing for Mathilde.
I'll add a section on counterspelling to the spellbook within the next few hours.
The question being asked is this: how does the assembled forces react to offensive spellpower; who makes themselves vulnerable by exposing themselves to it, and who protects themselves as best they can from the effects. There is no 'all of the above' option, because it just makes everyone vulnerable and has people getting in each other's way - all of the downsides for none of the upsides.
1. If Asarnil is on counterspell duty, then the artillery will take cover from or otherwise seek to protect themselves from the effects of enemy spells, which keep in mind are not only directly offensive like the Doombolt in the town, but also area-of-effect spells that have a lingering and cumulative effect, or spells that raise or summon varies undead gribblies remotely.
2. If the artillery is on counterspell duty, then they can't take cover at sign of enemy spellcasting - they will be preparing to train and fire on any evidence of message regarding where it came from.
3. If Mathilde is on counterspell duty - and this is a topic that hasn't been touched on before so part of what I'm getting annoyed at the thread for is not being mind-readers, so my apologies - then both Asarnil and the artillery can reduce their exposure to enemy spellcasters and only have to deal with the effects. Mathilde, meanwhile, is dealing with counterspelling.
The way that the Patriarch of the Amethyst Order dealt with enemy spells was to swat them like a fly; this is akin to the most skilled bomb defuser in the world taking a look inside the inner workings of a bomb and then contemptuously smashes it with a hammer. Mathilde is, hopefully needless to say, not as skilled as the Patriarch of the Amethyst Order; here knowledge of magical fundamentals would give her a definite edge and that she has had apprentice-level training in dispelling is likely worlds ahead of the self-taught fumbling of the average Sylvanian necromancer, but it still means she's not bringing a hammer in her defusal kit. For the doombolt, she would have wrapped the spell in Ulgu, slowing it from arrow-fast to much more sluggish, used the extra time she bought to examine it's workings, and tried to either unravel or overload it mid-flight. For a longer-term spell, such as a summoning spell, she'd have even longer to work with and it would effectively be cutting strings as the enemy spellcaster is trying to weave a pattern out of them - one skilled or prepared or fast enough can replace what she cuts, but otherwise the spell will either fizzle or miscast. These are generalizations, and in practice it would vary as much as casters and spells do - that is to say, a lot. And delivering dragonfire or cannonbolts into the mix would rarely be a good thing for Mathilde.
I'll add a section on counterspelling to the spellbook within the next few hours.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Attempt to counter it yourself.
If we're facing a spell we can't counter, then we can call in help. Otherwise, with the possible exception of the Countess, we have the advantage here. The average skill of the enemy necromancers we faced in the town was pathetic, and even if there are more skilled ones in the castle, they'll still be at a level that we can beat them at. We might be too injured to go swinging swords, but counterspelling is a perfect role for us in this fight, and lets our cannons be less exposed to destruction while letting them focus on the siege in general much better. Yes, I disagree with the current consensus. We sould risk ourselves here, because direct dispelling is both much more pragmatic and we have the fallback of cannons/dragon if we fail. Otherwise, we'll be much more often having the cannons fire after enemy spells aleady take their toll on our army/cannons. And we cannot afford to loose our cannons.
If we're facing a spell we can't counter, then we can call in help. Otherwise, with the possible exception of the Countess, we have the advantage here. The average skill of the enemy necromancers we faced in the town was pathetic, and even if there are more skilled ones in the castle, they'll still be at a level that we can beat them at. We might be too injured to go swinging swords, but counterspelling is a perfect role for us in this fight, and lets our cannons be less exposed to destruction while letting them focus on the siege in general much better. Yes, I disagree with the current consensus. We sould risk ourselves here, because direct dispelling is both much more pragmatic and we have the fallback of cannons/dragon if we fail. Otherwise, we'll be much more often having the cannons fire after enemy spells aleady take their toll on our army/cannons. And we cannot afford to loose our cannons.
I don't think we can rely on Mathilde's skill to overcome the brute force and crazy moves that might be thrown our way. We only have 1 dragon and his rider is not that tough. To put it brutally, we have enough guns to absorb the extra losses that counterbattery duty will cause and still put 10 lb balls of iron through a necromancer at 150 mph. Mathilde is best used as spotter and marker for the artillery.
Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
There seems to be a number of problems with wanting to counterspell with Mathilde. The big one being we don't actually know the skill and number of enemy casters but it's presumably better than one journeywoman who's never done counterspelling on enemy combat magic before.
The next really big issue is that we now know the counterspelling is dangerous if the enemy caster is interrupted and considering that presumably everyone will want to shoot at any necromancers in sight means Mathilde is probably going to have it happen at least once. It's probably best to just go after spells that remain in effect and leave counterspelling to the guns.
The next really big issue is that we now know the counterspelling is dangerous if the enemy caster is interrupted and considering that presumably everyone will want to shoot at any necromancers in sight means Mathilde is probably going to have it happen at least once. It's probably best to just go after spells that remain in effect and leave counterspelling to the guns.
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Keep in mind that if Mathilde dies in battle then there's a locked box with worrisome content floating around, with no one more competent than Gustav, a random non-caster priest or, if we're lucky, dwarfs, to know what to do with it.
And if the battle becomes a rout after we die then instead we have Sylvania recapture the original Liber Mortis, either immediately or whenever someone thinks to open a random magical box in an enemy command tent near Drakenhof. Or in other words, Striland will be doomed in somewhere between 1 and 10 years.
- Location
- Malaysia
[X] Attempt to counter it yourself.
In_lurk_shadow
[ ]
- Location
- here and there
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Attempt to counter it yourself.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Attempt to counter it yourself.
MacroDaemon
Lachrymose Lapis
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Attempt to counter it yourself.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Attempt to counter it yourself.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
Inserted tally
Well, it IS noted that Mathilde is actually a formally trained professional, while the necromancers aren't.
My reading on that indicates that the enemy might well not be all that familiar with their spells being countered...but on the flip side there can be a lot more of them and so we can potentially win every counterspell duel and still lose because theres more of them and they'd keep casting.
So the strategy difference lies in:
-Asarnil on Counterspell - Artillery is conserved as they go into cover whenever a caster comes out. Asarnil relies on bullshit dragon magic resistance to flame the offending mage off the map. However, enemy elites pushing on the ground would be poorly covered, we'd be relying on Men, and Steel to counter vampires and wights that manage to close in past the artillery bombardment. Alternatively we can have Asarnil deal with BOTH counterattack forces and counterspell and thus suck at both.
-Artlllery on Counterspell - Asarnil is free to go duel any and all their heroes or sally forces. They are going to fail. The artillery pieces will suffer attrition from being blasted, we'd be relying mainly on Mathilde sighting the casters BEFORE they finish their spells, slapping a target light on and letting the dwarfs have at it. This would have a higher risk of failing the Mountain or Castle wrecking, lose enough artillery and it no longer is possible.
-Mathilde on Counterspell - Asarnil is free to reduce champions to dust, artillery is free to stay behind cover...but lone Journeyman Wizard doing countermagic whenever their necromancers show up has a distinct possibility of being quite outgunned in number if not necessarily in skill. I'd point out whoever invented the Bound Spell is certainly pretty skilled to make it work at all with Dhar, and that the long distance spell going from Drakenhof to Wurtbad points to some significant ability...
Now if only the Ameythst battle wizards show up everything would be just fine.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
We should publish a full report to the colleges regarding the wizardry part of this campaign, both good and bad.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Cover? What cover will artillery have from casters looking down from a castle halfway up a mountain? I mean, if the dwarves snap-build us a covered wooden fortress with ship-style firing ports... but I don't consider that very likely.
The artillery will be exposed all the time, just like the men.
@BoneyM How badly is Mathilde affected at the moment, by wounds, fatigue etc? How is she feeling, and how does she assess her own ability to counterspell is affected by them?
Mathilde is a single heavy wounded apprentice burdened by command duty.
I mean, the QM said so.
- Location
- Aotearoa
I took that to mean the artillerymen and artillerydwarves. The guns themselves might well be the cover they have available.
The other thing to consider is eroding enemy spellcasting ability. I don't think Mathilde has much going for her there, unless her counterspelling happens to make the spell backfire badly on the caster. Artillery, admittedly after taking the hit, has a chance to kill the caster.