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I want to emphasize that this is pretty different. We aren't giving a gift to Ranald, we're showing him what we had done and inviting him to pass judgment upon our actions and committing to submit to it.

Whether that results in Ranald giving us a gift, forbidding us from researching this, forbidding us from using the AV, giving us the high-five to go ahead, or any other possible result of his judgment it's for Him to decide.

But in any case, it's very different from gifting something to a friend.
Yeah it's not a gift. It's accidentally commiting Copyright Infringement on Ranald and going to him and saying sorry buddy here you go, have your fingerprints back. Of course it's "submitting" to him, that thing is explicitly described as "Ranaldian Energy that he did not create". He should have the right to decide what to do with it because we made it off of him accidentally without his consent.
 
I want to emphasize that this is pretty different. We aren't giving a gift to Ranald, we're showing him what we had done and inviting him to pass judgment upon our actions and committing to submit to it.

Whether that results in Ranald giving us a gift, forbidding us from researching this, forbidding us from using the AV, giving us the high-five to go ahead, or any other possible result of his judgment it's for Him to decide.

But in any case, it's very different from gifting something to a friend.
So, giving something to a friend, while also revealing that, in order to make said gift, you snuck into their home and rummaged through all their closets for gift ideas.
 
Like, just think about it. Statistically there would be around 2 people or so in a group of 6000 who manifest magical abilities of any degree, according to statistics. If you check every single Undumgi to determine whether any of them have magical ability, and you come up blank, does that prove anything? No.

From a research standpoint, the pool is far too small to determine any patterns. If you try to present some sort of paper saying "these guys were affected by Dwarf magic and none of them came up positive for magical abilities after I checked them" a swift rebuttal can come up through academia that says "the chances are 1/3k and you have a sample size of 6000, that proves nothing". No real way to detect changes unless we could have scrutinised their souls before and after the Rune affected them and used a control group or something. Don't think Kragg is willing to cooperate on that.
It'd be even less useful than that.

1/3,000 is the statistics for a from-birth population, the Undumgi are self-selected for adult males. There would be the assumption that some theoretical potential-wizards would have already discovered their abilities before they were in a position to join the expedition.
 
Truth voters: I have Faith that this will work out. Ranald will approve. The risks will be worth it. We can afford to pay the costs, whatever they might be.
Faith voters: The only Truth we know is that nothing is certain. Ranald's reaction cannot be known until tested. The risks are too great. We may not be able or be willing to pay the costs, whatever they might be.

This vote is all kinds of flipped upside-down. I thought Faith was supposed to be about giving blind trust, and Truth about being careful and cautious. Instead, even though Truth is the quote-unquote "certain" choice and Faith the mystery box, the discussion for either of them feels like it's opposite day. Leave it to Mathile and her Ulgu filled mind to get the two concepts completely twisted up in each other.
The worst thing about being on the "losing" side of a sudden surge is that my mind keeps finding various bad or wrong reasons why people are voting, except that the vast majority of said reasons don't actually exist and the few that do are in fact perfectly valid reasons to vote that I just happen to disagree with.

Leaving me to sulk in the corner like a petulant child, completely sure that someone has to be cheating or doing things wrong, people can't just want something other than him.
Honestly, the longer I participate in quests the more I dislike super close votes. I like it when votes change due to someone making a good argument, and I like most contests where multiple options are in the running for the top slot. But when things get close to the wire and it becomes an extremely close vote, the pressure just ratchets up way too high. So often it makes me feel like if I made just that one extra bit of effort, I might make the decisive post that makes the difference between winning and loosing. And then when I've put in that high-effort post, and the vote is still extremely close hours later, I feel like I'm once again just one more post away from somehow making the difference. That cool thing I want is simultaneously just-in-reach, but also might get yanked out of my hands any moment. And in between all that pressure, the fun of a quest vote is the part that gets squeezed out.

For this vote, the 'sudden surge' here feels extremely significant. But it's only about 5-10 new voters in a vote that has over 500 of them. It is objectively about a 1-2% increase in votes. But it can feel like falling off the edge of a cliff. (And when it happens again in a few hours, it's like falling off a cliff again.)
 
692 Votes is the max, there is a ways to go to that.
What had 692? I thought the record was from the vote over Waystone Project vs. other jobs, which was 663 votes.

I'm not quite ready to start writing yet, but I'll break with tradition and call it here after one day of moratorium and three days of voting.

Adhoc vote count started by BoneyM on Mar 9, 2021 at 7:22 AM, finished with 4113 posts and 663 votes.
 
So, giving something to a friend, while also revealing that, in order to make said gift, you snuck into their home and rummaged through all their closets for gift ideas.

