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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Thomasfoolery said:
Trying to rework the spell has no guarantees. It's not like Mathilde purposefully made the spell hard to understand to start with. She also actually rolled quite well for the most part. I would expect a rework to be quite a bit worse if she could even get it all to work as she'd be working with less comfortable to her metaphors and such, and would probably be multiple AP to accomplish, after which she would be right back to square one of trying to codify it which may or may not work.
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This is not a re-work for the sake of rework this is the last part of the spell creation which is making it understandable to everybody which is the very last part of the process. At no point before this, was a chance that spell could be thought to anybody because it is still incomplete. So saying something like this is just giving up right before the finish line because gold metal has no gold on it so it is pointless. Dude we ran he marathon already just finish it instead of grouching about possibility of rolling low.

Every spell will need codification unless they are very simple spells but this attudute ensures we can never share them because you don't want to finish them it seems.

Also Fog path for Eonir trade is reliant on this so that is ducked if we don't do it.
 
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Tasoli said:
Every spell will need codification unless they are very simple spells but this attudute ensures we can never share them because you don't want to finish them it seems.
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I mean, I'm going to vote for giving codifying it a try, what I'm not willing to commit to is then investing potentially multiple AP afterwards for a chance to try again if the first try doesn't work out.

Tasoli said:
Also Fog path for Eonir trade is reliant on this so that is ducked if we don't do it.
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If it doesn't work it doesn't work. There are other avenues for trade at the end of the day.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I mean, I'm going to vote for giving codifying it a try, what I'm not willing to commit to is then investing potentially multiple AP afterwards for a chance to try again if the first try doesn't work out.
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We did re-work the spell in the past with an overwork action even when it didn't quote work and now it is working better ever so I don't get it. But as long as we try it first it is fine I suppose. We can talk about failure states if that ever happens.
 
Seeing a lot of plans including doing tributaries in Stirland, but I think Middenland would be the better choice. We need to show people who support the project that they will benefit from it, and Middenland is the province that is most on our side. If we're going to start with an Imperial province, it should be them. Otherwise it clouds the message that support will be rewarded, which is a message we want to spread, and keeps the political situation simpler. Because Stirland really provides little benefit to us/the project in the short term, so delaying them to 2nd or 3rd doesn't seem an issue.
 
Since I won't be around for the opening of the vote I'll take this opportunity to post my plan once again and explain my reasoning for it. I delegate the actual posting of the plan when the vote opens to @picklepikkl, who has generously volunteered to do it.

[ ] Plan Lore and Metal
-[ ] Waystone: Mapping (Tilea, Estalia) (Johann)
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm: Cloak of Flashy Escapes (Shadowcloak + Dazzling Brightness)
-[ ] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
-[ ] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[ ] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
-[ ]SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[ ] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windherding enchantment, Branulhune training, EIC action
-[ ] Eike Study: Petty Magics
-[ ] Contains Overwork

And, since it seems quite popular and is pretty close, a Windfall paper variant courtesy of @Deathbybunnies:
[ ] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition.
-[ ] Waystone: Mapping (Tilea, Estalia) (Johann)
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[ ] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
-[ ] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[ ] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
-[ ]SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[ ] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windfall paper, Branulhune training, EIC action
-[ ] Eike Study: Petty Magics
-[ ] Contains Overwork
Why this plan is good - short version
I think this plan gives a pretty balanced and broad selection of actions. For personal projects, we have RoW, Windherding, swording, and getting an artefact off our backlog. For the Waystone project, we continue the mapping of the network, continue studying Waystone components, and get results with tributaries. Eike gets to take part in a Martial action, a non-magical Learning action, a magical Learning actions, and a Stewardship action. It even manages to get the WEB-MAT bonus action. To those worried about CF for the Morbing, we're writing a paper and Windherding an item that could be given to the Colleges and codifying a spell, so unless we roll horrendously on 3 different actions we're more or less certain to get the required CF (which is just 3 CF).

It's one and only unquestionable drawback is that it has nothing for Aksel to do. This is bad and sad and I hate it, but they can't all be winners. On the bright side I think Aksel isn't likely to cause any problems for us, we'll just need to make sure Aksel is involved in stuff the next two turns.

and the Windfall variant is also cool I guess
Why this plan is good - long version
Codifying Rite Of Way - with the Gambler - will hopefully provide the Colleges with a new and useful spell, as well as pave the way for a trade route between the Eonir and the Empire. Progressing our sword style is always nice, but it has a secondary benefit now that we have an apprentice, as it is one of the only safe martial actions we have and will hopefully allow us to assess Eike's martial capabilities and her attitude towards violence.

