Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
@Boney I want to ask if I'm looking too deeply into this or if this might be something you intended. Here, Mathilde goes over the symbol for the "Father":

The symbol is the standard X for Ranald, but bisected horizontally in the middle, splitting it into a V and a chevron. Then there was talk about birds, and Doves are Shallya's symbol. I then remembered something. Aren't Birds often drawn as a V shape when simplified:
The chevron could be representing the bird flapping its wings downwards, and the V is when the bird's wings are facing upwards.

I think it would be a neat way of including Shallya into the imagery of the Father, but maybe I'm looking too much into it.

I'm not going to weigh in on individual theories, but there is a deeper meaning in the symbol.
 
"So, Gustav," Van Hal begins the meeting proper. "We've spoken at length of your plans to establish pistoliers in Stirland. I feel it will be a worthy addition to Stirland's forces, both in times of war and to keep the roads clear in times of piece. Work with Wilhelmina and Anton in arranging the importation of the firearms you'll need. Make sure there's close ties between the pistoliers and the Roadwardens - they'll be working hand-in-hand." Gustav looks pleased, but he's barely given an opportunity to express his thanks before Van Hal's moving on. "Anton, report."
@Boney, I just found an old typo while rereading the Stirland parts of the quest.
 
I'm not going to weigh in on individual theories, but there is a deeper meaning in the symbol.
Understandable. I didn't really want you to confirm the theory one way or the other so much as I wanted to know if I was looking into something that wasn't there or if there really was something behind the obvious in regards to the symbology there, so I appreciate the answer.
 
The dwarf quest thing is a bit of a joke, because how how much we've assimilated into dwarf culture.
To be frank, I don't see it as a joke at all. It is totally accurate to call this a Dwarf quest.
It started as a joke. Then Ranald made a joke by making it not a joke.

I believe that the tag 'this is a dwarf quest' specifically is part of a running joke. It started as the 'this is not an empire quest' tag which predates this quest and, from what I can tell, is used to mean that a quest is not intended to be a quest in which an empire is built. Then it got 'this is not a vampire quest' as a play on that during the "is Mathilde a vampire?" strain of thread madness. Then 'this is a dwarf quest' rounded out the trio when Mathilde made a home at K8P. Though I might be wrong about the intentions, the only tags I added were 'ck2', 'warhammer' and 'fantasy' right back at the start.
 
I believe that the tag 'this is a dwarf quest' specifically is part of a running joke. It started as the 'this is not an empire quest' tag which predates this quest and, from what I can tell, is used to mean that a quest is not intended to be a quest in which an empire is built. Then it got 'this is not a vampire quest' as a play on that during the "is Mathilde a vampire?" strain of thread madness. Then 'this is a dwarf quest' rounded out the trio when Mathilde made a home at K8P. Though I might be wrong about the intentions, the only tags I added were 'ck2', 'warhammer' and 'fantasy' right back at the start.
Ah, I agree that "This is a Dwarf quest" likely started as a joke, and the specific reason it existed was because of that running joke, but as a current descriptor I find it perfectly accurate to describe the current quest so I no longer see it as just a joke.

Mathilde is for all intents and purposes treated as a Dwarf by other Dwarfs. She is not biologically a Dwarf, and few of the Dwarfs that actually know her believe the "Dwarven soul" drivel, but she is still treated as they would any other Dwarf in good standing. Not only is she treated as a Dwarf, a significant chunk of the quest's runtime and presence was Dwarf focused, and even now, everything that Mathilde does in the story is affected by her time with the Dwarves. Even while working on the Waystone project, her time with the Dwarves enabled it and she still lives in a Dwarf hold and brings Dwarves over to the project.

This is a Dwarf quest might have started as a joke, but I don't think it's a joke anymore.
 
I believe that the tag 'this is a dwarf quest' specifically is part of a running joke. It started as the 'this is not an empire quest' tag which predates this quest and, from what I can tell, is used to mean that a quest is not intended to be a quest in which an empire is built. Then it got 'this is not a vampire quest' as a play on that during the "is Mathilde a vampire?" strain of thread madness. Then 'this is a dwarf quest' rounded out the trio when Mathilde made a home at K8P. Though I might be wrong about the intentions, the only tags I added were 'ck2', 'warhammer' and 'fantasy' right back at the start.
Are you kidding me?!

I thought 'this is not an empire quest' meant that it wasn't primarily about The Empire. I need to edit some tags, smh.
 
I'm not going to weigh in on individual theories, but there is a deeper meaning in the symbol.
Well I wasn't going to post it before and I feel like it is unlikely since the symbology is probably related to the daughters themselves, but my first thought when we learned the symbol was super simplified penis and vagina/womb symbols. (IIRC both those symbols have been used that way historically.)
 