I just feel like framing it in a friend context is wrong because if Truth wins we'd be doing this with other gods that are not Ranald and definitively not our friends, like Khaine or Sigmar or Gork and Mork or other gods in general.
 
The most thing about big important votes, to me at least, is to not take them too seriously. Yes, they matter for the character, for the thread that you've invested a lot of time and interest into, but if you put too much of yourself into them? You're gonna get burned. So step back, and keep at least some distance between yourself and the outcome- and always be ready to be silly about it if the opportunity arises.
 
Hmm, what argument can I make to sway things...

This research might have (I won't say it would have, nothing is certain here, but it very likely might have) been useful for unraveling the Karag Dum mystery. Sure would have been helpful to better know how to recognize Divine Magics and the differences between them back then. So if anyone consider the Karag Dum mystery an annoying pebble in their shoe (like I do), and would love to be better equipped for the off-chance we run into such scenarios in the future, consider voting for Truth.

(Tbh I still haven't fully let that whole fiasco go)
 
Was it really that bad? The mission rescued a doomed dwarfhold. That was it's optimal win condition. Sure, it wasn't the dwarfhold we meant to save, and two would have been even better, but it's still a mayor win.
There was a lot of debate about staying to try and figure out what the hell was up with Callum. In the end being cautious about approaching and then staying with the rest of the expedition won out, but a lot of people wanted to stay longer, or try to get closer.
 
Was it really that bad? The mission rescued a doomed dwarfhold. That was it's optimal win condition. Sure, it wasn't the dwarfhold we meant to save, and two would have been even better, but it's still a mayor win.
Oh no, I don't care that we couldn't rescue everyone, the moment Morghur showed up we all pretty much wrote Dum off as unsalvageable for understandable reasons beyond our control (read: Morghur).

The fact that we still don't know what happened, and voted to leave rather than stay and find out, was what nettled me (and still does, slightly).

Mysteries are serious business for me. Passing up chances to dispel ignorance, chances that may never come by again, is something I do not like. At all.

I really want Truth to win. Not because I think we'll get anything tangible out of it. I just think that more knowledge is inherently good, in and of itself.
 
Hmm, what argument can I make to sway things...

I'm not sure how many people this may sway, or if it'll sway anyone at all. But yesterday I made a post about things we could get from following the Truth option. It didn't get much attention with all the debate yesterday, but I feel like quoting myself may be worth it in case it convinces any of the new voters.

So I've been thinking about what could Truth offer besides just allowing us to differentiate the gods, this is what I've come up (from more likely to less likely, according to solely to my opinion):

  • A greater familiarity with all kinds of Gods, allowing us to know what gods are paying attention to us, and maybe even if they're paying it to another person nearby.
  • A greater understanding of the Gods and the Divine, allowing us to create a similar enchantment to the ball that Algard threw us, only this would shine in reaction to a certain divine frequency.
  • The same as above but for Divine Artifacts.
  • A greater understanding of the Gods and the Divine, allowing us to create enchantments that prevent Divine Vision and/or their interference (pretty useful to lock up Chaos Artifacts and hide information from the Chaos Gods)
  • A greater understanding of the Gods and the Divine, allowing us to free Querch or more Skaven from the Horned Rat.
  • A greater understanding of the Gods and the Divine, allowing us to develop a spell that blocks divine interference in an area.
  • A greater understanding of the Gods and the Divine, allowing us to know how they cast magic without any risk of miscasting and maybe reproducing it.
  • A greater understanding of the Gods and the Divine, allowing us to know how is it possible for Divine Energy to mix without creating Dhar (like it happens with Heidi) and if it's possible for Arcane Magic to do the same (although I guess this would be Theurgy).
 
I can't understand this vote, I'd stab Ranald in the kidneys, Kick Belegar in the groin and steal Johann's new arm, for a few Paragraphs from Boney about the nature of the Divine. And I love those three.

Like, to me, one of the best parts of this quest, is seeing Boney take the mess of potential that is Warhammer Fantasy lore, and with effort befitting a historian, deciphering it and weaving it into one complete tapestry. In my opinion that is his greatest strength as a Writer/Quest Master. So the idea of not jumping at the chance to see him work on Deep Lore and the Nature of Divinity, is just, incomprehensible to me. It'd be like turning down a chance to see Torroar write their take on Grimgor Ironhide Vs Archaon the Everchosen, or Soulcake detailing the forging of Widow-maker. The chance to see someone so skilled work what is arguably their specialty is too good an opportunity to pass up.

But what can ya do?
 
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Unless they aren't.

It's a rune to get in touch with your ancestor gods.

What if they all got a solid boost of SIGMAR (TM) and are now much more likely to develop divine miracle casters.
Magical and divine casters are the same thing, soul-wise. It's just the power source they learn to draw on that differs.
 
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