- Location
- Europe
On one hand, it feels kinda too easy if the elves can just turn warpstone into dhar with no bad consequences, on the other hand, the number of creatures who just eat the stuff would make it downright silly to make it complicated.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Its worth noting that the Gray Lords were in Laurelorn to begin with because they were doing research frowned upon by mainstream Asur wizards. The Eonir are probably more chill about sketchy magic than the Asur in general.
And doing any sort of dark magic at the scale required to make an impact in the world supply of warpstone is likely to have some nasty side effects
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Trolls have absurd digestive systems, right? And the Old Ones were mucking about with their genetics like everyone else, yeah? I think a troll's digestive system might be designed to safely break down and destroy warpstone. (Unlike how Skaven tolerate some amount of warpstone in their bodies, or how the We develop growths that cover warpstone pieces.) I don't know who to ask about studying trolls to see if it's true, but it'd be interesting if it is.
- Location
- Utrecht
... farming trolls for the ir stomach acid... Which is then used to dissolve warpstone?
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
First off I would like to apologize for the delay in my response, depression, at least my type of depression, comes in waves of hopelessness, while TMS has mitigated it it has not cured it, I have scheduled additional TMS session in the future but those are by definition in the future. I have not posted a response earlier because I feared the low points of my depression might make me irrational. Even at it's ebb depression might make me irrational but that's a risk I must take, no human being is perfectly rational so I must be as least irrational as I can possibly be. So I would like to respond to the responses to my post individually.
2. The Colleges's mental defenses are clearly not enough if Ulgu Dragons do exist. If they don't exist then then the existing protocols are adequate, however if they do exist then then they are clearly inadequate.
3. Mathilde's belt only protects against Dhar and its insanity inducing mental influence. That does not mean that there is no means of blocking all kinds of external mental influence, merely that such protection could not be fit into the three runes that are the maximum of runesmithing. It is hypothetically possible that Runesmiths could create a room shielded from external mental influence. Ultimately we have no idea if Runesmiths can protect against external mental influences unless we directly ask them to create such a room for us and respond with a yes or no.
4. I apologize if this comes across as hamfisted, qntm's "There Is No Antimemetics Division" is a major inspiration for me and should be a major inspiration for any worried about the possibility of any antimemetic threats including Ulgu Dragons. Boney has admitted to reading the "There Is No Antimemetics Division" storyline and might borrow elements from it to use in the Divided Loyalties storyline, we must be ready for the worst along with preparing for all possible countermeasures if the worst does come to pass.
5. I'll admit, I probably should have used shorter sentences and more line breaks when writing my post. I was rather tired when I was writing my post.
Once again, I would like to apologize for the lateness of my response. The past week has been hell for me, both physically and mentally, to put it lightly. I was not able to take the time to compose a proper response. I hope you will understand.
We don't know if they're an actual problem, an isolated room which could shield its occupants from their influence would determine if they're a threat. Maybe they don't exist, maybe they're harmless, maybe they're up to something that must be stopped at all costs. The only way to know is to set up a room whose occupants are shielded from any hypothetical foreign mental influence and have all information from the outside world and can properly judge whether or not to exterminate any hypothetical Ulgu Dragons if they are a threat.
1. I would would define foreign mental influence as something that causes the subject to think thoughts that they would not do under normal circumstances.
2. The Colleges's mental defenses are clearly not enough if Ulgu Dragons do exist. If they don't exist then then the existing protocols are adequate, however if they do exist then then they are clearly inadequate.
3. Mathilde's belt only protects against Dhar and its insanity inducing mental influence. That does not mean that there is no means of blocking all kinds of external mental influence, merely that such protection could not be fit into the three runes that are the maximum of runesmithing. It is hypothetically possible that Runesmiths could create a room shielded from external mental influence. Ultimately we have no idea if Runesmiths can protect against external mental influences unless we directly ask them to create such a room for us and respond with a yes or no.
4. I apologize if this comes across as hamfisted, qntm's "There Is No Antimemetics Division" is a major inspiration for me and should be a major inspiration for any worried about the possibility of any antimemetic threats including Ulgu Dragons. Boney has admitted to reading the "There Is No Antimemetics Division" storyline and might borrow elements from it to use in the Divided Loyalties storyline, we must be ready for the worst along with preparing for all possible countermeasures if the worst does come to pass.
5. I'll admit, I probably should have used shorter sentences and more line breaks when writing my post. I was rather tired when I was writing my post.
That was not my intention and I am sorry if it came off like that. I was merely trying to come up with an idea for an Ulgu Dragon room and various scenarios and responded based on what we might discover.
So in theory yes, in practice no. Unfortunate but hopefully someday someone with the right skills and talents will be able to develop the technology.
Once again, I would like to apologize for the lateness of my response. The past week has been hell for me, both physically and mentally, to put it lightly. I was not able to take the time to compose a proper response. I hope you will understand.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
You know, the dwarves probably *did* just leave it out for them to cart away. Any dwarfhold that forged gromril during the golden age would have had a bunch lying around, and if best disposal practice was to carry it down some old mine and leave it there, then you're basically handing the skaven fully stocked warpstone mines.
My bet is that the mines' access were behind the gates of the karaks, fair? So then when the big shake hits and the skaven can get into dwarfholds for the first time, they discover massive amounts of pure warpstone all nicely crated up in the least traveled parts of the holds.
The would have been right about the time they were first developing their tech too- easy access to warpstone and not much else would encourage them to try and use it in everything, and the way it can do almost everything would have let them develop a lot of power very quickly.