Studying the Lustrian Rubbings will knock off an artefact from our painfully large backlog, while Windherding with Egrimm will progress another project that has been on the backburner for a long time. The former will give Eike an opportunity to actually take part in a research project instead of just listening to Mathilde and Max tell her about the results of their research, and the latter will provide Eike with her first exposure to enchanting as well as allow her to spend time with the last WEB-MAT member she hasn't yet worked with. In the Windfall variant the Windherding is replaced by Egrimm writing the Windfall paper, which I believe will be educational to Eike as it's a paper which includes a bunch of Wizards with very different Windsights (visual, olfactory, auditory, and visceral) attempting to communicate their insights in a way that would make sense to other Wizards. This could be valuable to someone with the kind of Windsight Eike has.

On the Waystone project front, our free WEB-MAT action will be used to map Tilea and Eastlia, nearly completing the map of the Old World's Waystone network. Our two personal Waystone actions will be used to look into a third Waystone component - the Capstone - and implementing water spirit tributaries in Stirland.

Stirland is a good candidate for the first province to enjoy the fruits of the Waystone project, being right next to Sylvania and therefore suffering from a relatively high level of ambient Dhar. Stirland isn't as blighted with Dhar as Sylvania, of course, but Sylvanina doesn't have functioning Waystones, meaning we can't erect tributaries there. Convincing the local power structure to agree to this will be trivial since we're personal friends with the local power structure. The rivers of Stirland make it well suited for the Water Spirit tributaries, which require water. And the local Council of Manhorak worships a pantheon of watery Gods, so they'll hopefully have relevant water-spirit expertise.

The library action is the Nuln deal - to those who missed the discussion, the idea is that we'll use our boon with the Karaz-a-Karak metalsmithing guild to help reconstruct Nuln's artillery industry in exchange for books, a win-win deal that will help the Empire while improving our library. The EIC sets up the charcoal trade, which might seem premature when we haven't created a RoW road yet, but on the other hand setting up a sub-par trade route for charcoal right now might actually end up working in our favour: when we propose the RoW path we'll be able to point to a concrete good with existing buyers that will become easier to transport to Tor Lithanel if the road is approved.
 
Hydroplatypus said:
Seeing a lot of plans including doing tributaries in Stirland, but I think Middenland would be the better choice. We need to show people who support the project that they will benefit from it, and Middenland is the province that is most on our side. If we're going to start with an Imperial province, it should be them. Otherwise it clouds the message that support will be rewarded, which is a message we want to spread, and keeps the political situation simpler. Because Stirland really provides little benefit to us/the project in the short term, so delaying them to 2nd or 3rd doesn't seem an issue.
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The Middlelanders are in too deep to abandon the Eonir now that it is a religious conflict. We are better off trying to draw in other provinces, if not Sirland than others who have a dark magic problem.
 
Hydroplatypus said:
Seeing a lot of plans including doing tributaries in Stirland, but I think Middenland would be the better choice. We need to show people who support the project that they will benefit from it, and Middenland is the province that is most on our side. If we're going to start with an Imperial province, it should be them. Otherwise it clouds the message that support will be rewarded, which is a message we want to spread, and keeps the political situation simpler. Because Stirland really provides little benefit to us/the project in the short term, so delaying them to 2nd or 3rd doesn't seem an issue.
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I can see your point to a degree, but Middenland is kind of benefiting quite a bit just by the project happening at all, even disregarding deliverables. If the Eonir suddenly decided "Yeah we're taking our ball and going home." and cut off all contact again Middenland would be massively humiliated. So having the project going on and providing an incentive for that not to happen, is actually a solid benefit all on its own.
 
Codex said:
On one hand, I'm happy to see something similar to my cultures traditional headwear. On the other hand, i have no idea whats going on there.
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Good answer: This is clearly a successful trading port, in which different cultures meet ! Taming local dinosaurs, presumably with the aid of the Skinks, is just another sign of this stunning Diplomacy / Stewardship strategy !
Real answer: The artist googled "Middle Eastern hats" and drew every single result. I actually tried it, all those hats and more popped up in the first page or two of results.
 
A few thoughts on tributary deployment across the Old World:

Reikland:
-Possible tributaries: Dreaming Wood (Safe-ish, may be hindered by the Aetheric Shunt), Water Spirit, Haléthan (Requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: No political roadblocks, the Emperor has already given us his full approval. Support from the Colleges readily available. No significant and active threats.
-Cons: Reikland is probably the province that needs waystone support the least, may be accused of playing favourites by the other provinces.
-Allies: The Emperor, the Colleges of Magic
-Threats: Forest Gribblies, Drachenfels?

