It glows with the energy of Gazul's flame, not that of Gazul Himself.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The record was 692 for 'what is the next project'. I think this is now a solid second vote though.
You know as much as I am excited for truth I have to say I love that this quest can have such close votes with so many players. This is really a mark of how well written it is not just as a narrative but specifically as a quest.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Was rereading some things, and noticed two opportunities that Truth could open up. One, we could probably rope in Cython, given his shared interest in unraveling the secrets of the gods, general lack of piety and god-fear that might otherwise make him touchy, and complete isolation from anyone who he'd have to dedicate time to keeping it a secret from. When a dragon does things, it's just dragon-things. It would be good to have a proper research project with him. And two, we could look into the deities of Sylvania and Stirland in our hunt for proof of concept; Manhavok, Fenn, and so on rather than anything touchy like the Ancestor Gods or Sigmar's pantheon. They're isolated and unknown, and based in a province where we have a long history. We have plenty of excuses to visit, all the privacy we could want, they're mostly forgotten disconnected from the Empire's gods so even if something did go horrifically wrong there's little chance of anyone noticing or the kerfuffle bouncing over to good neighbor Sigmar or anything similar, and any potential retaliation is liable to be neutered just by their weakness, they don't have much of anything in the way of a clergy that could antagonize us, as long as we don't get found out what clergy they do have could probably easily be diplomanced by us...
- Location
- Leeds
To be clear for everyone: I don't regret reading the Liber Mortis but we haven't done anything with it. We don't need a new research tree.
We still haven't really done anything with either of the previous bits of forbidden knowledge
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.Apparition binding you mean? That is because people want to finish AV and then publish. I guess in that sense negative results are still results and we can at the very least move on from AV to other things.
We still haven't really done anything with either of the previous bits of forbidden knowledge
We didn't read the Liber Mortis to learn how to mess with Skaven.
A huge bonus that we cannot use in front of Imperial and possibly just generally non chaos magic users or they'll start asking questions like "Where you just manipulating that Dhar?" and "How did you know that would happen?"
Pretty sure no, we've published anti vampire papers based on what that one vampire necromancer could do. Which I think was unrelated entirely.
However we can't publish anything from the Liber Mortis without having to answer a lot of awkward questions about how we learnt a thing.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Don't think you can handle it?
Amd if we players do go looking for the truth, should we mention to Boney, because it is relevant to his area of concern or might he prefer that we not do that, so as to allow him plausable deniability? Or would he be happer to be told that we did find out answer, and then we leave it up to him if he wants to be told what that answer is?The question now is, what do we do about it?
Do we search for the truth of why it happened, or do we have faith that it's not a big deal?
Why faith sucks #217.
All the best things are pinatas.
note, I'm making a playful dig at the concept of of things not being pinatas in general, not the vote option 'Faith'
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Yes, yes we did. I distinctly recall making the argument, just as I did for anti-necromancy work which we used it for.
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
Because they are utterly unsuited to the main reason we wanted them, which was as a pseudo-AI for a sevirroscope. That took a lot of wind out of their sails. The other possible application, as an Ulgu version of the Golden Hounds, isn't a pressing need at this time, unlike the last time we made a spell with Rite of Way. There's also no solid consensus on which apparition to go after. Red riders are popular, to make a version of Nazgul, and I even wrote an omake featuring such, but there are other apparitions which have been brought up as possibilities.
The main reason though, in my opinion, is that there isn't really anyone pushing for it, in the same way that, say, Tongs or now Divine AV was pushed for.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Truth
Seems interesting enough, also I do wonder if you can make a fingerprint of a god by their divine magic turning untyped aether energy to their power, then if you got one from a minor daemon would that signature be an individual daemon or just the chaos god they came from?
How minor a spirit can you fingerprint.
If you capture a fingerprint of a minor nature spirit say a dryad then feed it power can you artificially create a more powerful spirit?
Who knows I'm curious to find out.
Seems interesting enough, also I do wonder if you can make a fingerprint of a god by their divine magic turning untyped aether energy to their power, then if you got one from a minor daemon would that signature be an individual daemon or just the chaos god they came from?
How minor a spirit can you fingerprint.
If you capture a fingerprint of a minor nature spirit say a dryad then feed it power can you artificially create a more powerful spirit?
Who knows I'm curious to find out.
- Location
- Leeds
I went to check. We did:
So I guess I stand corrected there.
Still looking up when we actually read the liber mortis to figure the other bit.
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I could see Rite of Way working well with an apparition. Specifically the Handmaiden, as the wiki says they enter from doorways, windows, and other portals, they must have a sense for bondaries(doorways, windows, and portals) and that sense could be trained towards breaks in the terrain, maybe. The Handmaiden would be bound to the fog, would identify breaks in the terrain within that fog, and would induce Skywalks over those breaks within the fog, hopefully just before something crosses it.
If we ever want to introduce the use of apparitions to the Grey College, there will be a need for spells that use them.
If we ever want to introduce the use of apparitions to the Grey College, there will be a need for spells that use them.
