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Let's be nice to Alric and credit him for protecting and delaying the ritual, it's better to make friends and avoid enemies, besides Alric earned it bodyguard ING the victims and slowing Alberich down.
He didn't slow Alberich down at all actually. Alberich had set time periods that he had to do the ritual in. Alric already failed to protect at least one of his charges. If we take down Alberich here there is next to no credit available to him.
 
Here is the thing, we have no way to plug those holes really. He was in the realm of chaos. Numberless daemons know what he knows, every conjuror in the Empire might technically find out... but the information would be from a daemon. Those could leave dead drops in his handwriting just as easily, they could instruct every too bit conjuror in whatever the hell Albericht knew.
Actually, this specific example of the Daemons knowing, I'm not so sure about. Because, see, I'm not sure he knew about Heidi when he ran into the Realm of Chaos. That is, all he would have known about Heidi -- if he knew anything at all -- is that of her identity as Countess Whatsername-Not-A-Lahmnian.

Heidi only became revealed as a Haupt-Anderssen after he was in the Realm of Chaos, and only became Empress after. So, Alberich doesn't find out about the Heidi thing until after he returns from the Realm of Chaos. Which means that tons of Daemons probably don't know about it.

((Unless he was scrying on the Realm of Man while in the Realm of Chaos, but in that case, it's impossible to predict what other terrifying secrets he might have picked up about the Empire so who the hell knows anyway.))

That's why I think the Daemons in the Realm of Chaos aren't relevant for this, whereas anything in the physical realm might be.


Though, granted, my bigger hope is being able to squeeze him for information on his Cultist network and connections, and be able to hand off that information to somebody else and let them roll up a network of Chaos cultists.
We did not take the imperial agent job and we certainly cannot do it on the side of our already insanely busy schedule.
Uh. I think that if it did come to AP expenditures (we still probably have some AP remaining in the "spend some time on the Alberich job" mini-turn) it would be well worth it to interrogate somebody in order to roll up a bunch of Chaos cultists? Like... while it's always great to take out a scary Chaos Cultist, it's even better to be able to take out a potential network or any contacts he might have had too?

That's the job of the Grey College in general, in general?

We can always say "I'm too busy with delicate business to do this" but the truth is that, uhm... ... the Waystone Project isn't super timing-sensitive? Like, we can spend years on it? The Elves are Elves; they're long-lived. They can wait years if need be.

What we can't -- well we can, but we shouldn't -- do is skive off and do a minimum job. But we aren't actually rushing against a deadline. And we're not in an under-siege warzone like Karak Eight Peaks used to be at the start, so there's not that kind of risk or danger either.

Nobody is forcing you to both take an "insanely busy schedule" and to progress through that schedule at maximum speed.

And in fact given that we're working with both Elves and Dwarfs, we probably shouldn't do this as fast as possible, and in fact should get all our ducks in a row rather than going "C'mon we've been doing this for 2 years, we should hit the big button to start the project already."
 
[X] Kill: Dragonflask

Erasing a possible threat to the empire completly and making sure nothing remains but a pile of ash, which should not leave any great complications. And interrogating the carriers should lead us to his hideout at least. Also being known as flashy blunt instrument might lead someone to underestimate Mathildes sneakyness in the future.
 
Let's be nice to Alric and credit him for protecting and delaying the ritual, it's better to make friends and avoid enemies, besides Alric earned it bodyguard ING the victims and slowing Alberich down.

How did Alric slow him down? The ritual is on schedule, by definition that means that up to this point Alric has done nothing of note to stop it. He might have inconvenienced Alberich in some way but we have no way of verifying that.
 
Alric did his duty albeit for ulterior motives, he did guard the remaining victims, so let's just give him his due credit which is guarding the would be victims, so we don't trample anyone or leave him too bitter about not being the one to stop Alberich.
 
Another thing to note is that this isn't the sort of situation where you can try to play all sides and get along with everyone. Sometimes, getting along with someone and siding with them for favors means that someone else will not like you, until you decide to give up that side and join the opposing one. But doing so removes their trust in your reliability because clearly you turn on your allies. Giving Alric credit is likely to get Mira mad and have her question if Mathilde is actually a trustworthy ally, and Alric isn't going to trust Mathilde just because she gave him some credit because she clearly took most of it anyway. Everybody ends up mad and salty and we end up the losers.

