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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Tobtorp said:
We've could have done that ourselves ages ago but the thread is unwilling to go for it. Hell we could have send feelers into nordland and middenland to learn more about the current problems but people decided that wasn't important enough we need to make a trade route for charcoal.
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Sure, but presumably doing stuff like this via Boon means it skips Mathilde having to do any of that work or spend actions, and it just happens. I'm not particularly bothered either way in the end, and was just responding to pickle's request for ideas.
 
Tobtorp said:
We've could have done that ourselves ages ago but the thread is unwilling to go for it. Hell we could have send feelers into nordland and middenland to learn more about the current problems but people decided that wasn't important enough we need to make a trade route for charcoal.
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The issue, as I've mentioned a few times, is that the EIC has no presence in Nordland and barely any in Middenland.
Boney said:
Complete dominance over Stirland government contracts.
Complete dominance over supplying goods and services in Karag Nar.
Complete dominance over Western Stirland gong farming.
Complete dominance of intra-Stirland trade.
Moderate dominance over trade in Stirlandian wool products.
Moderate dominance on the Aver.
Moderate presence in interstate trade in Stirland, the Moot, and Talabecland.
Minor presence in interstate trade in Averland, Wissenland, and southern Middenland.
Minor presence in Nuln, Altdorf, and Middenheim.
Minor presence in Barak Varr and Ulrikadrin.
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We don't have a random spy network that can go anywhere and do anything. We have handlers embedded within the EIC. This is good because it means that within their sphere of operations they just look like any other merchant interested in information, but it's bad because our spy network isn't where the EIC isn't. There was one time when we took an infiltration action for an area where we had no EIC penetration and it basically just consisted of the Hochlander riding in and looking around, and didn't yield much.

Some of the issue with the EIC has been with people not wanting to use it for spy shit, yes, but a lot of it has been that we're literally on the other side of the Empire from where it's most useful. The whole point of my request from the Grey Order is to fix that, because I'd like to do more cool spy shit if we weren't held back by a lack of sophont resources.
 
ArcanaVitae said:
Laundering the Second Secret officially would be very useful for the Colleges.
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It would be. But do not forget two things:
  1. if you know the Second Secret, you almost definitionally know the First Secret as well because "Here's an extremely neat trick to break the chains of Dhar that all competent dark magicians use for their bad magic" perforce requires that you inform your students that chains of Dhar exist and are useful for the bad magic. If you believe the secret that lets you counter structured Dhar is worth making the average black magister more competent, then fair enough
  2. Just because we get dispensation that lets us go "Wow neat, Second Secret" does not actually make the Second Secret any less Article-breaking for the average wizard. It requires that you use Dhar to break Dhar. That is a "please select your pyre, our witch hunters will be with you momentarily" technique. Permission for a single individual to 'research' it and publish extremely classified brochures doesn't actually make it a legal technique for the Colleges as a whole to use.
 
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picklepikkl said:
The issue, as I've mentioned a few times, is that the EIC has no presence in Nordland and barely any in Middenland.

We don't have a random spy network that can go anywhere and do anything. We have handlers embedded within the EIC. This is good because it means that within their sphere of operations they just look like any other merchant interested in information, but it's bad because our spy network isn't where the EIC isn't. There was one time when we took an infiltration action for an area where we had no EIC penetration and it basically just consisted of the Hochlander riding in and looking around, and didn't yield much.

Some of the issue with the EIC has been with people not wanting to use it for spy shit, yes, but a lot of it has been that we're literally on the other side of the Empire from where it's most useful. The whole point of my request from the Grey Order is to fix that, because I'd like to do more cool spy shit if we weren't held back by a lack of sophont resources.
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Man IF ONLY we could INSERT our agents into PROVINCES to gather their SECRETS. IF ONLY!
Boney said:
[ ] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (specify who)
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As for only having the hochlander as an agent? That was back when he literally was our only agent, we refused to let him make a headquarters where he could train more agents for actual missions.
This action specifically
Boney said:
[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
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We even knew that this was the one we needed for that.
We did the that action like 2 turns ago. We had it for like 15 I'd want to say.
 
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I must admit even tough i expected reaction to be hidden/restrained i tought they would be more surprised/happy about this reveal,my understanding was that it's supposed to be a very good and unexpected news for them.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Chat shit by fast, is there a post or two that lays out the airship thing in detail?
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It'd be roughly three times faster than the tower, or roughly ten times faster if it had to land instead of hovering indefinitely. So we can choose that.

It'd need some crew because the magical vibes of the ship require it, while tower could probably be flown solo. Tower would have a lot more room.

We can also choose general aesthetics and, presumably, some other details. It'd be a true masterpiece with no expense spared. Pretty bonkers from the sounds of it, as "you would be hard pressed to meaningfully make it better than getting it as the sole boon". We can get it coated with steel, given the dropped comments.
 
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Tobtorp said:
Man IF ONLY we could INSERT our agents into PROVINCES to gather their SECRETS. IF ONLY!
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Ok, clearly you aren't reading my posts, because I specifically addressed that. We took that action once where we didn't have any presence and it accomplished basically bupkis. We need an EIC presence for it to be useful.

Do you think I'm trying to sabotage the cause of spying by misrepresenting the mechanics or something? If you think I'm wrong, argue from evidence, don't just be snarky and dismissive like you're trying to ratio me on Twitter.
 
picklepikkl said:
Ok, clearly you aren't reading my posts, because I specifically addressed that. We took that action once where we didn't have any presence and it accomplished basically bupkis. We need an EIC presence for it to be useful.

Do you think I'm trying to sabotage the cause of spying by misrepresenting the mechanics or something? If you think I'm wrong, argue from evidence, don't just be snarky and dismissive like you're trying to ratio me on Twitter.
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Yeah sorry, edited the evidence back on my original post, about that headquarters, where agents could be trained for missions, you know. But your right I only did the research after.
 
Tobtorp said:
Man IF ONLY we could INSERT our agents into PROVINCES to gather their SECRETS. IF ONLY!
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That still relies on an EIC presence. Otherwise, it's not an EIC action. We could insert agents in Talabecland or the cult of Kurnous, because the EIC is already there. It's got employees and contacts that can be used. That's not the case in places where there's no EIC.
 
Unfortunate. I prefer something personally useful as well as quite cool. Like a floating Palanquin with inbuilt force fields and all eight Orbs of Sorcery allowing for bound spell affects and personal enhancement of Ulgu.
 
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Gavin Prince said:
It would be. But do not forget two things:
  1. if you know the Second Secret, you almost definitionally know the First Secret as well because "Here's an extremely neat trick to break the chains of Dhar that all competent dark magicians use for their bad magic" perforce requires that you inform your students that chains of Dhar exist and are useful for the bad magic. If you believe the secret that lets you counter dhar is worth making the average black magister more competent, then fair enough
  2. Just because we get dispensation that lets us go "Wow neat, Second Secret" does not actually make the Second Secret any less Article-breaking for the average wizard. It requires that you use Dhar to break Dhar. That is a "please select your pyre, our witch hunters will be with you momentarily" technique. Permission for a single individual to 'research' it and publish extremely classified brochures doesn't actually make it a legal technique.
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The dispensation would likely extend to us being allowed to use it, would give us the ability to actually try to figure out if another wind could hypothetically manipulate dhar in the right way, and give the top brass (patriarchs and matriarchs) the ability to open an envelope, follow its instructions, and delete an undead army. If it needs wider dissemination than the top brass of the colleges and us, we're in a situation where necromancer armies big enough to take over a province are common, and there are bigger problems.

Though even then, Ulgu can wipe minds. Opening a brochure, doing what it says, and then having the past 5 minutes of your memory wiped isn't impossible, IIRC.
 
MrHobbit said:
Why would the forces that Mathilde can muster only consist of battle mages? If we are talking to the Elector Count of Talabecland and we've convinced him that the Marcher Fortress is important enough to recover, why wouldn't we be bringing battle altars? We're not going to retake the Marcher Fortress, because it is literally the worst. But the point is there. It'd take more favor trading, but I think we can assume the Colleges of Magic aren't so incompetent that they would make it entirely unreasonable to for Mathilde rally a battle altar to campaign.
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I mean, I remember when the Elector Count of Stirland thought Drakenhof was important enough to recover. We (he) asked two of the Colleges, one decided that "their attentions were needed elsewhere" and only 'sent' a single Wizard who thought that would fit his idea of a holiday, and the other did send their Magister Patriarch but only because of Something Else going on in the background which we still don't know what it was. No rituals, no choruses, certainly no Battle Altars. By calling in this boon we'd get the Colleges to give their 100%.
 
neutronium95 said:
I really like the flying tower/ship idea, but there is one potential snag. In the past Boney has said that items enchanted with flight spells would be susceptible to being dispelled by enemies, and I would prefer to not have a base with such a glaring weakness. I assume there will be ways to mitigate that, but I don't know if that vulnerability can be fully patched out.
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If you enchant with flight AND include liftgas than the enemy needs to both dispel AND puncture the liftgas chamber :V
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Unfortunate. I prefer something personally useful as well as quite cool.
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It would allow us to establish a base of operations nearly anywhere. Currently, we have a lab in K8P and a lab in Laurelorn, and we can borrow facilities in Altdorf, which has suited our needs so far, but if we needed to leave the Empire for some reason, we could essentially bring everything we need with us.

It would also work as a mothership for the gyrocarriage, meaning that we wouldn't have to stay within refuelling distance of a Karak all the time.

It's not essential, and it's not something we've needed before, but I think it will expand a lot of our options for future actions and could be really interesting, in addition to being really cool.
 
rocketroland999 said:
The dispensation would likely extend to us being allowed to use it, would give us the ability to actually try to figure out if another wind could hypothetically manipulate dhar in the right way, and give the top brass (patriarchs and matriarchs) the ability to open an envelope, follow its instructions, and delete an undead army. If it needs wider dissemination than the top brass of the colleges and us, we're in a situation where necromancer armies big enough to take over a province are common, and there are bigger problems.

Though even then, Ulgu can wipe minds. Opening a brochure, doing what it says, and then having the past 5 minutes of your memory wiped isn't impossible, IIRC.
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Oh, absolutely. I'm not declaring that personal dispensation to research Dhar-counters is useless. Boney doesn't offer trap options. It will be extremely useful for Mathilde personally, letting her use her existing knowledge fairly freely.

What I'm saying, rather, is that it is a personal reward. Dispensation that lets us use the Second Secret ourselves with "here's my Dhar licence, officer". I'm not voting for it, but if we vote for it, I'm absolutely behind doing the second-secret-training action that's been available since we read Vanhel's trapper-keeper. But just because Mathilde can avoid the pyre for using the Second Secret does not translate to every Magister of the Colleges getting the same licence. A vote for that option is a personal power-up and a route to publishing very classified papers that may act as an unofficial College-based backup to the Sigmarite-controlled copy of the Liber Mortis in a "break glass in case of zombie apocalypse" fashion. That's it.
 
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Anyway, I've incorporated some feedback and ideas from the thread, and I think I'm actually pretty happy with this one. Presenting the Mark Four:

[] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV
-[] Ambers: The secret behind Flock of Doom
-[] Lights: KAU partnership with the Light Order's Ancient Library
-[] Golds: A We-silk robe enchanted for combat defense
-[] Jades: Pure CF
-[] Celestials: Bankroll for upcoming magical curiosities shopping trip in Lothern
-[] Greys: Operatives to expand the reach of the EIC intel network
-[] Amethysts: Information on what Hexensohn was doing under Drakenhof and why
-[] Brights: Gyrocarriage enchanted with Inextinguishable Flame

This worked out to a nice 2-2-2-2 distribution, something for everyone.
  • From the Ambers and Amethysts, some secrets, asked for mostly to assuage our curiosity rather than because we expect to gain power from them.
  • From the Lights and Greys, some assets for the institutions Mathilde controls
  • From the Golds and Brights, enchanted items that Mathilde is too busy to make herself any time soon
  • From the Jades and Celestials, raw resources that can be exchanged for goods and services
The idea was raised to get a defensively-enchanted We-silk robe from someone else. The Jade defensive spell at Fiendishly Complex wasn't great because it slows you down in exchange for strength, but that's not really a factor with Branulhune. The Amber spells were okay, but I really want to know what the deal is with Corvus the Crow Lord. But I was just asking for money from the Golds, so I swapped around who I was asking for that because Golds, unsurprisingly, have a bunch of great defensive enchantments, and Guard of Steel (for example) has already been OKed as stacking with Aethyric Armour. And then I changed the request wording to the Greys in response to suggestions.

I actually feel pretty good about this one. It doesn't do any one thing as well as the single-boon suggestions, but it does a bunch of different things simultaneously, and maybe people will prefer that.
 
I think airships are sick as hell, so I know exactly what I want. Building the thing will be fun and crewing it will be doubly as enjoyable.

[] A flying Ship
 
picklepikkl said:
Anyway, I've incorporated some feedback and ideas from the thread, and I think I'm actually pretty happy with this one. Presenting the Mark Four:

[] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV
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Yeah, I really like this, even more than my previous favorite of the Von Tarnus Armor. I'll still be voting for that and tenure because Rewards R Cool but man this is a banger.
 
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