Stirland & Sylvania:
-Possible tributaries: Water Spirit, Haléthan (requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: Home territory, support from Roswita and the Council of Manhorak, desperately requires any form of Dhar cleansing.
-Cons: Dangerous terrain, no active waystone network
-Allies: Roswita, Markgraf Nyklaus, Kasmir and the Bog Priests, Zhufbar
-Threats: Vampires, necromancers, undead.

Averland:
-Possible tributaries: Water Spirit, Haléthan (requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: Mostly open farmland.
-Cons: Low priority, safe-ish province, EC is madder than a box of hares.
-Allies: None
-Threats: Greenskins, overly curious cattle, Averlanders

Wissenland:
-Possible tributaries: Water Spirit, Haléthan (requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: Mostly open farmland, soon to be very good friends with the Elector, home of the Elementallists.
-Cons: Elementalists, low priority province.
-Allies: Count Konstantin, maybe Elementalists?
-Threats: Skaven, Elementalists?

Talabecland:
-Possible tributaries: Dreaming Wood (Safe-ish), Water Spirit, Haléthan (Requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: Heart of the Cult of Taal and Rhya
-Cons: Large province
-Allies: Longshanks, Royal Academy of Talabecland (collegiate branch)
-Threats: Forest Gribblies

Hochland:
-Possible tributaries: Dreaming Wood (Safe-ish), Water Spirit, Haléthan (Requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: Smallest province, has it's own college of magic.
-Cons: Doesn't exist
-Allies: Hochland College of Magic
-Threats: Forest Gribblies

Ostermark:
-Possible tributaries: Dreaming Wood (Dangerous), Water Spirit, Haléthan
-Pros: Hedgewise, border with Kislev
-Cons: Forest of Shadows
-Allies: Ostermark Hedgewise
-Threats: Forest Gribblies, Forest of Shadows

Nordland:
-Possible tributaries: Dreaming Wood (Dangerous), Water Spirit, Haléthan
-Pros: Hedgewise
-Cons: Forest of Shadows, hostile towards Laurelorn and Middenland
-Allies: Nordland Hedgewise
-Threats: Forest Gribblies, Forest of Shadows

Ostland:
-Possible tributaries: Dreaming Wood (Dangerous), Water Spirit, Haléthan
-Pros: Hedgewise
-Cons: Forest of Shadows
-Allies: Ostland Hedgewise
-Threats: Forest Gribblies, Forest of Shadows

Middenland
-Possible tributaries: Dreaming Wood (Dangerous), Water Spirit, Haléthan (Requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: Allied to Laurelorn, no political roadblocks, full support of EC and Ar-Ulric
-Cons: Dangerous terrain, conflict within the Cult of Ulric
-Allies: Cult of Ulric, Alchemists Guild
-Threats: Forest Gribblies

Moot
-Possible tributaries: Water Spirit, Haléthan (Requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: Friendly and practical, open farmland
-Cons: Border with Sylvania
-Allies: Hafling Cults, Elder Hisme, K8P Halfling community
-Threats: Undead, Stirlanders

Kislev
-Possible tributaries: Dreaming Wood (Dangerous, Shirokij only), Water Spirit, Haléthan (Requires Priest of Halétha, except within the Shirokij)
-Pros: Full support of the Tzarevich, two well established magic traditions
-Cons: Dangerous terrain, Praag, Troll Country, Winter
-Allies: Boris, Ice Witches, Hag Witches
-Threats: Trolls, Chaos, Demons, Kurgan, Norscans, Winter, Vampires?

Karaz Ankor
-Possible tributaries: Water Spirit, Haléthan (Requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: Full support of Karak Eight Peaks and Karak Azul
-Cons: Unlikely to trust human and elf magics, needs a runic tributary
-Allies: Karak Eight Peaks, Karak Azul, Runesmiths Guild
-Threats: Mountain Gribblies, Greenskins, Skaven.

Bretonnia
-Possible tributaries: Water Spirit, Haléthan (Requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: Damsels, Fey Enchantress
-Cons: Not yet recruited or mapped, Asrai?
-Allies: Carcassonne
-Threats: Forest Gribblies, Mountain Gribblies, Iron Orcs, Undead, Asrai?

Estalia/Tilea
-Possible tributaries: Water Spirit, Haléthan (Requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: One of the few exits out of the Old World for the Waystone Network
-Cons: Not mapped, no contacts, not unified and no central authority
-Allies: ???
-Threats: Gribblies, Skaven

Border Princes
-Possible tributaries: Water Spirit, Haléthan (Requires Priest of Halétha)
-Pros: Once a link in the waystone network between Ulthuan and the Karaz Ankor
-Cons: not unified and no central authority, Greenskins everywhere, who even cares about this place?
-Allies: Karak Eight Peaks, Barak Varr, Mad Dog Pass
-Threats: Gribblies, Skaven, Greenskins, Bandits, Border Princes
 
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Another potential advantage of Ostland is that they are one of like 3 provinces that can actually interact with the Eonir at all, due to the possibility of sea trade from their section of coastline. If the elector count understands and appreciates the benefits of waystone tributaries - which is not a given - doing it there would improve relation with one of the few other elector counts that actually matter to the Eonir in anything less than an empire-wide war. They are also adjacent to Nordland, and having both provinces bordering Nordland friendly with the Eonir probably helps dissuade Nordland from doing anything too drastic.
 
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mathymancer said:
[ ] Plan Lore and Metal
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We can probably fold Aksel into the capstone action, actually. This is because, as Lector of the Cult of Haletha, his role is essentially "waystone loremaster", as we can see in this interaction here:

Boney said:
"The only known source of it is, of course, to extract it from a Waystone, so possession of it has been a capital offence since the time of Sigmar." You give a glance to Aksel, who nods.
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I think there's a follow up quote from Boney about this somewhere, but I can't find it.

I'd also take Eike off Branulhune training, and have her study combat/spar with the Undumgi, because I think she'll learn more that way than trying to help with our super advanced combat style.
 
Hydroplatypus said:
Another potential advantage of Ostland is that they are one of like 3 provinces that can actually interact with the Eonir at all, due to the possibility of sea trade from their section of coastline. If the elector count understands and appreciates the benefits of waystone tributaries - which is not a given - doing it there would improve relation with one of the few other elector counts that actually matter to the Eonir in anything less than an empire-wide war. They are also adjacent to Nordland, and having both provinces bordering Nordland friendly with the Eonir probably helps dissuade Nordland from doing anything too drastic.
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For what it's worth, canon is pretty complimentary towards the current elector, Maximillian von Königswald.
 
@Boney, if you get a chance before the vote opens: do we know if Egrimm speaks Tilean? I figure we might have overheard him talking to the Choir on the Karag Dum expedition, if he does.
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
We can probably fold Aksel into the capstone action, actually. This is because, as Lector of the Cult of Haletha, his role is essentially "waystone loremaster", as we can see in this interaction here:



I think there's a follow up quote from Boney about this somewhere, but I can't find it.

I'd also take Eike off Branulhune training, and have her study combat/spar with the Undumgi, because I think she'll learn more that way than trying to help with our super advanced combat style.
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Unfortunately mathymancer has gone to bed because timezones. Personally, I think your Aksel reasoning is fine, but I agreed to post his plan as-is without editorializing (albeit with "putting Egrimm on the mapping" if it turns out he speaks Tilean).

The point of having Eike on the Branulhune action was less "make her learn things" (which I agree that an Eike Study action would be better at) and more "have Mathilde learn more about her attitudes towards violence"; as such, including her on that action makes sense, because right now we know almost nothing. Getting a sense of her Martial score and learning what some of those Skills she has are would be very nice for figuring out her future development, and the way we learn Eike's character sheet is by having Mathilde interact with her on relevant subjects.
 
Mopman43 said:
All right, second option for a Tilean speaker- drop Johann off in Miragliano, pick him up 6 months later. He should be fluent by then, and have picked up several vendettas and a fondness for open flowing shirts.
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I mean, if we're looking for a Tilean speaker, we're definitely going to want to learn Tilean ourselves at some point, for the Library bonuses. We could bump something not time-sensitive back a turn and learn Tilean with Polyglot.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
I mean, if we're looking for a Tilean speaker, we're definitely going to want to learn Tilean ourselves at some point, for the Library bonuses. We could bump something not time-sensitive back a turn and learn Tilean with Polyglot.
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We have at least four languages we really want and ought to learn.
Nehekaran for the vampire books and magic study
Kislevite for further dealings with Kislev (who are in the project)
Magic khazalit (i have forgotten it's actual name) also for magic language stuff
Anoquyan (spelling is probably wrong) also for magic language shenanigans
So good luck with getting a fifth in.
 
Tasoli said:
Its just bagel;
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sucked intoooo a bage;...

Yeah, those are what I'd call (large) bagels, but calling them donuts felt a tiny bit more fun.
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Hochland:
-Cons: Doesn't exist
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I was looking at this and literally lol'd when I read it.
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Wissenland:
soon to be very good friends with the Elector
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Huh? Why is Count Konstantin now our bff?
 
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