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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] Plan CoolPlanName

I'm opposed to bringing in either of the lights due to potential divided loyalties, we didn't bring in Egrimm when this was just surveillance, bringing him in now for active sabotage is the entire dilemma we avoided but magnified even further. And Elrisse isn't even opposed to Alric so bringing her in to directly sabotage him seems like a bad idea, and of course the more people we bring in the harder it is to ensure our actual objective happens. So focus on information gathering first, we can always renegotiate with Mira if we have time in our timetable later.
 
Andres said:
[X] Plan Gimme the Loot
-[X] Plunder Krieglitz Manor
-[X] Plunder Krieglitz Manor x2
-[X] Plunder Krieglitz Manor x3
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I don't agree with this, but I respect the hustle.

[X] Plan CoolPlanName
[X] Plan Redshirt v1

Tossing an approval vote Redshirt's way, as my favorite of the "talk to Mira" plans. Of the "don't talk to Mira" plans, I think CoolPlanName does the most worthwhile stuff, and encourage people voting for other "don't talk to Mira" plans to support it.
 
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Jreengus said:
I'm opposed to bringing in either of the lights due to potential divided loyalties, we didn't bring in Egrimm when this was just surveillance, bringing him in now for active sabotage is the entire dilemma we avoided but magnified even further. And Elrisse isn't even opposed to Alric so bringing her in to directly sabotage him seems like a bad idea, and of course the more people we bring in the harder it is to ensure our actual objective happens. So focus on information gathering first, we can always renegotiate with Mira if we have time in our timetable later.
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The beautiful thing about helping Alric is that nobody can really complain. Calling it sabotage is a bit much since we are actively helping him. It's hurting Alric's political ploy without really being hostile against him.

After all, if Alric can succeed it can still assuage his ego even if he had help. It also proves to others that he's not completely good for nothing. After all, considering his recent setbacks, Alric might even be pretty happy to get a partial win. Don't forget that at least one of the Unfahigers died under his care, if more die, it's a very bad look for him that Mira can take advantage of. He doesn't know that we have a vested interest in the case.

On the other hand, if we help him, we are appearing to be ready to compromise and put the good of the empire above all else. If anything it's more diplomatic than him learning that we interfered in his investigation without even talking to him. It's gonna hinder us quite a bit if we must do all of our investigation trying to stay hidden from the Patriarch of the order that specialises in revealing what is concealed while he's alert due to being on a mission.

At the very least, working with Alric means better relations with him in the long term (unless we are able to make sure he never learns we worked against him). And if we are going to work with Alric anyway, better to get paid by Mira for it and avoid working with Alric without telling her beforehand (which might lead to misunderstandings).
 
Rafin said:
Can someone chime in with a bit of info on these?

All I know about Exalted Daemons is that they are versions of classical Daemon types that are above their siblings in some way. Essentially Daemon heroes. What kinds of examples of mortals becoming them are there?
As for Darksouls, I have no idea who or what they are.
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What an Exalted Daemon means differs depending on the source, but in 2nd Edition WFRP Exalted Daemon means a mortal who's been possessed by a Greater Daemon. This is one step below a Greater Daemon. Because the Exalted Daemon is using a mortal as a vessel, they can stay in the mortal plane without the instability of their Daemonic form, but they're weaker than their usual state and the body of the mortal typically deteriorates greatly until they eventually die. However, there are cases of people sealing a Daemon inside of them instead of the opposite, although usually the Daemon eventually wins.

If you want an example of an Exalted Daemon? Look no further than my favorite Druchii. Malus Darkblade:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scgpc5nePwA

It takes a certain kind of person to unironically say "with hate, all things are possible" with a straight face. No wonder he's one of those super rare people who managed to survive a Greater Daemon inside him for so long. In fact, I think it's mentioned that he no longer even has a soul. Don't ask me how he's still alive. He apparently takes stimulants to keep himself constantly awake because if he ever sleeps then Tz'arkan takes over.
 