Then all you'd need is for the first karak to fall from rats in the inside, and the skaven would suddenly have a secure base, a technology tree that made them very powerful, and a knowledge of where more of their most precious resources were located: inside old dwarf mines. So a motive to wage immediate aggressive war on the rest.
Chlof
Her Ladyship
- Pronouns
- She/Her
ThwockaThwockaThwockaThwocka
View: https://imgur.com/a/KFBxliV
I did Gotri in teal colours for Zhufbar but then read that they're meant to be dark blue with white highlights? I guess Zhufbar's teal now, I ain't redoing all those sub-assemblies.
In theory yes, as soon as someone figures out a safe, non corruptive way to dissolve warpstone
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Sure. That says nothing about its effect on powerstones or on Warpstone though. We simply don't know enough about the way the Vortex actually operates to be sure about how it'll affect them. For example, a regular spell or ritual won't consume a powerstone or warpstone unless the wizard is actively drawing on them. For all we know, it's the same for the Vortex, and you can't exactly hand warpstone to the casters of that.
The Asur probably have a great deal less experience with Warpstone than anyone else. And I really doubt they'll happily experiment on the world-saving spell with it.
I mean, the Eonir might be more willing, but then the entire Waystone Network makes Dhar, so the Asur can't be completely agaisnt the idea.
Theoretically yes. That was what Angelform meant when bringing up the idea an Asur wizard could just set up some kind of enchantment fed by Warpstone. problem s that Dhar tends towards destructive magics, and draws in nasty things IIRC, so I'm not sure there's any non-harmful way to do so.
To clarify, I didnt mean the Eonir would be willing, I meant that Sarvoi's flippant attitude towards low level Dhar use should not be considered representative of Asur views
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
I mean sure. But again, they use it to power the Network, so they can't treat it as a complete no-no.
The Waystone Network was designed and built pre-Sundering, when attitudes to Dhar may have been more relaxed amongst the elves. Afterwards, attitudes to novel experiments with Dhar may have hardened.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We do have an idea of how the Eonir see Dhar, actually:
Sarvoi seems like an outlier in terms of attitudes. I don't imagine that if the Eonir (whose magical backbone is 12-13 magical powerhouses who got exiled for doing Unpleasant Things) shy away from Dhar, that the Asur would have seen it as much better. Dhar doesn't really have many uses that are good for society. It gives you extra magical firepower, and sure, the Druchii embraced it wholeheartedly, but this says more about their megalomaniacal lust for power and how uncaring they are about the world they live in than anything else.
Dhar destroys, and Dhar corrupts, and those aren't things that are particularly useful for a peaceful society that can already muster up destruction in the forms of Shyish and Aqshy.
...That said, I do hope that the Eonir have 1-2 library points' worth of books on Dhar. We need them, for completionism's sake.
Sarvoi seems like an outlier in terms of attitudes. I don't imagine that if the Eonir (whose magical backbone is 12-13 magical powerhouses who got exiled for doing Unpleasant Things) shy away from Dhar, that the Asur would have seen it as much better. Dhar doesn't really have many uses that are good for society. It gives you extra magical firepower, and sure, the Druchii embraced it wholeheartedly, but this says more about their megalomaniacal lust for power and how uncaring they are about the world they live in than anything else.
Dhar destroys, and Dhar corrupts, and those aren't things that are particularly useful for a peaceful society that can already muster up destruction in the forms of Shyish and Aqshy.
...That said, I do hope that the Eonir have 1-2 library points' worth of books on Dhar. We need them, for completionism's sake.
I was about to say that they do but we're not getting those from the Ithilmar deal, since that doesn't include magical subjects, but actually the deal does include magical topics, it's just been awhile and I forgot. You might be thinking "wait so why did you even post this" which is a fair question, and the answer is that writing a library post caused me to take a look at our library, and while looking at our library I happened to notice a recent edit:
Neat! But also terrible; I beg this thread to not immediately embark on a 14AP project to translate this thing at the expense of our existing projects.
Blackout
Fed By Comments
- Location
- Who knows?
Regarding how the Asur see Dhar, there is a short story in the Sundering Omnibus about Thyriol, the ruling prince of Saphery during the Sundering, clashing with his grandson who wants to use Dhar to fight the Druchii:
Whilst it is only a novel, it is as far as I know the only source in the lore that talks about Asur attitudes regarding using Dhar.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
!
That is indeed a thing to note.
I have a mighty need... But yeah, figuring out the Old Ones' language might be a project in itself, likely requiring High Nehekharan on top of Anoqeyan. That might speed up learning the former, but the latter's not gonna get done anytime soon.
- Location
- Leeds
Oh wow, so we're really getting the good book from them.
And not the good book in the religious way.
I'll admit, I was sceptical that we'd get our books worth without a lot of duplicates but that might well do it.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Too late. The great linguistic reconstruction project hungers.
...
would you prefer to sit on it, but moan about sitting on it, for most of the quest like AV?
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Depending on how Boney is taking it, they might be able to help with that cache. Morelian, who might have been Teclis' now dead predeccessor as High Loremaster chose Old One language stuff as his area of expertise and was able to translate some of it for Teclis in the T&T trilogy, and presumably his research is still around, even though he's not. Although generally Boney goes with other versions, either Cyeos or Belannaer as Teclis' predecessor. Although we know so little about Cyeos, Boney could conflate the two with little issue if he chose.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I bet we could manipulate them into helping by "accidentally" revealing that we've already got a bunch of stuff from before the tower of Hoeth and aren't really interested in their standard secret lore because we 'already have that', but we could really use some guidance on translation...