So when will the tag "this is not an elf quest" be added?
The project is likely to take quite a while, probably in the realm of at least a decade and likely more, and at some point we're going to go on Elfcation, which Boney said would likely take as much RL time as the Karag Dum expedition. For the forseeable future, we're gonna be seeing a lot of Elves.
 
It started as the 'this is not an empire quest' tag which predates this quest and, from what I can tell, is used to mean that a quest is not intended to be a quest in which an empire is built.
Are you kidding me?!

I thought 'this is not an empire quest' meant that it wasn't primarily about The Empire. I need to edit some tags, smh.
At the very least that was the intent from the originating TBG quest. I think it has transcended beyond that though but I'll admit to not being familiar with that many quests currently listed under it.
 
At the very least that was the intent from the originating TBG quest. I think it has transcended beyond that though but I'll admit to not being familiar with that many quests currently listed under it.
The overwhelming majority of quests that currently use the tag are Warhammer quests, and I have a feeling that the reason they're using the tag is less of the fact that they're clarifying that their quest is not an Empire builder so much as it is advertising that the quest isn't focusing on Sigmar's Holy Empire (or for 40K, the Empire of Mankind).

I know a few people who don't like quests being centered on the Empire because it's the "generic human faction". I don't necessarily agree on that, but I can understand wanting to advertise that your quest isn't about that.
 
Oh boy, someone said something about Ranald's daughters! Time to speculate wildly on the basis of nearly zero information!
@Boney I want to ask if I'm looking too deeply into this or if this might be something you intended. Here, Mathilde goes over the symbol for the "Father":

The symbol is the standard X for Ranald, but bisected horizontally in the middle, splitting it into a V and a chevron. Then there was talk about birds, and Doves are Shallya's symbol. I then remembered something. Aren't Birds often drawn as a V shape when simplified:

The chevron could be representing the bird flapping its wings downwards, and the V is when the bird's wings are facing upwards.

I think it would be a neat way of including Shallya into the imagery of the Father, but maybe I'm looking too much into it.

I'm not going to weigh in on individual theories, but there is a deeper meaning in the symbol.
Now that we know the symbol has meaning, what could it mean? How will this effect our search for the daughters? I can think of a few general possibilities:

1. Division of Ranald: At its most basic the symbol is Ranald's cross, bisected. This bring to my mind Cython's comment about the Ellinili:
Ellinill budded off children as a path to power, splitting Them off from His individual facets[...]
It might be that the symbol is hinting to us that the daughters are the result of Ranald splitting Himself apart, giving some of His domains 'independence' as Ellinill did. It's not clear what this means regarding Ranald's authority over those domains - I think when Ellinill created Gods for specific types of disasters he still mantained some power over those concepts as the God of general disasters, so it might be possible for Ranald to for example let one of his daughters have domain over a specific kind of theft while still keeping the concept of theft in general. The main objection to this theory is that what Cython describes with Ellinill seems to be a kind of asexual reproduction, and in Ranald's case we know there was a partner involved. Maybe Shallya did something similar, and the two Gods combined their budded off offsprings to create a greater power?

Implications: If true, we would expect the daughters to have some connection to Ranald's domains, which...we kind of already do, so that doesn't change much. Maybe this implies that the two daughters should be connected to distinct facets of Ranald, just like the Ellinilli are Gods of distinct disasters?
Good or bad for Halétha?: Gotta ask the important questions here - how does this weigh on my pet theory? Well, if we assume this also applies to Shallya's domains, it wouldn't make sense for both daughters to have a connection to fertility, so that's a strike against Halétha and Haleth. On the other hand, if this applies only to Ranald, we would expect Haleth to be connected to Ranald in a way distinct from Halétha. Since we don't know much about Haleth as of now we can't really say anything one way or the other.

2. Ranald and Shallya, sitting in a tree: It might be that the symbol just symbolizes Ranald and Shallya's connection/cooperation in creating the daughters. Codex suggests that it might be a reference to Ranald's cross and Shallya's doves, thus creating a symbol of both Gods in one. Jreengus suggested it might refer to Ranald and Shallya's 'connection' in a more physical sense:
Well I wasn't going to post it before and I feel like it is unlikely since the symbology is probably related to the daughters themselves, but my first thought when we learned the symbol was super simplified penis and vagina/womb symbols. (IIRC both those symbols have been used that way historically.)

Implications: If true, it doesn't seem to provide any useful information. If it does symbolize biological reproduction as Jreengus suggested than it might imply that the daughters are 'biological' offsprings of Ranald and Shallya, the third of the possibilities raised in the conversation with Cython. But it might not - it could easily be purely metaphorical.
Good or bad for Halétha?: If it turns out this symbol does hint at a biological origin for the daughters, this is kind of bad for all possible theories, because we have very little information on this kind of thing and have no idea what it might imply. Otherwise it doesn't really change anything one way or the other.