Sleepless and soulless, wow. Sounds like your typical undergrad at the end of semester, but all year round.
 
Codex said:
What an Exalted Daemon means differs depending on the source, but in 2nd Edition WFRP Exalted Daemon means a mortal who's been possessed by a Greater Daemon. This is one step below a Greater Daemon. Because the Exalted Daemon is using a mortal as a vessel, they can stay in the mortal plane without the instability of their Daemonic form, but they're weaker than their usual state and the body of the mortal typically deteriorates greatly until they eventually die. However, there are cases of people sealing a Daemon inside of them instead of the opposite, although usually the Daemon eventually wins.

If you want an example of an Exalted Daemon? Look no further than my favorite Druchii. Malus Darkblade:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scgpc5nePwA

It takes a certain kind of person to unironically say "with hate, all things are possible" with a straight face. No wonder he's one of those super rare people who managed to survive a Greater Daemon inside him for so long. In fact, I think it's mentioned that he no longer even has a soul. Don't ask me how he's still alive. He apparently takes stimulants to keep himself constantly awake because if he ever sleeps then Tz'arkan takes over.
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Yeah, not the kind of thing we want to face alone even with our equipement. I wouldn't say no to a few Light wizards and regiment of witchhunters.
 
Codex said:
It takes a certain kind of person to unironically say "with hate, all things are possible" with a straight face. No wonder he's one of those super rare people who managed to survive a Greater Daemon inside him for so long. In fact, I think it's mentioned that he no longer even has a soul. Don't ask me how he's still alive. He apparently takes stimulants to keep himself constantly awake because if he ever sleeps then Tz'arkan takes over.
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IIRC the daemon inside him escaped and took his soul with him, but Malus hunted the daemon down and took his soul back.
 
silentorphan said:
I'll gladly take zombie undergrads over Big (Tech) Corporations, though.
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I don't know how this got political, and I don't like it. :V

Moving on.
[X] Plan CoolPlanName

has my vote. yes, no potential for additional shinies, but also, our primary task here is not actually sabotaging Alric's credit-gathering efforts, its to make sure he doesn't find more details about Heidi and the whole business doesn't create enough ruckus to make someone else pay attention and investigate.

I agree, him failing is optimal ( for us ), because we are doing business with the current Lady Candidate, and him returning to position of power and prominence will be bad news for all our efforts to bring the Light Order into the project, but taking another risk and promising to fulfill something we will try to do anyway for additional rewards just strikes me as too opportunistic for my liking.
 
Sparsebeard said:
Also, a point that I haven't seen brought up is that NOT renegociating with Mira is actually the most suspicious thing to do if we end up interferring. Mira and any others that are aware of our agreement might end up wondering why we went up and above what was agreed for. Mira was shown to be a shrewd operator and us doing more than ahat was agreed for might enflamme her curiosity.
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It's not suspiscious. When Chaos got involved we had the grounds to forgo politics and join with Alaric. Doing more than what she asked when we found out about the situation is her duty as a Magister. People who think that we had ulterior motives in this scenario probably don't think of us well in the first place.
Sparsebeard said:
After all, if Alric can succeed it can still assuage his ego even if he had help. It also proves to others that he's not completely good for nothing. After all, considering his recent setbacks, Alric might even be pretty happy to get a partial win. Don't forget that at least one of the Unfahigers died under his care, if more die, it's a very bad look for him that Mira can take advantage of. He doesn't know that we have a vested interest in the case.
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He probably aims for a Great Deed. Getting half of that won't make him ingratiated. Talebheim is basically nowhere for the College I think, the assassinations should be old news that the Colleges should know about it. Alaric might have even been intentional in going where there's no other Magister presence so he could get full credit.
Sparsebeard said:
On the other hand, if we help him, we are appearing to be ready to compromise and put the good of the empire above all else. If anything it's more diplomatic than him learning that we interfered in his investigation without even talking to him. It's gonna hinder us quite a bit if we must do all of our investigation trying to stay hidden from the Patriarch of the order that specialises in revealing what is concealed while he's alert due to being on a mission.
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Fair, Mathilde could spin this.