Well I think it depends on how likely such a spirit is to leave its power lying around outside itself, to collect fingerprints there have to be traces. The reason this works at all is that there are two degrees of separation. It goes:
- God -> Item. Here the god can sense what is done directly to the item because it is in a sense a part of them, we have seen that with the coin and with the divine challenges like the altar of Stormfells, if you try to crack a magic item open for God juice odds are you are fighting the God.
- Item -> AV Imprint. This makes the living and controlled power of the item into dead power, of the same kind but which the god did not put there and thus has no control over
- AV Imprint -> Crystal. This is so you can actually preserve the information, in terms of power it is artificial holy water, but unlike holy water it keeps more of the specificity of the god which can be read and used
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Thinking about it, Truth doesn't preclude further research into combining AV with divine power as has been suggested.
Truth research requires the combination of four things. Mathilde's astonishingly keen Windsight, AV, Aethyricly sensitive recording crystals, and a divine relic. Without all of those things, it's not possible.
That means that, even if we take the Truth path, we should still be able to do things like give a spellcasting priest a jug of AV, ask them to channel their god's power into it, and see if their god can produce a larger than normal miracle thanks to not having to push power through the bottleneck of the priest's soul. That in no way reveals that Mathilde can fingerprint the gods, or even hints at it.
As a result, there isn't one of the opportunity costs that's being suggested by some people.
This kind of side research might also mean that the gods have more reason to forgive Mathilde if she is caught fingerprinting them, as she's also the source of something that can significantly empower their mortal agents.
Truth research requires the combination of four things. Mathilde's astonishingly keen Windsight, AV, Aethyricly sensitive recording crystals, and a divine relic. Without all of those things, it's not possible.
That means that, even if we take the Truth path, we should still be able to do things like give a spellcasting priest a jug of AV, ask them to channel their god's power into it, and see if their god can produce a larger than normal miracle thanks to not having to push power through the bottleneck of the priest's soul. That in no way reveals that Mathilde can fingerprint the gods, or even hints at it.
As a result, there isn't one of the opportunity costs that's being suggested by some people.
This kind of side research might also mean that the gods have more reason to forgive Mathilde if she is caught fingerprinting them, as she's also the source of something that can significantly empower their mortal agents.
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I think on the scale gods exist on the buff from a few gallons of AV is not going to matter that much. I mean hell for the most part they do not care about individual spellcasting priests that much, to judge by how often they get smited in the middle of casting (wrath of the gods) or are allowed to fight and kill each other. I mean sure if AV is used to save the flame of Ulric or something I could see it mattering, but if you help Jon the priest as he smashes some random beastmen Ulric is unlikely to care that much
I was thinking of using it in things like consecration rituals, or for divine tug of wars like the one that Ranald had with Stromfels. AV might not matter at all in the Aethyr itself, but the gods seem to be limited in how much power they can squeeze through a mortal worlshippers soul, which is why divine spells are usually weaker than arcane ones.
In many scenarios it may not matter, but in others a favoured priest having the ability to supercharge their god's miracles might be very useful.
Alternatively I could see AV being used to feed a divine servant power to allow them to remain manifest in their material World longer.
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My point was that individual moments in the mortal world that would matter to the gods are rare and we cannot predict them. So we can hand a jug of AV to some priest but we have to real way to tell if that fellow is going to be in a position to do an act that really matters to his god with the AV being relevant to that.
Thought I'd compose a good faith argument for Faith (pun intended because I'm not a coward).
If we sacrifice the crystal to Ranald, we are proving that we believe that preserving the Mysteries and Secrets of the Gods is more important than the personal satisfaction of discovering the fundamental Laws that the universe is governed by. It shows that we have Trust in Them, and more importantly, it shows that They can Trust in us to act as Their agent on the mortal plane, without asking silly questions like "why", "what" or "how" ("where" and "when" are probably fine though).
Everybody says to have Faith in the Gods, to Believe in Them. This act, this sacrifice, will prove that They can have Faith in us. To have a God that Believes in us? That is a powerful thing, and there are few who can claim such a privilege.
If we sacrifice the crystal to Ranald, we are proving that we believe that preserving the Mysteries and Secrets of the Gods is more important than the personal satisfaction of discovering the fundamental Laws that the universe is governed by. It shows that we have Trust in Them, and more importantly, it shows that They can Trust in us to act as Their agent on the mortal plane, without asking silly questions like "why", "what" or "how" ("where" and "when" are probably fine though).
Everybody says to have Faith in the Gods, to Believe in Them. This act, this sacrifice, will prove that They can have Faith in us. To have a God that Believes in us? That is a powerful thing, and there are few who can claim such a privilege.
No question there, that is a powerful boon... we have seen it in action. The question is to what degree Faith can/will enhance that, or conversely if you think Ranald really would be upset to what level do you think Ranald will strip that from us.
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
Predicting it now, prudence will make a last minute comeback.
Well, that's always the risk when you place yourself in the Hands of the Ineffable.
Look at sailors—Manann has issued them a long list of contradictory tenants to follow, and if you break them, he will sink your ship without mercy. Sailors just have to have Faith that Manann will protect them this time.
In my opinion, Ranald is a much nicer God than Manann, but the risk of Faith will always be there.