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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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ReImagined said:
Directly, no, indirectly, yes, but I'd imagine that if there was actual danger it'd be more up to the Stirlandian Watch/Army to handle than Mathilde.
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You have to remeber that the rulling class of the Empire is a martial class and it's two main responsiblies are defensing their territory and being able to raise armies if their feudal lord demands it. Mathilde is failing both.

Sure, she has a lot more value to the empire the way things stand now, but purely in regards to her responabilities as a noble, she is failing

The Stirland guard could help if worse comes to worse, but thats not their job and that's not what their meant to do. The whole system depends on the local garrisons or millitas defeating threats to minor to move the guard into action and to buy time for enough of them to arrive if the threat is big enough

Pre-Industrial logistics simply make it impossible for one centralised fighting forces to defense huge amounts of land without working with Hand in Hand with the locals

That's why the elector counts and the nobility are allowed to exist, they gain political autonomy in exchange for providing, first of all, martial might

It's working so far, because again, Mathilde is not a normal noble and there are people close enough that will probably lend a hand to gain her favor, but lets say it as it is

Dame Mathilde Weber has neglected her responsiblies as a noble of the realm to her emperor, to her feudal lord, but most importantly her people

She isn't some shinning light upon the hill, as some are trying to make her Out to be, she's just a shitty ruler in a way that most people here dont think about, so she gets a pass for it

Also, @ReImagined thanks for finding the meantion of her taking the money, i was pretty sure inremebered it correctly, but that belief quickly evaporated when Deadman meantioned that she didnt do it.
 
Chlof said:
Just to clarify, your contention here is that the 'common' people, i.e. the vast majority of the global population and the people who will be living alongside the Waystones on a day to day basis, don't matter and shouldn't factor into this decision making process because they "enjoy evil and ignorance too much" to care about the effects the Waystones will have, correct?
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Yes, with exceptions for populations with more reasonable attitudes like Praag, Eight Peaks, and our fief. That's a big part of why a pro-commoner message is pointless and a pro-wealth or pro-cult message is desired.
 
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DeleteWolf said:
She isn't some shinning light upon the hill, as some are trying to make her Out to be, she's just a shitty ruler in a way that most people here dont think about, so she gets a pass for it
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You are so completely wrong it is not even funny. Mathilde is landed knight not a baron. Only soldier she is supposed to raise is herself on a horse. She uses magic for the horse part but otherwise she is just fine.

Hell this fief was specifically was given to her so she never had to do it anything about it. That was the point of giving her something so poor. There are no expectation for her to do anything about it. Mathilde outright thanks Abelheim and Wilhelmina for that in an update.

And fief is perfectly fine with its own milita full of people with their slings and stones so she gets pass because doing more than expected of her.
 
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Tasoli said:
This reminds me of something;


Sheep Fief Liberation Front Leader: Aside from sending sheep and having dwarves look for ore what did Mathilde do for the fief huh?
Member 2: Built a road?
Sheep Fief Liberation Front Leader: Okay that is true but aside from sending sheep and having dwarves look for ore and build a road what did Mathilde do for the fief?
Member 3: Build a Shrine to Ranald?
Sheep Fief Liberation Front Leader: Okay that is true but aside from sending sheep, having dwarves look for ore, build a road and build a shrine to Ranald what did Mathilde do for the fief?
Member 2: Brought Blacksmithing tools and the Blacksmith?
Sheep Fief Liberation Front Leader: Okay that is true but aside from sending sheep, having dwarves look for ore, build a road, build a shrine to Ranald and Blacksmith what did Mathilde do for the fief?
Member 3: nothing?
Sheep Fief Liberation Front Leader: Nothing that is right!
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Wait, when did we build them a road? Or get them a blacksmith? How much fiefing have I forgotten?
 
DeleteWolf said:
Dame Mathilde Weber has neglected her responsiblies as a noble of the realm to her emperor, to her feudal lord, but most importantly her people
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As a knight with one hamlet, being able to provide a mounted master swordsman with multiple magic items is pretty good.

That knight sometimes hares off and clears out entire castles full of necromancers that are threatening her Elector Count, and such.

Some vassals pay their tithe with money rather than men. Mathilde prefers vampire skulls. I think she's still in the black on those.
 
