Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Cython is powerful sure, but I wouldn't even bet on them against Morathi in a magical duel, let alone Morathi and the rest of the Sisterhood. Plus Ghrond is only a fairly short distance from Naggarond, so Malekith would probably turn up on dragonback fairly shortly.
No evidence that they do thus far. It's possible but unlikely IMO.
- Location
- Utrecht
Not that we've seen.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
We have yet to see any, so we don't know. Athel Loren has at least one, so it isn't out of the realm of possibility.
Who said anything about a duel? The idea is to loot her library and fly off.
I do not think Malekith would be able to outfly a Hysh Dragon of all things. Speed of Light is the word.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Again, I'm not sure that Cython is going to be having much magical success against the kind of numbers and skill the Sisterhood of Ghrond contains. And you can't loot the library without first fighting said Sisterhood because they live in it.Who said anything about a duel? The idea is to loot her library and fly off.
I do not think Malekith would be able to outfly a Hysh Dragon of all things. Speed of Light is the word.
It occurs to me that one of the groups that tends to mess with Waystones for naferious purposes is vampires, therefore Waystone Gold may be found in the possesion of vampires. We should keep an eye out for any when we go book mining, and if we bring a Celestial to help us as was suggested we should ask them to use divination to search for it (although I'm not sure if that fits the description of the spell - it's a material, not an item, and maybe that's not specific enough or something)
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Good shout there. I believe the spell can be used to find materials. An example given in Realms of Sorcery is a source of clean water, so I don't really see why Waystone Gold wouldn't work.
- Location
- Earth
Speaking of hiring Celestials, the College Favor price seems to be 5 per 6 months for a Magister. Should we maybe do some Windherding as well that turn to get more use out of that 5, or is there a way to reduce CF costs for help on a single action rather than a full turn?
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Athel Loren has one of the five great leaders of dragonkind, so i would say thats bit of an understatement.
OTOH, it does not just have him, Rhya does. Athel Loren power structures are likely complicated beyond belief.
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K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Athel Loren has several of them, they're a unit in the tabletop. There's obviously not as many t as in Caledor, but not just one.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The list price is for a specific task, not "anything I can think of for six months."
If we want someone to Windherd with spells, we've got plenty of wizards to do that with. If we want someone to Windherd with in an enchantment, our options are to pay the enchantment costs and a regular AP, or use Egrimm and a WEB-MAT AP.
SakSak
Unbound
- Location
- The Cold Wastes of the North
I'm not sure the Dhar-production is that much of a secret: Non-functional Waystones turn into dhar-pools anyway, and we cannot be literally the first wizard to have made that observation. This is something Chaos related groups are well aware of, so the idea that Waystones can be corrupted or intentionally broken shouldn't be news to anyone.
So what exactly should we be keeping secret? Based on the discussion so far, even not knowing the Secrets of Dhar, it is easy to come to the conclusion that Waystones could be linked with dhar beyond the level of incidental, and therefore attempting to replicate it could be considered Article 7 violation (since even touching dhar with the aim of making it do anything, no matter how briefly or how small, is a violation). No information beyond what is known to Journeymen level wizards and the previous discussion is needed for this leap of logic to at least consider the possibility.
The way I see it going is:
Mathilde: "Algard, you of course know about the Waystone project I've started?"
Algard: "Yes?"
Mathilde: "It turns out that based on preliminary information, part of their function may involve the use, manipulation or maybe even incidental creation of dhar. We just don't more yet at this stage. But under Article 7, this means Waystones are technically devices of Dark Magic and since we are studying them with the express purpose of building more Waystones, if we continue the project then all involved are heretics that need to be burned at the stake at the first opportunity. Obviously this is a bit of an issue."
Algard: "Obviously. Let's go talk with Dragomas."
Dragomas: "This, if anything, seems like what exceptions to rules are made for. Here, your dispensation; Nature and function of the Waystones may include phenomenon that would be considered Dark Magic under a strict reading of Article 7. After review of available evidence, it is degreed that research conducted by Lady Magister Mathilde Weber and following named people working under her have dispensation to continue their studies without being guilty. There, I'll send word to the other colleges that your project has been granted permission for Waystone related research potentially involving Article 7 concerns and that this is fine."
What we tell Algard and then to Dragomas, doesn't need to be what is then fully spread around or what reads in the official permit. Dragomas understands that not everyone needs to know all the details.
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- Location
- Earth
That's for broken and blocked Waystones, which can't keep moving the magic, causing said magic to stagnate and curdle. The secret here is that functioning Waystones also produce Dhar on purpose.
[X] College Dispensation
SakSak
Unbound
- Location
- The Cold Wastes of the North
1) Dhar occurs naturally whenever two or more winds mix together, or dhar mixes together with any wind.
2) Waystones gather, store, and transmit the winds of magic.
3) As per Sarvoi:
""Why push or pull when there's something at hand that will do it for you? Dhar wants to return from whence it came, and it pulls on the other Winds. If you add one other Wind it'll just get sucked into the Dhar which is counterproductive if you want to make use of that Wind elsewhere, but if you have at least two you can set them up in a stable diametric orbit, as they repel each other exactly as much as the Dhar attracts them.""
the Waystones take advantage of dhar as a crucial and necessary part of their core mechanism.
4) Dhar is not necessarily always naturally available
From there, it does not take a giant leap in logic to consider the possibilities that
a) Waystones might directly manipulate dhar (Dark Magic)
b) Waystones might incidentally but regularly as part of their normal function create dhar (also Dark Magic)
c) Waystones might intentionally create dhar as part of their normal operation (again, Dark Magic)
None of these options needs to be known to be true for certain for any research looking duplicate these effects to run afoul of Article 7, since there is a severe possibility that the project involves touching, using, or creating dhar. Any one of those three is Dark Magic and gets you burned.
All the above facts are known to all human participants of the project.
Point of order, we ourselves do not yet know if Waystones create dhar if there is none available. We surmise and infer that to be the case, but we don't yet know it to be the case. And our insight was in no way uniquely enabled by our forbidden and secret knowledge. It would be politically inconvenient that the Empire and all their allies are alive only because of vast and forbidden sorcery, but that doesn't change the facts and the relevant law in the here and now.
So again, why should any of the above be a secret in our report to Algard and Dragomas?
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- Location
- Hollister
[X] College Dispensation
[X] College Dispensation
Proper channels ho!
Proper channels ho!
- Location
- Earth
The whole thing is that we didn't know about Waystones manufacturing and using Dhar as an essential component (which is different from just sucking it out of the environment and dumping it into the Vortex along with other magic) until Sarvoi brought it up. Once we have that insight, it really isn't hard to deduce that Waystones occasionally create Dhar when there isn't any to be absorbed, but most people in the Empire do not have the insight.
And it's less Algard and Dragomas in particular we don't trust (besides, we can always specifically inform them later), and more that the more people who know in general who don't specifically absolutely have to know, the less secure a secret is. The advantage Imperial has over College is that we can tell things to uninformed people we want in the know, but we can't take a secret back from someone who was informed that we don't want knowing.
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Welcome, Ladies and Gentlemen, to the Grand International Wizarding Smug Off! Two smug wizards enter, one extremely smug wizard and one slightly less smug wizard leave!
Over in the Grey Corner, we have the Dämmerlichtreiter herself—Lady Magister Mathilde Weber! And over in the other Grey Corner, we have the enigmatic rogue researcher, Grey Lord Hatalath! Both increadibly smug wizards—but who will win?
Round 1:
Halatath opens with bold reference to the ancient civilisation of the Old Ones, but Mathilde parries with equally ancient dragon lore, knocking the Elf Lord off centre! Our Lady in Grey takes first blood!
Round 2:
Oh no! Hatalath deeply underestimates his opponent and makes a foolish assumption—a classic schoolboy error. Mathilde sweeps the second round with ease.
Round 3:
Hatalath quickly follows with the name of obscure elven settlement, putting Mathilde on the defensive, but is unable to follow it up with any confidence. Both contestants back off without scoring a point.
Round 4:
Hatalath nearly blows it with a direct inference to the lost isle of Albion, but Mathilde fails to take advantage and draw more information out of him, leaving her off balance. Hatalath finally scores a point, but it was a risky gamble folks.
As the first day of the Grand International Wizarding Smug Off comes to a close, the score boards look like this: Two points to Lady Mathilde, and only one point to Lord Hatalath. Will Mathilde maintain her lead and humble the ancient elf lord, or will Hatalath's greater experience allow him to seize the lead? We'll find out next time on:
Over in the Grey Corner, we have the Dämmerlichtreiter herself—Lady Magister Mathilde Weber! And over in the other Grey Corner, we have the enigmatic rogue researcher, Grey Lord Hatalath! Both increadibly smug wizards—but who will win?
Round 1:
Halatath opens with bold reference to the ancient civilisation of the Old Ones, but Mathilde parries with equally ancient dragon lore, knocking the Elf Lord off centre! Our Lady in Grey takes first blood!
Round 2:
Oh no! Hatalath deeply underestimates his opponent and makes a foolish assumption—a classic schoolboy error. Mathilde sweeps the second round with ease.
Round 3:
Hatalath quickly follows with the name of obscure elven settlement, putting Mathilde on the defensive, but is unable to follow it up with any confidence. Both contestants back off without scoring a point.
Round 4:
Hatalath nearly blows it with a direct inference to the lost isle of Albion, but Mathilde fails to take advantage and draw more information out of him, leaving her off balance. Hatalath finally scores a point, but it was a risky gamble folks.
As the first day of the Grand International Wizarding Smug Off comes to a close, the score boards look like this: Two points to Lady Mathilde, and only one point to Lord Hatalath. Will Mathilde maintain her lead and humble the ancient elf lord, or will Hatalath's greater experience allow him to seize the lead? We'll find out next time on:
The Grand International Wizarding Smug Off!
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As far as we know they built full stones. Not like there were elves on the steppes to make 'full stones' so that had to be all horse nomads before they went all Chaos-y or left.
I thought the Oghams and Kurgans they built serve the same full purpose as waystones? I didn't think they were tributary networks.