The Ulgu Dragon probably does not exist and probably cannot hurt you.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Greece
Hmmmmm... what if the colleges were to research existing arcane marks and collate records on how they happened when wizards are willing to indulge? A long enough record would probably give valuable intel.
Granted, considering not every wizard is likely to want to participate, making a long enough record would prolly take centuries, but eh, that's why its important to start early.
Granted, considering not every wizard is likely to want to participate, making a long enough record would prolly take centuries, but eh, that's why its important to start early.
That might give you an idea of what part of the soul to start mutilating, but there's no secular route that can completely bypass this. If you want to figure out pottery, you have to stick your hands in the clay. Except the clay is people.
- Pronouns
- He
Would starting with animal testing be a viable idea, or are their souls just too different?
Mayhaps Goblins could work as they'd be easier to acquire, but possible Gork and Mork action would be too risky, and Beastmen are Chaos Tainted which probably ruins the whole experiment even if you discount the risks.
Mayhaps Goblins could work as they'd be easier to acquire, but possible Gork and Mork action would be too risky, and Beastmen are Chaos Tainted which probably ruins the whole experiment even if you discount the risks.
Last edited:
Different in the way that a pond is different to an ocean. Same basic substance and plenty of other commonalities if you go looking for them and in theory you could extrapolate, but realistically there's plenty you can never learn about the ocean from a pond.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Suddenly thinking about how AV god crystals were something we chose not to do largely on the basis of not having enough time to dedicate to yet another research tree to justify the risk.
Depending on how Eike turns out, I wonder if we can pass on the project to her? Real master/apprentice secret sauce style.
- Location
- Greece
I know this is extremely cynical and to be frank, morally abhorrent, but this is Warhammer, they have used this solution in canon if I remember correctly (I may not be, only got knowledge though thread osmosis), so I have to ask more out of worldbuilding curiosity than a genuine desire to do it...
Why do the colleges not use death row prisoners, or something like that? The Empire is not opposed to that sort of thing. Heck, Mathilde has experimented in captives/prisoners that weren't even meant to die before, when she was perfecting how to break a person with mindhole.
Why do the colleges not use death row prisoners, or something like that? The Empire is not opposed to that sort of thing. Heck, Mathilde has experimented in captives/prisoners that weren't even meant to die before, when she was perfecting how to break a person with mindhole.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Because it's a common in-universe view (and to an uncertain degree a metaphysical truth) that mutation screws with your soul and stakes Chaos' claim on it. Death row prisoners will die, sure, but the Empire's not going to go for a process that damns peoples' souls to Chaos, much like how even the most abhorrent murderer or the like will still be buried in a Garden of Morr to protect their soul. It's not about caring what happens to those people, it's about refusing to let those people's passing make Chaos stronger.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
People in general are also still scared of magic. It's one thing to make sacrifices of captured enemy soldiers prisoners sometimes to make Incarnate Elementals, but that's necessity at work. The Empire does not want the Colleges to get deep in the human sacrifice pool, and neither do the Colleges want to be associated with human sacrifice. Their PR is still far from ideal.
Last edited:
Do we really think it will give us usable results if we built a secret (and therefore inevitably understaffed) prison filled with the worst people we can find and do things to them that will change them in ways we cannot even begin to predict and will fill them with very justified hatred towards us? The least bad way that could go, on top of a long long long list of very very very bad scenarios, is we make Deadpool. And things still go very poorly for the guy that makes Deadpool.
Any magical institution in this setting more than a couple of decades old must have the ability to recognize and say no to horror media synopses pitched as interesting experiments, because if they didn't they wouldn't have reached that age. So when someone comes to them with a grant proposal to build the asylum from Outlast, they're ready with a very firm 'no'.
Any magical institution in this setting more than a couple of decades old must have the ability to recognize and say no to horror media synopses pitched as interesting experiments, because if they didn't they wouldn't have reached that age. So when someone comes to them with a grant proposal to build the asylum from Outlast, they're ready with a very firm 'no'.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So, depending on exactly what we are trying to do here, there are ways I could see us approaching it. For example, if a wizard gets an arcane mark that they would rather die than keep, or a mutant whose mutation maybe comes from their soul and wants to get rid of it, they might be willing to volunteer for an experiment that will probably at best mutilate their soul to deal with it. And if there was a way to do those attempts to help and record the results, over time that might result in enough understanding of the soul to do other stuff with less risk.