Talon TigerDino said:
Wait, when did we build them a road? Or get them a blacksmith? How much fiefing have I forgotten?
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Literally before we build our Shadowkeep. Than we gave them the Blacksmithing tools we found in the Sunken Palace which apperaently comes with a journeyman attached smh. Journeyman kinda just showed up at any rate.

I think there is also smokehouse and stuff like that as well.
 
AsuraAtlas said:
Every time I'm reminded of Rolf I remember that the guy named his kid after us. And it's like, we did literally nothing to deserve it, don't know him like that, and he's probably just trying to curry favor with the boss, or really bad at names.

But it is kind of sweet.
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I don't recall anything saying he did that?
 
DeleteWolf said:
Sure, she did send some sheep over there and once asked some dwarfs to Look for ore, but that's it. Her only other accomplishment is not taking away all of the money they made on their own.
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This isn't true, it's misframing the initial investment we made in the fief- which was substantial.

These investments- which arguably kick-started the virtuous circle of prosperity so there are any taxes to take- represented Mathilde investing hundreds of gold from her labors, I.e. writing and publishing Asarnil's memoirs. As well as the prospectors and crop tests, we built a well and granary, lessening the effects of drought. We brought in the blacksmith, improved the road, built the defenses- from the early descriptions I'd say we created a community focal point where none existed before, and this was all in the early years. For example-
Boney said:
-[*] Free action: Bring in prospectors to search for minable metals (100+50 gc).
-[*] Free action: Investigate the farming possibilities of the land (50+25 gc for test crops).
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Boney said:
-[*][Free] Use your newly-acquired blacksmithing gear to lure in a skilled but poor blacksmith to begin servicing the area. (no action required) (NEW)
-[*][Free] Build a well (50 gc).
--[*] No action needed +25 gc
-[*][Free] Build a communal granary to store food for lean times (50 gc).
--[*] No action needed +25 gc
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Subsequent re-investments of parts of those taxes have added a communal cheesery, looms and more to the growing community center:
Boney said:
Estate Upgrades:
'The Shadowkeep' is what the locals have taken to calling the collection of buildings encompassed by a wooden bailey that has become the center of their community, but as it's said with pride instead of fear, you leave it be. The keep itself is fairly modest, built atop a fairly small artificial hill, made of wood, and only a couple of stories tall, but the ability to fire sling-stones at any interlopers from safety would deter any threats the area is likely to face. The ground floor of the keep is your home should you choose to claim it, and until then is home to the 'Steward', which is a fancy title for a local lad who travelled all the way to Tarshof to learn numberin'. Apart from the local tradesfolk, the bailey also contains a number of newly-built huts and cottages.

Modest Manor
Wooden Motte and Bailey
Cobble road to Sonningwiese

Blacksmith, Dairy, Loom
Granary, Smokehouse, Well
Shrine to Ranald
Flint Mine

Sheep Breeding Project
Stirlandian Highlander (hardy)
Estalian Mayor (intelligent, fine wool)
East Westerlander (high milk yield)
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Andres said:
My point is that motives and intentions very much do matter here because that's what the whole waystone placement question is about. If we put it in New Town or River Gate, we'll be telling the people who matter "the primary purpose of these things is to increase your land and wealth". If we put it in Old Town, we'll be telling the people who matter "the primary purpose of these things is to make life for your oppressed subjects easier". Nobles don't give a crap about their subjects beyond extracting wealth from them, so the former argument far more directly appeals to them than the latter, even if healthier and happier subjects do make more money.

(There's also the fact that some nobles prefer a less productive but weaker and more compliant populace, but that's a separate matter.)

Both placements materially help commoners and nobles, but the message of New Town is more overtly pro-noble.
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Oh, sure. I mean, I'm not going to object, I'm voting for the Karlsbridge. I was just commenting on how, in general (not for purposes of Praag specifically) it's not extremely uncommon to find nobles like Mathilde, cause IMO people were falling into the general trap of inflating Mathilde's achievements and general actions a bit more than is merited.
 
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Andres said:
Yes, with exceptions for populations with more reasonable attitudes like Praag, Eight Peaks, and our fief. That's a big part of why a pro-commoner message is pointless and a pro-noble message is desired.
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And you're basing this on the alleged joy that the common people (Again, the vast majority of everyone everywhere) find in burning children, right?
 