On renegotiation:
Boney said:
[ ] Renegotiate with Mira
If you're going to have to interfere with Alric anyway, you might as well see what Mira is willing to offer for you to do so, and clear the way to bring in your own Light Wizards.
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This does two things:
1. A Better Deal than we have
2. Get our story straight

That all it does in the literal sense. This does not recruit Egrimm and Elrisse, saying that this will help in getting them on board while not wrong, is misleading.

This will help them get on board not because it is necessary for them to come, but because it comes from both of their practical-boss and literal-boss.

The better deal is for the sake of the waystone project, which we really really want. The deal is not for the investigation, this is because the initial deal was the exchange of help the Brights for helping the Project.

Saying that the Brights would be really helpful for the investigation would also be misleading. The recruited's resource is their bonus to rolls and their autonomous actions.
Boney said:
Anyone brought in will assist where appropriate and do their own zero-risk background investigations when they can.
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Keep in mind that we already know this much on turn one without Mathilde having to lift a finger because of delegation. Taking renegotiating without recruiting this turn already reduces their sum value.

Finally, obviously I know nothing now, but there was a substantial majority who didn't want Egrimm and Alric in the same action. I don't know if the whole Chaos situation changes everything but I'm assuming it's not.

I want to take the renegotiation action, but my dream scenario is only getting the better deal without using another action to recruit the Brights. There's 2 greed actions with this and plunder and I don't know how hard the mini-turn will be.
 
Raiseth said:
I agree, him failing is optimal ( for us ), because we are doing business with the current Lady Candidate, and him returning to position of power and prominence will be bad news for all our efforts to bring the Light Order into the project, but taking another risk and promising to fulfill something we will try to do anyway for additional rewards just strikes me as too opportunistic for my liking.
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It's not about Alric failing. If Alric fails, we also fail, we don't want that.

To me, the fact that the case is big enough that we can actually approach Alric without angering Mira is a plus. We get to interact with Alric which is good to get a measure of his character directly. If we can mitigate any ressentement on his part it would be great.

And if we work with Alric, it makes sense to renegotiate with Mira since we'll have plenty of time because we will inherit Alric's investigation. We'll also have plenty of time to do things we are better suited to do.

We pretty much get our cake and eat it too. Working with a former Supreme Patriarch and very potent Light Wizard. It pretty much a dream team up for such an investigation. We get sweet interactions with Egrimm's former boss and get a feel of him, potentially lessening future conflict. Worst thing that can happen is that we succeed to much and Alric gains to much renown but it's not a problem if we cleared it out with Mira before.

Nevermind the fact that if we DON'T renegotiate with Mira and decide to work with Alric, I think she's might be suspicious or at least intrigued of what motivates us to go above and beyond on that case when we already have our own monumental project.

[X] Plan Leveraging Our Strengths
-[X] Renegotiate with Mira
-[X] Approach Alric directly
-[X] Research: Underworld Turbulence

[X] Plan Renegotiation
[X] Plan Redshirt v1
 
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Sparsebeard said:
Worst thing that can happen is that we succeed to much and Alric gains to much renown but it's not a problem if we cleared it out with Mira before.
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It is a problem. Him gaining too much renown would mean solidifying his hold on his Magister Patriarch title, which means that if he wants, he can recall the Light Wizards that were detailed to the waystone project. Or, if he doesn't want to leave it bereft, assign much-less-helpful replacements in their place.
 
Thinking about it, I've decided I don't want to bring the Lights in into this investigation.

Not for any reasons about them not being necessary. I still think they would be incredibly useful.

I'm just tired of Horstmann. He's not a bad character by any means, but going back over how many interactions we've had with him and the actual contents of all of them...

I'm getting exhausted. There is such a thing as too much Horstmann. I hope we give him less screentime once all the Alric stuff is over with.
 
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