Instead of trying to half ass two things, let's whole ass one thing.
 
Actually, this specific example of the Daemons knowing, I'm not so sure about. Because, see, I'm not sure he knew about Heidi when he ran into the Realm of Chaos. That is, all he would have known about Heidi -- if he knew anything at all -- is that of her identity as Countess Whatsername-Not-A-Lahmnian.

Heidi only became revealed as a Haupt-Anderssen after he was in the Realm of Chaos, and only became Empress after. So, Alberich doesn't find out about the Heidi thing until after he returns from the Realm of Chaos. Which means that tons of Daemons probably don't know about it.

((Unless he was scrying on the Realm of Man while in the Realm of Chaos, but in that case, it's impossible to predict what other terrifying secrets he might have picked up about the Empire so who the hell knows anyway.))

That's why I think the Daemons in the Realm of Chaos aren't relevant for this, whereas anything in the physical realm might be.


Though, granted, my bigger hope is being able to squeeze him for information on his Cultist network and connections, and be able to hand off that information to somebody else and let them roll up a network of Chaos cultists.

Uh. I think that if it did come to AP expenditures (we still probably have some AP remaining in the "spend some time on the Alberich job" mini-turn) it would be well worth it to interrogate somebody in order to roll up a bunch of Chaos cultists? Like... while it's always great to take out a scary Chaos Cultist, it's even better to be able to take out a potential network or any contacts he might have had too?

That's the job of the Grey College in general, in general?

We can always say "I'm too busy with delicate business to do this" but the truth is that, uhm... ... the Waystone Project isn't super timing-sensitive? Like, we can spend years on it? The Elves are Elves; they're long-lived. They can wait years if need be.

What we can't -- well we can, but we shouldn't -- do is skive off and do a minimum job. But we aren't actually rushing against a deadline. And we're not in an under-siege warzone like Karak Eight Peaks used to be at the start, so there's not that kind of risk or danger either.

Nobody is forcing you to both take an "insanely busy schedule" and to progress through that schedule at maximum speed.

And in fact given that we're working with both Elves and Dwarfs, we probably shouldn't do this as fast as possible, and in fact should get all our ducks in a row rather than going "C'mon we've been doing this for 2 years, we should hit the big button to start the project already."

Alberich himself would know he is the last of his line, he is noble and a proud one so he would know his genealogy. It is safe to assume that if someone went for a stroll through the realm of Chaos there are daemons who know everything they know. Now the empress later said publicly 'I am part of that family' so the daemons with the inside knowledge would know she is bullshitting

AP? No, we don't have to personally handle this. We already recruited the Longshanks. Turn him over to them.

Just because I did not vote to play as his caretaker does not mean I want Mandred dead, we got him a horsey and everything.
 
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Unfahiger with some weird two dot thing somewhere in there. I don't do German. They call themselves the Krieglitz now.
1. Unfähiger (germam) = incapable OR unfit OR incompetent
A really unflattering name.

2. Krieglitz
A) Krieg (germam) = war
B) Litz has no translation or deeper meaning from the past. It is the name of a german river through.
The translation/interpretation of their new family name is something in the direction of: "the fought over river".
 
Guys I know we are all focused on Stinky McMutantArm here, but have you thought of how this might come off to Alric is he does suspect the empress of being a Chaos worshiper? I think that is worth keeping in mind as he would know just saving the noble family least liked by the colleges is unlikely to give him the respect and power he wants back. So let's plot this out:
  1. Alric has become convnced the empress if a Chaos Cultist Haupt Anderssen doing a vengeance ritual
  2. SUDDENLY a Grey Wizard known to be close to the empress (we visited her at the palace more than once) swoops in and kills a mutant she claims was the old count who did not die after all but fell into the warp
  3. The Cultist himself is dead, either ash in the wind or cut in half
  4. Alric the only one who suspects the perfidious empress is left to languish in exile far from the levers of power
We might have a long term problem on our hands here guys. I hesitate to warn Heidi about it since she might choose to just kill Alric out of an abundence of caution and we do not really have the information to justify that.
What? Where the heck did that even come from?

Alric's available information, at most, points to him being able to squeeze a favor out of the Empress, because having a Haupt-Anderssen fall to Chaos, returning and enacting a fell ritual is the kind of scandal no Empress wants hanging at her back, and would be grateful to a Lord Magister for cleaning up.

If he comes into close contact with Alberich, then there is a chance that Heidi not being a legitimate Haupt-Anderssen might become a relevant matter, whether because it came up in the dialog, or follow up actions to figure out when and how he returned might potentially expose her.


[X] Kill: Dragonflask

The Andersson version of this death is choking on a fish bone right? Does this guy just have an alive piranha then? I imagine this version involves shoving a live fish down someone's throat.
I've seen the scene in Final Destination. You could just shove a fish of the right size into the guy's throat and hold his nose shut until he dies. Or the budget version of shoving a fish in his mouth and then choking him out.

Or use the hypnotic musk to make him to it himself.
I am surprised that one of the captures isn't getting more love. Now is when the thread choses to not be ambitious?

You know, being be to unwind this dude's cultist network could do a lot of good in the world. Forget criticism for Mathilde for not being subtle enough. What about criticism for neglecting a capture-and-interrogate option in favor of a sure kill when this dude is a long way from actually carrying out his plan? What, you don't like intelligence on Chaos cultists? You don't think Mathilde can manage it?

[X] Capture: Throttle

[X] Capture: Mockery of Death
Capture is directly counter to our goals here:
-Prevent Chaos winning - Done whether captured or dead.
-Keep Heidi's origins away from scrutiny - Failed if captured and interrogated, tied up loose end if dead.
-Steal Alric's credit - Done whether captured or dead.
On the flip side of this, Alric is likely going to be extremely pissed. He thinks that stopping the ritual is his big chance at getting back into the game politically, and we completely blindsided him, taking most if not all of the credit in the process (if something doesn't go horribly wrong).

What's even worse, it's going to look quite suspicious. He'll likely try to pull some strings to find out exactly what deal we struck with Mira. If he manages to find out that actively thwarting him was never part of the original agreement, he'll start looking for reasons. Unfortunately his conclusion might well be that those reasons are Empress related ones.
Not possible - the only person who knows what we agreed to with Mira is Mira, and the only people we told are Regimand(+stretching the costs ) and Horstmann(who only knows we got him his shiny new medals, but not what was spent for it).
None of them will spill.

Well, if you're worried about Alberich knowing too much about Heidi... there is another issue involved here, y'know?

Look at it this way; if we capture him, then we can interrogate him and find out whether or not he knows the Empress is a fake Haupt-Anderssen and whether he's set up any contingencies (or just left intel caches) implicating her.

That is; the threat of Heidi's reveal might not be ended with just Alberich's death. That's why interrogating him might be useful. Or at least -- if successful, anyway -- it might reveal to us for sure "Yeah, he doesn't know"/"Yeah, he didn't leave any deadrops or anything."


Choosing to kill him means deciding "Yeah there's no further threat here, if he's dead, threat over."

Because keep in mind that if we didn't stop things with this murder, then we would have been still stuck spending AP on stopping him before the next murder anyway.

That is; some of the AP being spent is "Event AP" rather than "Main-turn AP" anyway. Interrogating Alberich might take time from "event time" rather than "turn time" so you do not necessarily have to worry about AP that much. (Though, it's also kind of uncaring to go "Meh we don't even live in the Empire most of the time anyway, doesn't matter, and I don't want to take the risk of needing to use more AP for this." Like... it is our job and duty to fight chaos and evil for the Empire. Also, people we care about live in the Empire too.)
The main threat is that an existing Haupt-Anderssen can call attention to the Empress's lack of credibility. Its not about the information, its about him specifically.
 
Alberich himself would know he is the last of his line, he is noble and a proud one so he would know his genealogy. It is safe to assume that if someone went for a stroll through the realm of Chaos there are daemons who know everything they know. Now the empress later said publicly 'I am part of that family' so the daemons with the inside knowledge would know she is bullshitting



Just because I did not vote to play as his caretaker does not mean I want Mandred dead, we got him a horsey and everything.
Except all other possible explanations like her being somebody that was thought/faked dead, being hidden away for some reason like threats or the most likely reason, she is illegitimate daughter of somebody in the family. All of which would dodge Alberichs accusations.
 
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On the flip side of this, Alric is likely going to be extremely pissed. He thinks that stopping the ritual is his big chance at getting back into the game politically, and we completely blindsided him, taking most if not all of the credit in the process (if something doesn't go horribly wrong).

What's even worse, it's going to look quite suspicious. He'll likely try to pull some strings to find out exactly what deal we struck with Mira. If he manages to find out that actively thwarting him was never part of the original agreement, he'll start looking for reasons. Unfortunately his conclusion might well be that those reasons are Empress related ones.

Not sure why it'd be suspicious.

Leaving aside the duty all Magisters have at fighting Chaos there's also the fact that Alric is doing this for the credit so it'll be very easy to assume that Mathilde wants the same thing.

Dunking on Alric would just make Mathilde look even better - she's a new LM specialised in vampires, orcs and skaven who is suddenly doing a better job fighting Chaos than the Magister Patriarch of the Lights.
 
Alberich himself would know he is the last of his line, he is noble and a proud one so he would know his genealogy. It is safe to assume that if someone went for a stroll through the realm of Chaos there are daemons who know everything they know. Now the empress later said publicly 'I am part of that family' so the daemons with the inside knowledge would know she is bullshitting
Eh, I'm not so convinced. Alberich might think he's the last of his line, but that's just knowledge or belief about his status; "Thinks he is the last Haupt-Anderson." Until he gets confronted with somebody going 'I'm a Haupt-Anderson!' it doesn't become relevant, at which point, he might be able to gather proof or write it down or whatnot.

Basically what I'm saying is, papers or information in the physical world might be more credible or believable than "whatever Daemons in the Realms of Chaos" might know. If Alberich left any caches behind, they'd be of relevance in the physical realm; whatever he left in the Realm of Chaos would be, well, not relevant.

Now granted, I'm not sure how his arrogance would play in here. On the one hand, his arrogance might mean that he'd assume that he'd never lose, which means he wouldn't have any 'in case of my death' contingencies. On the other hand, maybe he's spiteful enough to have such contingencies. Not sure. It's possible his only 'evidence' would be first-hand accounts of "That woman is not any family of mine!" and so the problem dies with him.


Though anyway, again, I think a more relevant and important possibility here is "Whatever he might know about Chaos plots and Chaos cultists in the Empire" or "whatever caches or boltholes Alberich might have". That is probably something very valuable, if we can get him to cough it up, and something I'd love to be able to get my hands on.
 
Not sure why it'd be suspicious.

Leaving aside the duty all Magisters have at fighting Chaos there's also the fact that Alric is doing this for the credit so it'll be very easy to assume that Mathilde wants the same thing.

Dunking on Alric would just make Mathilde look even better - she's a new LM specialised in vampires, orcs and skaven who is suddenly doing a better job fighting Chaos than the Magister Patriarch of the Lights.
Not so suddenly if people payed attention to the Karag Dum expedition and the whole "Pulling Vlag out of the Warp" thing, which might not be available to the general public but certainly to the Colleges.
 
Except all other possible explanations like her being somebody that was thought/faked dead, being hidden away for some reason like threats or the most likely reason, she is illegitimate daughter of somebody in the family. All of which would dodge Alberichs accusations.

Well yeah, but how well do the excuses hold out to investigation? The idea behind this action was to keep the empress from having to roll those dice at all, that is why we stuck around in the first place instead of sending a letting off to Mira and going on our way.
 
Well yeah, but how well do the excuses hold out to investigation? The idea behind this action was to keep the empress from having to roll those dice at all, that is why we stuck around in the first place instead of sending a letting off to Mira and going on our way.
I already confirmed with Boney that we can dissapear him for interrogation. There is no risk if we do that, just adjust the transcript as needed. In the meantime Hoclander can roll up the chaos cult and everybody wins.
 
I've seen the scene in Final Destination. You could just shove a fish of the right size into the guy's throat and hold his nose shut until he dies. Or the budget version of shoving a fish in his mouth and then choking him out.
Yeah see, you lose me at pinching his nose shut. It sounds too tame for the violent evil blood god ritual, I imagined a fish that eats his throat from the inside, then parody-Alien scene, then cue CGI blood splat on the camera.

Haven't read the whole discussion yet, but would Dragonflask or Branulhune be more deceptive?

I know that no one has seen us use Dragonflask, I imagine since it's custom that it's traceable but they have to go through to Altdorf.

How signature(?) is Branulhune to Mathilde's identity? Do the runes glow blue so people with connections to an information network can link it to Mathilde?
 
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