I still say our fief should have a proper big tower, out of sheer principle.
We are a wizard and all our domains should have a tower.
Our mountaintop penthouse has towers, our elven laboratory is a tower.
Just our fief has no tower to speak of!
What will the other wizards say when they learn we haven't yet put a tower there!
 
Andres said:
That specifically is an Empire-specific pastime, but every nation's lower class has some form of way to express how much they value cruelty.
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Yeah, I don't know what kind of weird misanthropy you're trying to indulge in with this but that's a pretty on-it's-face absurd argument. If you're going to say that the people of Praag won't form a positive opinion the waystones because they are simply too stupid and cruel to do so then you are going to have to present harder evidence for that than simply gesturing vaguely to the worst excesses of the most ignorant, afraid and isolated sections of the population.
 
DeleteWolf said:
You have to remeber that the rulling class of the Empire is a martial class and it's two main responsiblies are defensing their territory and being able to raise armies if their feudal lord demands it. Mathilde is failing both.

Sure, she has a lot more value to the empire the way things stand now, but purely in regards to her responabilities as a noble, she is failing

The Stirland guard could help if worse comes to worse, but thats not their job and that's not what their meant to do. The whole system depends on the local garrisons or millitas defeating threats to minor to move the guard into action and to buy time for enough of them to arrive if the threat is big enough

Pre-Industrial logistics simply make it impossible for one centralised fighting forces to defense huge amounts of land without working with Hand in Hand with the locals

That's why the elector counts and the nobility are allowed to exist, they gain political autonomy in exchange for providing, first of all, martial might

It's working so far, because again, Mathilde is not a normal noble and there are people close enough that will probably lend a hand to gain her favor, but lets say it as it is

Dame Mathilde Weber has neglected her responsiblies as a noble of the realm to her emperor, to her feudal lord, but most importantly her people

She isn't some shinning light upon the hill, as some are trying to make her Out to be, she's just a shitty ruler in a way that most people here dont think about, so she gets a pass for it

Also, @ReImagined thanks for finding the meantion of her taking the money, i was pretty sure inremebered it correctly, but that belief quickly evaporated when Deadman meantioned that she didnt do it.
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We also built a wooden fort on the land so I think that we have done our due diligence in protecting the place. That fort cost more than we have ever taken from the place in tax money.
 
Tasoli said:
You are so completely wrong it is not even funny. Mathilde is landed knight not a baron. Only soldier she is supposed to raise is herself on a horse. She uses magic for the horse part but otherwise she is just fine.
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Not quite? Mathilde being a landed knight might not be required to raise armies, but a small retinue might be required of her. A knight, a squire, and at least one armed auxiliary is, to my knowledge, the least that might be required of a landed knight. Of course, Abelhelm may have not included such requirements in Mathilde's feudal contract on the grounds that her magic would more than suffice.
 
NuclearConsensus said:
Not quite? Mathilde being a landed knight might not be required to raise armies, but a small retinue might be required of her. A knight, a squire, and at least one armed auxiliary is, to my knowledge, the least that might be required of a landed knight. Of course, Abelhelm may have not included such requirements in Mathilde's feudal contract on the grounds that her magic would more than suffice.
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Yeah those were not included. From what I remember as I don't have time to go back and look where it is but Mathilde remarks that she has armor and horse covered with magic so she doesn't have any upkeep to handle feudal contract. There was no mention of anybody or anything else.

Plus most Empire nobility just pay extra tax insted of keeping such soldiers anyway. That is why Empire has semi-professinal army rather than levies and Knights like Brettonia.
 
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NuclearConsensus said:
Not quite? Mathilde being a landed knight might not be required to raise armies, but a small retinue might be required of her. A knight, a squire, and at least one armed auxiliary is, to my knowledge, the least that might be required of a landed knight. Of course, Abelhelm may have not included such requirements in Mathilde's feudal contract on the grounds that her magic would more than suffice.
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My guess is that in any serious conflict she'd expected to attend she'd be called as a Lady Magister rather than a Dame at which point the whole thing neatly resolves itself because what are you going to do, argue with one of the top secret police of the entire empire to try to get her to show up in a suit of armor instead of as a wizard? Literally everyone involved and most people that hear about it will laugh at you, and you'll end up with a worse outcome even if you succeed. In addition to that, the person who would be doing the calling is Roswita who both knows better, and would just ask us to help with the problem directly.
 
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