Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
DragonParadox said:
I do not think the meet can force the Ar Ulric to set internal policy. Which is a good thing because the Sigmatites have three votes on that and would probably propose all sorts of sabotage otherwise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
IT was not Ar-Ulric who set that policy. It was imposed by Middenland EC when AR-Ulric supported somebody else in the 3 Emperor fight.

Sigmarites might want to actually repeal that just ensure there is no precent where EC can impose stuff like that on religions. The threat that Reikland EC can just order them to be celibate alone should be enough to ensure they don't vote against it.
 
Tasoli said:
IT was not Ar-Ulric who set that policy. It was imposed by Middenland EC when AR-Ulric supported somebody else in the 3 Emperor fight.

Sigmarites might want to actually repeal that just ensure there is no precent where EC can impose stuff like that on religions. The threat that Reikland EC can just order them to be celibate alone should be enough to ensure they don't vote against it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I do not think it matters who forced him to centuries ago, it is now part of religious doctrine, which means the Ar Ulric would lose face if he allowed it to be overturned, just as his predecessor did when he allowed it to stand.
 
The Cult of Ulric are explicitly stated to hate the rule and see it as a politically-imposed farce.

The bigger problem is that repealing the celibacy vows would probably result in the Cult of Ulric going back to creating dynasties, with priests marrying each other and then handing their posts to their children.
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
I do not think it matters who forced him to centuries ago, it is now part of religious doctrine, which means the Ar Ulric would lose face if he allowed it to be overturned, just as his predecessor did when he allowed it to stand.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If he takes the lead in repealing it he would loose no face. It would be triump of his authority over secular powers really.
 
DragonParadox said:
The Grand Baron has no protection from someone like Mathilde getting behind unraveling his schemes and pushing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And what, killing an electoral count over whatever third hand shenanigans went on? The rest of the electoral counts would demand the colleges dismantled if that was the potential precedent on the table.

Past that, I really don't think there's much we can actually do to him.

DragonParadox said:
The EC are not permitted to enact their own foreign policy, that is treason and would get the Grand Baron of Norland killed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Curious if you think this means Mathilde would have a death sentence on her head if the actual depth of her involvement with Boris was known. Because we not only independently made a treaty with several other powers basically on our own, we liked a foreign head of state.

Pretty sure we are not the only ones who play fast and loose and depend on no one calling us on it.
 
Glau said:
And what, killing an electoral count over whatever third hand shenanigans went on? The rest of the electoral counts would demand the colleges dismantled if that was the potential precedent on the table.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

OK, how are they going to tell it was us? Same way the Emperor figured out who killed his first wife?

Glau said:
Curious if you think this means Mathilde would have a death sentence on her head if the actual depth of her involvement with Boris was known. Because we not only independently made a treaty with several other powers basically on our own, we liked a foreign head of state.

Pretty sure we are not the only ones who play fast and loose and depend on no one calling us on it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Oh certainly, but then that's only the second death sentence hanging there, I'm sure other Grey LMs have an even larger collection.
 
DragonParadox said:
Oh certainly, but then that's only the second death sentence hanging there, I'm sure other Grey LMs have an even larger collection.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I really don't think there's a restriction on foreign diplomacy like your saying.

Dragomas negotiated a non-aggression pact with Cathay and was promoted. Ostermark negotiated with Karak Kadrin to install canals and when Talabecland was fucking around with them, were in the position of siding with Kadrin against Talabecland.

Mathilde has engaged with diplomacy with half the continent on her own volition for the Waystone project.
 
Mopman43 said:
I really don't think there's a restriction on foreign diplomacy like your saying.

Dragomas negotiated a non-aggression pact with Cathay and was promoted. Ostermark negotiated with Karak Kadrin to install canals and when Talabecland was fucking around with them, were in the position of siding with Kadrin against Talabecland.

Mathilde has engaged with diplomacy with half the continent on her own volition for the Waystone project.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Dragonas was not an elector count and Ostermark did not call in Kadrin to attack the allies of another Elector. If Elector Counts could forge alliances freely to use against other Elector counts and their allies the Empire would not exist, only warring electors. Vassals being denied their own foreign policy where it would interfere with internal stability is a basic requirement for a state to be called such.
 
Omegahugger said:
The Empire as an instution is the reason her village failed to kill Mathilde.

The Colleges are the ones who pulled her out of the fire, but it is the Articles of the Empire that let them do that.

Hence why I have such a hard time convincing the thread to break them
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It is not.

The Colleges took her in, but a lone watchman pulled her out of the fire. The Empire is content to let many Mathildes burn, even has tenants of one of its major (useless) gods dedicated to doing so. Moreover, the Articles themselves both bind and protect; service in return for not being burned alive. Protection that would be forfeit to Mathilde if was known that she was so potentially dangerous.
 
Bucolic said:
It is not.

The Colleges took her in, but a lone watchman pulled her out of the fire. The Empire is content to let many Mathildes burn, even has tenants of one of its major (useless) gods dedicated to doing so. Moreover, the Articles themselves both bind and protect; service in return for not being burned alive. Protection that would be forfeit to Mathilde if was known that she was so potentially dangerous.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And the lone watchman pulled her out of the fire because...?

He did that because of the articles. Because it was the law to send magic users to the Colleges instead of burning them.
 
Mopman43 said:
I really don't think there's a restriction on foreign diplomacy like your saying.

Dragomas negotiated a non-aggression pact with Cathay and was promoted. Ostermark negotiated with Karak Kadrin to install canals and when Talabecland was fucking around with them, were in the position of siding with Kadrin against Talabecland.

Mathilde has engaged with diplomacy with half the continent on her own volition for the Waystone project.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Wizard Lords are explicitly granted authority to negotiate on behalf of the Empire. That's why Dragomas was retroactively promoted to Lord Magister, because otherwise he wouldn't have had the authority to sign anything with Cathay. And the canals are economical in nature, they're not exactly 'foreign policy'.


But anyways, I doubt the Druchii would benefit from attacking Laurelorn. Sailing a Black Ark up the Schaukel... well, it's probably impossible (far too big, and the river is far too shallow), but even if it wasn't they'd be directly facing Tor Lithanel's mighty defenses, including the Grey Lords that destroyed a Golden Age Dwarf Throng. It'd be far too much risk and effort for too little benefit. And if Laurelorn survived, which isn't unlikely, they would fully side with Ulthuan, again for negligible benefit to the Druchii, and I guarantee you Malekith wouldn't be happy.
 
DragonParadox said:
Dragonas was not an elector count and Ostermark did not call in Kadrin to attack the allies of another Elector. If Elector Counts could forge alliances freely to use against other Elector counts and their allies the Empire would not exist, only warring electors. Vassals being denied their own foreign policy where it would interfere with internal stability is a basic requirement for a state to be called such.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Middenland unilaterally allied with the Eonir against Nordland.
 
If we care so much about promoting the welfare of magical users in the Empire, we can burn our great deed on it, quite possibly trading it for CF if not a deed with the colleges and pissing off the templars and other cults to a lesser extant.
 
Blackout said:
The Cult of Ulric are explicitly stated to hate the rule and see it as a politically-imposed farce.

The bigger problem is that repealing the celibacy vows would probably result in the Cult of Ulric going back to creating dynasties, with priests marrying each other and then handing their posts to their children.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Why's it only Ulrican priests that get to dynasty-building? The other cults don't have mandatory celibacy.
 
DragonParadox said:
I think the reason the Winter Wolves were used is that they were meant to be deniable.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They are very definition of not deniable as they are offical knights of White Wolves whom is Ar-Ulricks sworn order. Each and every one of them.

IT was the opposite. Meant to prove that Ar-Ulrick accepted Eonir as Ulricans and going against it is heresy. It is why Nordland likely is going for religious scism right now over going after Middenland EC.
 
Last edited:
GrimTheMad said:
And the lone watchman pulled her out of the fire because...?

He did that because of the articles. Because it was the law to send magic users to the Colleges instead of burning them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The articles also bound everyone who tied a small girl to a pyre. So to answer your question, it was pity, not a paper, that was the cause. That the articles granted him an excuse is the laudable, that an excuse was necessary was not.
 
Bucolic said:
The articles also bound everyone who tied a small girl to a pyre. So to answer your question, it was pity, not a paper, that was the cause. That the articles granted him an excuse is the laudable, that an excuse was necessary was not.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Without that « excuse », there would have been no one to send Mathilde to. Without the Articles, the village chief would have asked for the head of the watchman to the local authorities and gotten it, as well as Mathilde´s.
 
Mopman43 said:
Possibly it's mainly a factor of how closely tied the Cult of Ulric is to Middenland and Middenheim?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Possibly the Cult of Ulric simply had a history of trying to reunite sacred and temporal power, as it apparently was in the time before the Cults, and the other Cults were more content to stay in the lane, for historically contingent reasons.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top