3. Two cigars are just two cigars: It's just a V and a chevron. One symbol for each daughter. But what would a V symbolize? What would an inverted V symbolize?

Implications: If we come across any Goddess which has one of those symbols related to her, either directly like Ranald and crosses or in some metaphorical sense, we will have a good indication that we found the one we're looking for. But I can't think of any Goddess we are currently aware of for which this is true.
Good or bad for Halétha?: This depends on what the symbols end up standing for, I guess. I can't really think of any obvious meaning for either one, so I can't guess how much it would or wouldn't fit Halétha

4. An unexpected twist: The chevron symbolizes a mountain, while the V stands for Valaya. The Goddes of healing and fertility (from Shallya) and getting drunk (from Ranald, which has many temples which serve beer). It all fits!

Implications: We finally figured it out, the search is over.
Good or bad for Halétha?: Halétha probably isn't Valaya, but she could still be her sister.
 
and few of the Dwarfs that actually know her believe the "Dwarven soul" drivel,
I mean, we don't actually know that with any degree of certainty. A Dawi soul being stubborn enough that even after being denied a path to the Glittering Realm upon death, and being waylaid by some scoundrel so that they are forced to incarnate in an Umgi of all things nevertheless being stubborn enough to not only return to their people but overcome every conceivable obstacle to be not merely accepted but embraced could well resonate with the Dawi psyche.

Now you're probably right when it comes to the Dwarfs that know her really well, and I can imagine Gunnars in particular just wordlessly gesturing at the shadow, but Matty girl kind of knows a lot of dwarfs that we don't actually have that great a read on when it comes to their inner thoughts. Complicating things also with a couple of the dawi that really know her is the still mostly unknown to us fallout from the Kragg Ancestor Rune Incident.
 
Tbf i think it's more likely some dawi excuse Matty as "sometimes you need an obscure tool to get a job done."
 
I mean, we don't actually know that with any degree of certainty. A Dawi soul being stubborn enough that even after being denied a path to the Glittering Realm upon death, and being waylaid by some scoundrel so that they are forced to incarnate in an Umgi of all things nevertheless being stubborn enough to not only return to their people but overcome every conceivable obstacle to be not merely accepted but embraced could well resonate with the Dawi psyche.

Now you're probably right when it comes to the Dwarfs that know her really well, and I can imagine Gunnars in particular just wordlessly gesturing at the shadow, but Matty girl kind of knows a lot of dwarfs that we don't actually have that great a read on when it comes to their inner thoughts. Complicating things also with a couple of the dawi that really know her is the still mostly unknown to us fallout from the Kragg Ancestor Rune Incident.
The only meaningful interactions we've had with Dwarves after the whole soul thing was with Belegar and Thorek, neither of which expressed even a whiff of believing that. Thorek straight up called her an Umgi, when most Dwarves no longer consider her one, and Belegar got mad at the announcement and called it rubbish.

Our sample size isn't large, but it doesn't point towards blind acceptance from the Dwarves that Mathilde had any sort of meaningful interaction with since coming back.

EDIT: Also, I have no idea why you're including the Kragg incident. Mathilde was not affected by the Rune, that was the Undumgi. Putting aside whether that made their souls "Dwarven", it has nothing to do with Mathilde.
 
Last edited:
The overwhelming majority of quests that currently use the tag are Warhammer quests, and I have a feeling that the reason they're using the tag is less of the fact that they're clarifying that their quest is not an Empire builder so much as it is advertising that the quest isn't focusing on Sigmar's Holy Empire (or for 40K, the Empire of Mankind).

I know a few people who don't like quests being centered on the Empire because it's the "generic human faction". I don't necessarily agree on that, but I can understand wanting to advertise that your quest isn't about that.
That feels kinda disappointing :p

Edit: As an aside, tbh I feel the Empire is pretty far removed from most of what we see as far as generic fantasy human factions, their obviously German rather than English coding helps a lot.
 
Last edited:
That feels kinda disappointing :p

Edit: As an aside, tbh I feel the Empire is pretty far removed from most of what we see as far as generic fantasy human factions, their obviously German rather than English coding helps a lot.
Oh I 100% agree. The Empire never struck me as a generic faction. It's always felt like an interesting combination of factors and the interplay between all the complex systems that keep it running gives you an endless array of options to play with.

Another interesting factor is that the Empire isn't fully Germanic in nature. Nordland has heavy Norscan crossover, which is clearly Nordic influence. Ostland and Ostermark are influenced by Kislev and have adopted some of their culture as a result of crossover, and Kislev is obviously slavic in nature (I can't pinpoint the exact reference but I think it's dozens of nations jumbled together). Sylvania has a clear Romanian influence (the incredibly obvious transylvania reference).