Or collecting information about arcane marks, familiar bonds, soul damage from more exotic sources, getting the Golds to do regular soul measurement of their non-Wizard staff who spend all of their time in mono-wind areas and so on.
Or doing 'dynamic scholarship' to the knowledge of followers of unsanctioned death gods (like Ereth Khial among the Druchii).
But the AP hell is real; figuring out how to use influence to get this stuff recorded and collated by others in an organised way over time is probably more likely (with maybe the exception of the 'dynamic scholarship').
Or collecting information about arcane marks, familiar bonds, soul damage from more exotic sources, getting the Golds to do regular soul measurement of their non-Wizard staff who spend all of their time in mono-wind areas and so on.
Or doing 'dynamic scholarship' to the knowledge of followers of unsanctioned death gods (like Ereth Khial among the Druchii).
But the AP hell is real; figuring out how to use influence to get this stuff recorded and collated by others in an organised way over time is probably more likely (with maybe the exception of the 'dynamic scholarship').
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Most likely way we get a foundation is my killing some necromancer doing these kinds of experiments and stealing their notes.
Actually that has likely happened a few times in the history of the colleges. Guessing that they normally don't get put in the library.
Or maybe those Ulgu using ratmen?
Last edited:
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I doubt the Colleges ever got ahold of an Eshin Sorcerer's notes.
Or, if they did, that they recognized them as such.
Both because Algard seemed doubtful of the idea of the Lore of Stealth actually being a thing before Mathilde confirmed it, and because they only recently learned how to read Queekish.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The wizards that live long enough to reach Magister Patriarch/Matriarch levels are ones that have developed or always had a good "now how could this go horribly wrong?" sense. Having a good stick to poke at things instead of using your own fingers is standard College doctrine for a reason.
Man Qrech is going to be so surprised when he starts regenerating! Not that I disagree with your greater point at all, but having missed a few pages of discussion on what is sure to be awful prison ideas considering the response I got kind of a kick out of seeing that description. Our favorite skaven has been drastically changed in unpredictable ways in a chronically understaffed prison after all.
Honestly this is kind of getting tiring, this feels like we are arguing in parrallel viewing the same point in different ways.
1. I think this is conflating a couple different strings so I am just going to say this. The Shadow warriors are not political or meant to be. Being liked or trusted has nothing to do with it. They are respected, feared and driven. The ones who raids Naggaroth to free slaves, who make the Druchii fear to step on Ulthuan. The best way I think I can put it is that they are respected as the ones who make the enemy hurt the way the enemy made you hurt. Or perhaps you can view them similar (if not exact) to someone like Pretty Boy Floyd was he a bad person? undoubtedly he was a murderer and a thief. But to the thousands who's debt he set on fire? You think they care that he shot people? Thousands were out of house and home from the banks actions. It isn't nice to think about but everyone has that little voice that will say "good they should suffer just like they made me". People aren't exactly going around crowing support for them, but they have at the very least, silent acceptance and acclaim by some.
2. Ulthuan forces are noted to be active on the sea's constantly, there is the navy, they have two fortresses constantly besieged by Druchii, then another two that need manned.
3. The gates are there to prevent access, AKA: preventing raids. To do so they need to constantly be manned and repaired, rough guestimate of numbers would be about 1500. Also as far as Ulthuan having minimal threats... The Annuli mountains are full of monsters, and dark elf raiding parties. It is noted that soldiers who man the gates are respected for surviving in general. This seems to indicate a certain level of attrition.
4. The whole point of a guerrilla war is area denial, that is what the Shadow Warriors are in effect. Because the area is consistently contested niether side gets to build it up. No Asur fortresses, no Druchii black Arks, and as far as other Asur driving them out that isn't how it works. The only official military that answers to the PK (that is able to be deployed solely by him) is the Sea Guard and those seconded by the kingdoms for campaigns. Without a figure pushing them to contest the landings they have no reason to contest Nagarythe, the whole reasons the Gates were built was to keep the threat contained. In the princes eyes they have done their duty, no reason to slog in without someone making them.
Last edited: