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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Derpmind said:
If we ever had the spare time off from writing research papers to write an anti-Dhar book, (edit: or engineer the destruction of the Old World, apparently,) I'd much rather Mathilde use that time to write a romance novel instead. Take a look at this:

Currently, Mathilde's personal collection is at +11, but it's got a lot of gaps. But filling out the Imperial, Dwarven, and Eonir sections is very doable for her, which would raise that to an astonishing +21, higher than the highest Library topics. Add in Max's assistance, Mathilde's +27 Intrigue, and the Coin's +20 bonus, and there's a good chance Mathilde could knock it out of the park as a writer of dirty, smutty romance fiction. And is that not a worthy goal to aspire to?
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Sa'kage said:
"Sir! Lady Mathilde has published another book sir!"

"Oh by Verana how delightfull. Her tendency to walk from topic to topic can be quite bothersome, but her insightfull and curious insights into all manner of magical effects is always a informative read, please tell me pauper what this newest one is about"

"It's about a Bretonian lady and a Knight of the Empire getting kidnapped by foul orks, and they have to break out while finding their true love for each other sir"

"...What?"
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Okay, but consider: What if the romance books were also meant to launder lessons from Mathilde's own extensive skillset?

A somewhat torrid fairy tale of a spider-daughter of a cat falling in love with an owl, (be it aesthetics for human characters or literal) that's actually a guide to both library science and balancing one's faith between two very different gods.

A knight of the Empire caught in a love triangle and being romanced by a dwarf, an elf, and a Kislevan noble, that serves as both a primer on diplomacy and keeping relationships with different those of cultures, and a lesson on linguistics.

A woman falls in love with a strange man from distant parts, while the other half of the plot balances how her brother undergoes a quiet tragedy as he falls from a man of noble character to a far worse one, that serves as a teaching aid for those recognizing the afflictions or Dhar (Okay, probably not. I do think the fall of Vanhel and the diagnosis of the afflictions poisoning him are probably the most widely-useful lessons the Liber Mortis has, but the Extremely Redacted Liber Mortis already exists and seems likely to contain those already.)

Or, considering Mathilde's stewardship and business focus, one might even write a tale of a an old wizard who's been the guardian figure for a town of shepherds for generations running off with a travelling merchant where but half the adventures are secretly about lessons of economics... oh, wait.
 
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rocketroland999 said:
That's basically what I'm advising. A pamphlet that tells you what pages to read in case of upcoming undead horde that you won't be able to deal with
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The Cult of Sigmar has a copy, have used it, and probably marked the page down?
The pamphlet would be useless without the actual book, and with the book you don't need a pamphlet because you can just slap a bookmark down.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I'm tired of the Dhar conversation, so let's talk turn plans instead because that won't cause an argument or anything.

Based on thread vibes, I get the feeling there's going to be four or five differing plans:
  • Elfcation with Protector
  • Elfcation with Father
  • Old World adventures with Protector
  • Old World adventures with Father
  • WEB-MAT research
Elfcation is fairly simple—we plant a waystone, drop off the Orbs, and then flee to Ulthuan before Algard can nail our feet to the floorboards. Protector Vs Father is mostly about what impression we want to make on the elves.

Old World Adventures is also simple—we plant a waystone, and then we hit 3 or 4 hotspots, eliminate any monsters hiding there, and then use the payment and the fame to advance the waystone project. Protector would probably be mostly within the Empire, whilst Father would be used in Bretonnia to test the Lady theory. Possible hotspots include nexuses, Sylvania, troll country, Reikland, the iron orcs, and that tomb king barrow we just flind out about.

WEB-MAT research is about picking up new research chains—apparitions, windherding, Nehekara etc. More of a sedated turn compared to the adventure focused turns, but begins setting up some cool pay offs later down the line.

I'd be happy with any of these, to be honest. They all sound interesting. What are people's thoughts? Have I missed any thing obvious?
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Personally, I'm not inclined to do the Elfcation, (I won't complain if it wins, but it doesn't call to me as it does to others and there's so much else I want to do) but do I feel like mixing Old World adventures with Web-Mat research might be wise.

I'm probably on the much higher end of the spectrum when it comes to enthusiasm for pure research, but it feels like a lot of people feel a lack of thrill with it. Given how long the turns are getting, mixing a nexus investigation in each turn, or any other adventure plothook action, might help people with that.

Because just off the top of my head things like poking around Mordheim or investigating the Forest of Shadows Nexuses do seem like things that could end up as adventure miniarcs.
 
Boney said:
Non-Stirlandian ale doesn't taste right hot.
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Lords of the Lance, page 337:
Karolina took a breath, lifting her eyes to the rippling fabric of the wyrm banner. She'd fought and triumphed beneath this banner and had even carried it in battle. And when she lowered her eyes to the approaching knights, she felt the fear in her blood lift away like steam from a warm mug.
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Looks like they serve it hot down in the Border Princes too. Not that far from Karak Eight Peaks, and we even have a friend there we visit from time to time.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
I think a properly written Liber Morthilde, with a focus on being more helpful for countering Dhar than casting it, would be a fine thing. The reputational hit would be fairly negligible if released post mortem, down to "well, at least she clearly didn't do anything with it."

I also think that it's not really worth the time to write a book that won't see use for, hopefully, decades. We have other worthy uses of our time.
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It has been said, like, half a dozen times, by QM themselves, that it is nigh impossible. If you teach the sort of insight that Liber Mortis offered Mathilde towards countering Dhar, you are also teaching the insight that it offered her towards casting with it. Simply by deduction from principles.
 
pucflek said:
It has been said, like, half a dozen times, by QM themselves, that it is nigh impossible. If you teach the sort of insight that Liber Mortis offered Mathilde towards countering Dhar, you are also teaching the insight that it offered her towards casting with it. Simply by deduction from principles.
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Boney also said that it may be possible to write a book more useful for countering Dhar than for utilizing it, but super difficult. (I note that it's just "more" useful, not "only").

Also, regarding the point you were replying to, the reputation hit would impact everybody we knew and could have possibly taught this to, and every achievement that might have been secretly tainted. The splash would be bigger than just Mathilde.
 
fictionfan said:
I personally figured that we publish our findings on the Knight Bringer then see if some other wizard does the Whispering Darkness for us.
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That is not in any sense guaranteed to happen. Spell creation is generally considered dangerous and time-consuming, and even if the Greys do come out with another Apparition-based spell (instead of 'just' sticking with Knightbringer), we'd have zero control over how someone else would make it.

It's entirely possible they'd choose a different Apparition than the Whispering Darkness to bind; and if they did pick the Whispering Darkness, there's no guarantee they'd bind as many as we'd prefer, or that their form of attack/behavior would be what we wish it was.

I'd rather we take a shot at it ourselves, put enough Darknesses in there that it'd be mid-to-high-level Battle Magic, and try to make it directly-damaging - siccing them onto a target or group of targets similar to how the Hounds do their thing.
 
Ehh, doubt its him. Eltharion was already there and he was sent pretty explicitly because teclis couldn't really make it without blowing up his responsibilities.
 
I had a thought...
For the elfcation we are going to lothern and present our mcgubbin to the seaguard... What path are we gonna take from there? Around the outside of the arcane donut? Inside? Through the inner sea?
We kinda need to make it to the opposite site of the donut from where we start.
 
pucflek said:
It has been said, like, half a dozen times, by QM themselves, that it is nigh impossible. If you teach the sort of insight that Liber Mortis offered Mathilde towards countering Dhar, you are also teaching the insight that it offered her towards casting with it. Simply by deduction from principles.
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I didn't say anything about passing on the Second Secret, which would be impossible. Boney's said we could plausibly - with some difficulty - write a guide on countering Dhar in general that's more useful for countering it than using it.

I don't think it's the best use of our time, but this is something we could do.
 
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Andres said:
Lords of the Lance, page 337:

Looks like they serve it hot down in the Border Princes too. Not that far from Karak Eight Peaks, and we even have a friend there we visit from time to time.
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Or she could be thinking of a mulled drink, or a herbal infusion or posset or caudle. Or any local hot drink. It's not like she says ale there.

Tobtorp said:
Ehh, doubt its him. Eltharion was already there and he was sent pretty explicitly because teclis couldn't really make it without blowing up his responsibilities.
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Teclis was too weak to stand, not busy. He'll presumably recover at some point and we don't know when.

Tobtorp said:
I had a thought...
For the elfcation we are going to lothern and present our mcgubbin to the seaguard... What path are we gonna take from there? Around the outside of the arcane donut? Inside? Through the inner sea?
We kinda need to make it to the opposite site of the donut from where we start.
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Presumably around the outer coast. Across the Inner Sea would both take longer, and be something the Asur are inclined against anyway because the Vortex sits there.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
I didn't say anything about passing on the Second Secret, which would be impossible. Boney's said we could plausibly - with some difficulty - write a guide on countering Dhar in general that's more useful for countering it than using it.

I don't think it's the best use of our time, but this is something we could do.
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You realise "more useful for counter it than using it." still means its useful for using it?
The contention has never been (or at least it shouldn't be) that we'll write a better necromancy textbook than a counterspelling necromancy textbook, the danger has always been that a half decent necromancy textbook can do more damage than a good counterspelling book.
 
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deathofrats0808 said:
Teclis was too weak to stand, not busy. He'll presumably recover at some point and we don't know when.
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He's super busy.
Boney said:
not letting it distract him from making his way through the many reports, missives, and attempts at correspondence that constantly bombard him and have been accumulating for far too long.
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Boney said:
Another month passes in a haze of duty and parchment
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He'll recover, sure, but his duties didn't allow him to even say hi to the Colleges (an unfinished project!) for centuries, and now that Eltharion has been sent to interface with the Waystone Project, he doesn't need to come over there personally.

Does he want to? Oh I bet he does. But...
Boney said:
he'll have to settle for sending someone else in his stead, as he also so often does.
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Parabola said:
I'm not sure a WEB-MAT plan is on the cards but that might just be me - certainly, I can think of a bunch of things to do with them.
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The Phoenixian said:
but do I feel like mixing Old World adventures with Web-Mat research might be wise.
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Did you have specific WEB-MAT actions in mind? The plan draft I'm currently cooking has WEB-MAT and the Forest of Shadows, which sounds like something that could be up your alley, but I haven't quite nailed down the third WEB-MAT action so I'll be happy for suggestions. I'm very specifically looking for WEB-MAT actions that are not good for Eike, because my plan has Eike doing a lot of (imo) great stuff and I don't want to dilute that. Extra credit for WEB-MAT actions that involve Max, who in my current draft is idle.
 
Retrueno said:
I want Elfication but I'd also like to get us started in learning High Nehekaran or maybe catching a Whispering Darkness
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Ooh Nehekarian adventure requirement indeed! I too rather have Mathilde learn it than onlt Egrimm.

deathofrats0808 said:
Or she could be thinking of a mulled drink, or a herbal infusion or posset or caudle. Or any local hot drink. It's not like she says ale there.


Teclis was too weak to stand, not busy. He'll presumably recover at some point and we don't know when.


Presumably around the outer coast. Across the Inner Sea would both take longer, and be something the Asur are inclined against anyway because the Vortex sits there.
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Imagine if they think Mathildes windsight is too primitive to endanger any secrets and she comes back to the Way stone project with some new understandings; "Now introducing the local prototype- Ulgu-(dhar) vortex!"
"How it works? I simply froze aytheric Vitae before shooting the ice at the exact angle (cat bumped into me) for the fancy dawi bullet (tm) to get stuck spinning in place until a liminal realm opens, sucking in the chosen wind of the caster."
"No worries it is safe as can be! :)"
Algard: :o
 
I'd like doing the Elfcation as soon as possible, BUT only if when we do we already have Waystones being built and planted somewhere (so in case the worst happens, there's still an active production line with all the tools and logistics to continue the Project). I'd be happy with just putting them on Kislev or wherever and leaving... but to do that we really should investigate the local Network/Nexus first. That's applicable to all the places where it's worth putting the first Waystones: Kislev, Mordheim, Sylvania, even Laurelorn itself.

So I think the best course of action would be to spend an action or two investigating such places (maybe Kislev and either Mordheim or Bugman's Brewery?) plus doing another action or two for miscellaneous Waystone stuff (recruiting Bretonnia, or trying to connect the Barak Varr Nexuses, or something about Nehekhara) for a total of about three Waystone actions, since we have Overwork, and then next turn planting a set or two of Waystones, doing last minute preparations and leaving for Ulthuan.
 
Somic said:
He's super busy.


He'll recover, sure, but his duties didn't allow him to even say hi to the Colleges (an unfinished project!) for centuries, and now that Eltharion has been sent to interface with the Waystone Project, he doesn't need to come over there personally.

Does he want to? Oh I bet he does. But...
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He is busy, but like, the whole reason he's busy is that he just got back from going off on some adventure.

The Colleges are frankly, not that unfinished. Teclis spent a quarter century working with them. Would he like to have done more? Sure, but it feels more like a perfectionist thing than an unfinished project thing.

Fehu said:
Imagine if they think Mathildes windsight is too primitive to endanger any secrets and she comes back to the Way stone project with some new understandings; "Now introducing the local prototype- Ulgu-(dhar) vortex!"
"How it works? I simply froze aytheric Vitae before shooting the ice at the exact angle (cat bumped into me) for the fancy dawi bullet (tm) to get stuck spinning in place until a liminal realm opens, sucking in the chosen wind of the caster."
"No worries it is safe as can be! :)"
Algard: :o
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They're probably less worried about secrets and more about the lure of unimaginable power. Also, there's absolutely zero way Mathilde is going to be able to learn the secrets of the Vortex simply by looking at it for a few hours from a distance. It's the masterpiece of one of the greatest mages the world has ever known.
 
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