All the areas of the Empire feel visually and atmospherically distinct, in geography, culture, in terms of the people, their mannerisms, what they produce and what they deal with. Averlanders are farmers living in plains with lots of horses and cows and produce good beer and wine, they get along with Dwarves and they protect the Empire from Greenskins. Wissenlanders are a dour religous folk living in the mountainside, contrasting with the cosmopolitcan, fast speaking intellectuals of Nuln. Stirlanders are a largely superstitous, rural people with strong faith and an obsession with ancestry. And so on and so on.

And this is focusing purely on the humans. Page 23 of Heirs of Sigmar says this:

"Let us take strength from our diversity. —Emperor Sigmar"

It's not just the diversity of cultures and tribes and ideas that Sigmar could have meant. The Halflings, Dwarves and now the Elves have all played a part in the Empire's history, and they all have a place in Imperial society (although the Elves have a more tenous one for the moment, I hope it gets better).

I too, dislike generic human factions. I just happen to think that the Empire is not one of those.
 
The only meaningful interactions we've had with Dwarves after the whole soul thing was with Belegar and Thorek, neither of which expressed even a whiff of believing that. Thorek straight up called her an Umgi, when most Dwarves no longer consider her one, and Belegar got mad at the announcement and called it rubbish.

Our sample size isn't large, but it doesn't point towards blind acceptance from the Dwarves that Mathilde had any sort of meaningful interaction with since coming back.

EDIT: Also, I have no idea why you're including the Kragg incident. Mathilde was not affected by the Rune, that was the Undumgi. Putting aside whether that made their souls "Dwarven", it has nothing to do with Mathilde.

You're trying to extrapolate a polling base of two of the leading contenders for the silver kickflip medal out to the majority of Dawi who could very well nod and say 'the ancestor conclave may not have showed their math because secrets, but I'm sure they ran the numbers before making an official pronouncement."


Running further down the likely list, Gotri and Ulthar would probably laugh themselves sick, Gunnars would shake his head and grumble at his lack of beard length meaning his disapproval of this nonsense carries insufficient weight. Kazador would probably just ponder the missed opportunity to set us up with one of his mortified sons again. Beyond that circle, we don't know enough to know what we don't know with enough certainty to make blanket pronouncements, and I could be entirely misreading Gotri 'Nuln Engineer in a Dawi body' Stoneheart's take.


And sure, it could just have been naked calculation that the weight of the lie on their souls was a necessary sacrifice to prevent an inferiority complex from causing a significant percentage of the dawi populace from taking Slayer oaths at the perception of their abject failure when an Umgi casually outdid all of the efforts of the Karaz Ankor, twice.


I'm including the Kragg incident because it is our one very definite in quest instance of the lines of what everyone 'knows' about Dawi being from the Glittering Realm while Umgi are from Morr's Garden to maybe not be quite so clearcut.
 
and Kislev is obviously slavic in nature (I can't pinpoint the exact reference but I think it's dozens of nations jumbled together)
I think it's mostly Russian, but there's definitely some Polish-ness in there (the Winged Lancers are the most prominent one, but some of the names as well)

I'm sure there's probably more in RotIQ, but I don't know enough about the tropes of the respective cultures to really have any idea what might have contributed what.
 
I think it's mostly Russian, but there's definitely some Polish-ness in there (the Winged Lancers are the most prominent one, but some of the names as well)

I'm sure there's probably more in RotIQ, but I don't know enough about the tropes of the respective cultures to really have any idea what might have contributed what.
Off the top of my head Praag is a rip off of the capital of the Czech Republic and the historic capital of Bohemia, Prague. In Realm of the Ice Queen, Koumiss is pretty common, likely as a result of Dolgan integration into Kislev because I believe it's said to be a Dolgan thing. Koumis obviously being a play on Kumis, fermented horse milk popular with Turkic and Mongol people from Central Asia. There's some serious Cossack influence, which is not just Russian but likely included several ethnicities, alongside the Polish influence. I will not say that I am a historical expert on this stuff, but I think while the Russian influence is strong, it's not the only influence.

The combination between Gospodar, Ungol, Roppsmen, Dolgan and other cultures means that Kislev is a bit of a mishmash.
 
@Boney

How do you type up the quest and keep track of all your notes, and how do you export it in a format compatible with the forum? Do you just have a single page in google documents/word with the story and another with the notes, or do you use something more intricate?

Sorry if you already answered this. I would have PM'ed you, but I imagine there are many others who might be curious.
 
@Boney

How do you type up the quest and keep track of all your notes, and how do you export it in a format compatible with the forum? Do you just have a single page in google documents/word with the story and another with the notes, or do you use something more intricate?

Sorry if you already answered this. I would have PM'ed you, but I imagine there are many others who might be curious.
I know the feeling, I was using nested folders full of .txt files before Zim clicked for me.
Link for Zim

Only 90 pages ago :V
 
Voting is open
Back
Top